How many Neoliberals in the Democratic Party before the Democratic Party is a Neoliberal party?

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
No, there are plenty of undeniable, verified facts in that post. Some opinions are in there too that are backed by facts but you could pose an an alternative argument except you can't because you are you..
Why do you support campaign finance reform if you believe money doesn't influence politics?
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Should I respond to a made up argument or just ignore it?
You believe in campaign finance reform, correct?

You also believe corporate/PAC/or special interest money does not influence a politicians decisions when it comes to their vote, correct?

You can't simultaneously hold both of these beliefs unless you support campaign finance reform for some other reason than it corrupts politicians


So why don't you tell me why you support campaign finance reform, while at the same time believing that the money outside interests donate to politicians campaigns doesn't affect the votes they make in congress?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You believe in campaign finance reform, correct?

You also believe corporate/PAC/or special interest money does not influence a politicians decisions when it comes to their vote, correct?

You can't simultaneously hold both of these beliefs unless you support campaign finance reform for some other reason than it corrupts politicians


So why don't you tell me why you support campaign finance reform, while at the same time believing that the money outside interests donate to politicians campaigns doesn't affect the votes they make in congress?
Campaign laws can't change until Democrats are in power. I don't see how foregoing campaign contributions will help Democrats win seats when Republicans will legally accept any and all.

The rest of your post is about how we can't trust Democrats to pass comprehensive campaign finance reform when they can. Should I remind you that when it came up in 2014, every Democratic Party Senator supported the bill? If that doesn't convince you then nothing will.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Campaign laws can't change until Democrats are in power. I don't see how foregoing campaign contributions will help Democrats win seats when Republicans will legally accept any and all.

The rest of your post is about how we can't trust Democrats to pass comprehensive campaign finance reform when they can. Should I remind you that when it came up in 2014, every Democratic Party Senator supported the bill? If that doesn't convince you then nothing will.
Address the substance of the post you quoted

Answer the question; Why do you believe in reforming the campaign finance system if you don't believe it corrupts politicians?

There's only one reason to support campaign finance reform;
because it corrupts politicians.. So why don't you tell everyone why you believe in campaign finance reform when you don't believe unlimited donations to a campaigns super PAC influences a politicians positions?
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
What universal healthcare bill has Pelosi signed on to?

If you believe corporate/PAC/special interest donations do not influence politicians votes, why do you support campaign finance reform?

Sanders' campaign and actions after the election have shifted the Democratic party left. Because of him, a majority of Democrats (85%) support universal healthcare, as well as more than 60% of Independents and 52% of Republicans, meaning the majority of Americans across party lines, and Sanders remains the most popular politician in the country according to aggregate polling, for good reason; his positions are popular among the people


1. it subverts democracy
2. it benefits the Republican party

It objectively influences votes in government

Republicans are better at it



Republican voters largely support corporate/PAC/special interest money, so their politicians are free to accept as much as they can raise, which usually results in them out raising their Democratic opponent. Democratic voters largely oppose corporate/PAC/special interest money, so their politicians have to toe the line between their constituents interests and their corporate donors interests since they often conflict with each other.

The only politicians who support campaign finance reform are the ones who don't accept corporate/PAC/special interest money

Name 2 moderates who reject corporate/PAC/special interest donations and 2 progressives who do

What "local issues"? What evidence shows voters are most interested in countering Trump's actions? What do you base this off?

Every poll I've seen, voters number one issue is universal healthcare, because of Bernie Sanders' campaign


That's probably because you're uninformed and only absorb establishment media. 23 candidates endorsed by Justice Democrats have already won their elections and are going on to the general or to congress.. within 2 years of being established
+rep:clap:
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Address the substance of the post you quoted

Answer the question; Why do you believe in reforming the campaign finance system if you don't believe it corrupts politicians?

There's only one reason to support campaign finance reform;
because it corrupts politicians.. So why don't you tell everyone why you believe in campaign finance reform when you don't believe unlimited donations to a campaigns super PAC influences a politicians positions?
I don't think Wyden, Merkely and DeFazio, my legislators in Congress are corrupt. Some politicians are corrupt but not all or even most.

We need to reform campaign finance laws because the current system gives lobbyists and wealthy donors too much access when laws are written. I want to end their access and influence.

This is too nuanced for you.
 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
AKA corruption
this is too nuanced for you.

Our system is corrupted by laws drafted with undue influence by lobbyists and wealthy people but that wasn't what you asked.

You asked if I believed it corrupts politicians. To that I say "no". The people I support, Wyden, Merkely and DeFazio aren't corrupt.

Do I need to remind you that every Democratic Senator in 2014 including Wyden supported cloture to end the Republican fillibuster of Bernie's bill to repeal the Citizen's United ruling? Republicans all voted to sustain the fillibuster and they blocked Bernie's bill. The only reason we don't have a reformed campaign financing system is because of Republicans. If you want to reform the system, reform the law first. That means getting Democrats into power.

Absent a Democratic majority in the House and super majority in the senate, the six or eight Progressive(TM) congressmen in 2019 won't be able to change the laws either.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
How can lobbyists or special interests hold influence without politicians?
I'm not answering any more leading questions. What's your point?

As I said before, I don't think the people I support are corrupt, I think they are stuck with a corrupt system. Peter DeFazio, the rep in my district is an example of why I say this is too nuanced for you.

According to Open secrets, about half of DeFazio's campaign funds come from corporate PACs.
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/pacs?cid=N00007781&cycle=2018&seclong=Construction&sector=C

And,

Defazio filled out a survey from End Citizen's United where he pledged to support campaign finance reform measures:
http://endcitizensunited.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ECU-DeFazio-Completed-Questionniare-2018.pdf

His Republican opponent has not answered the survey.

There you have it. DeFazio barely won his district in 2016. He can't afford to give his opponent an edge, so he accepts corporate PAC money, about $400,000. He is on record of supporting the kind of reform you advocate. His opponent, if he wins will not. Tell me what you think I should do regarding DeFazio and the November election.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
I'm not answering any more leading questions. What's your point?

As I said before, I don't think the people I support are corrupt, I think they are stuck with a corrupt system. Peter DeFazio, the rep in my district is an example of why I say this is too nuanced for you.

According to Open secrets, about half of DeFazio's campaign funds come from corporate PACs.
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/pacs?cid=N00007781&cycle=2018&seclong=Construction&sector=C

And,

Defazio filled out a survey from End Citizen's United where he pledged to support campaign finance reform measures:
http://endcitizensunited.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ECU-DeFazio-Completed-Questionniare-2018.pdf

His Republican opponent has not answered the survey.

There you have it. DeFazio barely won his district in 2016. He can't afford to give his opponent an edge, so he accepts corporate PAC money, about $400,000. He is on record of supporting the kind of reform you advocate. His opponent, if he wins will not. Tell me what you think I should do regarding DeFazio and the November election.
If corporate/PAC money doesn't corrupt or influence opinion, why do you support campaign finance reform?
 

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
Campaign laws can't change until Democrats are in power. I don't see how foregoing campaign contributions will help Democrats win seats when Republicans will legally accept any and all.

The rest of your post is about how we can't trust Democrats to pass comprehensive campaign finance reform when they can. Should I remind you that when it came up in 2014, every Democratic Party Senator supported the bill? If that doesn't convince you then nothing will.
Why would democrates do such a thing? Since their main target audience is the poor they trick who can't afford, the only ones who can are the billionaires like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Mark Zuckerburg, Oprah Winfrey, and Mark Cuban. Those antifa thugs you admire so much can barely afford the toilet paper they wiped their ass with to light their Molotov cocktails.

Campaign finance reform would hurt democrats worse and they know it. It's the game they play. Republicans take on the role of bad cop, while dems are the good cop. Neither are true, in the end the overall agenda plays out while each side picks some stupid non sequitur as the reason.

They really hate each other?

 
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Fogdog

Well-Known Member
No

Answer my question; If corporate/PAC money doesn't corrupt or influence opinion, why do you support campaign finance reform?
My Congressman, Peter DeFazio's record of supporting progressive measures was 95% last year. He.supports every campaign finance reform measure endorsed by End Citizen's Uniited. Yet, his campaign accepts donations from Business PACs.

His opponent, a Republican has no interest in campaign finance reform. His stance on the environment is abysmal. He supports Trump's positions on immigration.

What would you suggest I do with my vote?
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Why would democrates do such a thing? Since their main target audience is the poor they trick who can't afford, the only ones who can are the billionaires like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffet, Mark Zuckerburg, Oprah Winfrey, and Mark Cuban. Those antifa thugs you admire so much can barely afford the toilet paper they wiped their ass with to light their Molotov cocktails.

Campaign finance reform would hurt democrats worse and they know it. It's the game they play. Republicans take on the role of bad cop, while dems are the good cop. Neither are true, in the end the overall agenda plays out while each side picks some stupid non sequitur as the reason.

They really hate each other?

Oh, Hi!!!!

Alt.right boy. Glad to see you. I have a question for you White supremacists all 400 of them, fly and drive hundreds of miles to gather for white power demonstrations. What are they demonstrating FOR? What wrong are they trying to redress?
 

Buddha2525

Well-Known Member
Oh, Hi!!!!

Alt.right boy. Glad to see you. I have a question for you White supremacists all 400 of them, fly and drive hundreds of miles to gather for white power demonstrations. What are they demonstrating FOR? What wrong are they trying to redress?
I signed in just to like your post since it made me smile. Thoughts and prayers from the Buddha.
 
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