WeedSexWeightsShakes
Well-Known Member
$180...no thanks
The far red thread
- Thread starter Rahz
- Start date
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Could anyone recommend me some decent far red diodes from digikey? Their search engine is a head ache.
Want to do end of day treatment for the new led room we are setting up. It will have 2 cannopies, about 2m x 1.2m each or 4x6,5 in feet.
Im aIlready getting some stuff from digikey so wanna get the far red at the same time to save on shipping. Looking for a simple setup, no-soldering connections and star-type diodes. But digikeys search engine is less than helpfull.
Want to do end of day treatment for the new led room we are setting up. It will have 2 cannopies, about 2m x 1.2m each or 4x6,5 in feet.
Im aIlready getting some stuff from digikey so wanna get the far red at the same time to save on shipping. Looking for a simple setup, no-soldering connections and star-type diodes. But digikeys search engine is less than helpfull.
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/optoelectronics/led-lighting-color/125?keywords=Cree+xp-e&sort=&pv40=970 I'm unsure if they have the solderless ones with the starboard attached..
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Those all look like no solderless connection and no star.
Im not really picky, anything from digi which will be easy to setup, like glueing or thermaltape to mount and no soldering for connecting power will do.
Any other suggestions, maybe the all-knowing @Randomblame?
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
I'm unsure if digikey sells the solderless ones tbh. Rapidled does for like 3$
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
Here is the one mounted on the starboard I havent found solderless ones.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/opulent-americas/XPEFAR-L1-0000-00601-SB01/1672-1057-ND/6012744
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Those look much better but not solderless. I have a backup plan which is based in Eu where i am but would like to take advantage of getting free shipping on digikey where im allready getting some stuff.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Sure of course, lol!
Ebay! 25$/10pcs, 601 bin, but not solderless..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-Cree-XPE-Far-Red-730nm-LED-1-9V-2-4V-350mA-1000mA-20mm-PCB-Board/322722116845?hash=item4b23bcb4ed:g:txsAAOSwKUhZsUG5
or solderless, 701bin, but not that cheap..
https://www.rapidled.com/solderless-cree-xp-e-far-red-led/
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Looks like digi doesnt have what i need, will look into led-tech.de and hope for not too bad shipping fees. @Randomblame,
4 of these per m2 should work for getting enough spread?
https://led-tech.de/en/OSRAM-Oslon-SSL-120-Far-Red-Plug-and-Light-Star-Horticulture
How many Umols to complete the switch to night mode, like 3000 per m2? (Reading back this thread that nr seems a bit high...)
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Randomblame
Well-Known Member
No, numbers are not too high!
The website says each SSL120 diode produce a min. of 250mW@350mA. As fas as I know the horticulture series is at least 275mW, hmm!. Well, that doesn' matter much. With 4 diodes it would be 1 or 1,1PAR/w far-red. QER for far-red is ~6μMol/j so you get 6 or 6,6μMol/s PPF depending on which min. output we use, in the end it is 6 or 6,6μMol/s/m²(-wall loss).
Let's take this 6μMol/s nevertheless to keep it simple.
So how many seconds with 6μMol each are needed to reach 2000-4000μMols?
333sec./5,5min. are ~2000μMols, 500sec./8,3min. are ~3000 and 666sec./11min. are ~4000μMols. Calculated with 275mW min. output it would be 300, 450 and 600sec..
Drive them harder @700mA and you need only half the amount of time to get the same amount of far-red.
PhyFr reacts really quick and there is no need to increase the length of the treatment, what counts are the amount of photones in this wavelength.
The website says each SSL120 diode produce a min. of 250mW@350mA. As fas as I know the horticulture series is at least 275mW, hmm!. Well, that doesn' matter much. With 4 diodes it would be 1 or 1,1PAR/w far-red. QER for far-red is ~6μMol/j so you get 6 or 6,6μMol/s PPF depending on which min. output we use, in the end it is 6 or 6,6μMol/s/m²(-wall loss).
Let's take this 6μMol/s nevertheless to keep it simple.
So how many seconds with 6μMol each are needed to reach 2000-4000μMols?
333sec./5,5min. are ~2000μMols, 500sec./8,3min. are ~3000 and 666sec./11min. are ~4000μMols. Calculated with 275mW min. output it would be 300, 450 and 600sec..
Drive them harder @700mA and you need only half the amount of time to get the same amount of far-red.
PhyFr reacts really quick and there is no need to increase the length of the treatment, what counts are the amount of photones in this wavelength.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your endless helpfullness.
KonopCh
Well-Known Member
Citizen 1212 3000K 80 CRI has enough 660nm for Emerson effect? So if I add 730nm diodes to that, I get enough for Emerson effect? And drive them (730nm) 5-10 minutes after light off for faster finish also?
Or that COBs has enough of both nm and Emerson effect is already running?
Or that COBs has enough of both nm and Emerson effect is already running?
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
The emerson effect takes place at 680nm and 700nm.
The EOD treatment is completely seperate from the emerson effect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Head2HeadMG/comments/2nt3hu/far_red_light_the_emerson_effect_and_phytochrome/
KonopCh
Well-Known Member
Some says 660, some 670, some 680... NCBI (science library, not Reddit) says it's starting at 670nm... and with far red with 680-720. Anyway, I am asking if those COBs has enough or how much watts/umols I need of each spectrum?
I know EOD is separated.
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
I understand but the paper I linked shows that far red >710nm photosynthesis greatly decreases.
And Emerson is the one that wrote the paper, just because the guy from reddit is explaining it. The paper is in the link.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC405990/pdf/plntphys00473-0065.pdf
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
Emerson, and follow up research in the early 60's, all acknowledged that photosynthesis drops off VERY rapidly above 700nm (see Figure 1 in this paper by Emerson), and quantum yield at 710nm is typically charted around 10% or less of quantum yield at 660nm, and 1% at 720. It tails off to a negligible number beyond that. A couple people have pointed to an article from 1964 that suggests the Emerson Effect was shown at a wavelength of 721 or 730nm (see Table 1). Actually the more important figure from this paper is Figure 2, which shows the photosynthesis rapidly dropping off when long wavelength light is used, but the addition of 653nm light can counter this drop off.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Very nice read
I dont think nobody knows for sure but a few people have tried and tinkered with far red spectrum and found something they like.
Growmau5 used 3000k 80cri and added about about 15w 660nm and 5w 730nm per m² and some blues, dont remember what or how much, and was happy with that, no major stretch on his plants.
Stardustsailor, a very respected member who isnt really on the forum anymore recomended 2 parts 3000k 90 cri 1 part 3000k 80cri. He was using bridgelux cobs i believe.
All this to the best of my recollection.
Randomblame, uses a 1/3 3000k 90cri 2/3 3000 80cri i think, but ill let him answer for himself.
Dawg i think he used farreds in order to be able to flower with 5000k cause he wanted his sativas shorter, and got some results. In the end it depends what you want to do.
But this is only people and opinions. If you want scientific statements it gets harder. Broadening the spectrum in to the far red section seems to improve performance especially if you can control intensity and if you have, or are able to, balance of near red and far red.
Aolelon
Well-Known Member
Yea randomblame is using a mixture of 80cri strips with 90cri cobs. From what I can see he is having great results. I was just going off what I read showing far red>700nm falls off pretty significantly, but if people are showing different resultsVery nice read
I dont think nobody knows for sure but a few people have tried and tinkered with far red spectrum and found something they like.
Growmau5 used 3000k 80cri and added about about 15w 660nm and 5w 730nm per m² and some blues, dont remember what or how much, and was happy with that, no major stretch on his plants.
Stardustsailor, a very respected member who isnt really on the forum anymore recomended 2 parts 3000k 90 cri 1 part 3000k 80cri. He was using bridgelux cobs i believe.
All this to the best of my recollection.
Randomblame, uses a 1/3 3000k 90cri 2/3 3000 80cri i think, but ill let him answer for himself.
Dawg i think he used farreds in order to be able to flower with 5000k cause he wanted his sativas shorter, and got some results. In the end it depends what you want to do.
But this is only people and opinions. If you want scientific statements it gets harder. Broadening the spectrum in to the far red section seems to improve performance especially if you can control intensity and if you have, or are able to, balance of near red and far red.
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KonopCh
Well-Known Member
Yea, those members are only great growers like you said. I can tell myself that I get great yield/GPW/whatever too. But as person who wants to know how things works, words like "great yield", "great results"... are not enough.
But as you said, science is other story and I wanted to know about science. So measurable data which can be replicated hundred of times. I guess we are not there yet amd there is a lot of work to do for scientists...
But as you said, science is other story and I wanted to know about science. So measurable data which can be replicated hundred of times. I guess we are not there yet amd there is a lot of work to do for scientists...