Heisenbeans Genetics

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boybelue

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Wait wait wait...
So not only are this S1's... these are female female crosses..... aka your pollen chucking hermies.

S1's are NOT the truest representation of the parent, they are actually the furthest from that...

Ok wow... anyone buying these has to be new. S1's are hardly worth buying imo... most of us know that.
I totally disagree with everything you have said. I dont consider pollen acquired from a chemically reversed female to be hermie pollen. A well stress tested female reversed will not produce hermie offspring. The process of chemically reversing a plant will not pass on any hermie trait that wasn't present to begin with, hence stress testing. What exactly would you consider to be the best representation of the parent. Selfing a female only passes on the hereditary information from the mom only so how can you get a closer representation. Just about every OG out there is from an S1 and it's my belief the original Chem seeds were from an accidental selfing and those are probably the most well known and most popular strains of cannabis and I would consider them well worth buying. Of course this is all just my opinion, just like you have yours.
 
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boybelue

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S3 or S4 for me. You can pop 50+ beans till you find the right one in a s1. But your right, that's just my experience/opinion.
Most people will be happy though I guess if they dont care about these "minor" details.. seeds are seeds, who cares :)
I've always heard selfing past the first generation leads to less desirable plants. I did seem to notice that the s2's ive made didn't quite hold up as well in outdoor conditions, were more susceptible to bud rot, less vigor, just physically not as strong. I can't say it was because they were s2s, to much to factor in and way more grows needed to verify. And more strains w/multiple selfings.
 

SKUNKandSOUR

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Regarding s1s, I'm not convinced that recessive herm traits won't be passed on, only to appear in future generations down the line. So caution should always be taken when bagseed or s1 is in the lineage.This is why we tend to be cautious when dealing with chem, cookies, og, crosses. It's also why I take herm reports with a grain of salt most of the time.
Caveat: There is a big difference between a cut that will only herm when chemically induced vs one that will herm due to "natural" stressors.

With that being said, I never see much discussion around strains having herm tendencies until they become acclimated after several generations of selection in a new environment. It's something bodhi talked about in the potcast that makes a lot of sense when you think about a cannabis' natural will to survive generationally.

It's a little different with indoors because we should theoretically be able to dial in our indoor climates similarly, but when it comes to outdoor, taking a line that was bred for generations in a desert climate, and then trying to grow the resultant seeds in a climate that is the polar opposite can stress the plant out enough to herm until it gets used to the new climate after several generations.

Like heisen said though, I kill off anything that herms even slightly in my indoor setup. I'm not trying to acclimate unstable genes. Rather I am looking for those that can take a beating and still not herm. This approach makes the most sense to me to reduce herm tendencies in potential future generations. Not fool proof but makes the most sense to me.
 

Heisenbeans

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I've always heard selfing past the first generation leads to less desirable plants. I did seem to notice that the s2's ive made didn't quite hold up as well in outdoor conditions, were more susceptible to bud rot, less vigor, just physically not as strong. I can't say it was because they were s2s, to much to factor in and way more grows needed to verify. And more strains w/multiple selfings.
Yeah man that dude is on the hate train. When was the last time you saw someone's grand kids look more like them than the parents.
S1s and F1 crosses are as close as your gonna get unless your breeding an IBL which just gets on a whole new level of breeding and requires alot of time and space.
 

boybelue

Well-Known Member
Regarding s1s, I'm not convinced that recessive herm traits won't be passed on, only to appear in future generations down the line. So caution should always be taken when bagseed or s1 is in the lineage.This is why we tend to be cautious when dealing with chem, cookies, og, crosses. It's also why I take herm reports with a grain of salt most of the time.
Caveat: There is a big difference between a cut that will only herm when chemically induced vs one that will herm due to "natural" stressors.

With that being said, I never see much discussion around strains having herm tendencies until they become acclimated after several generations of selection in a new environment. It's something bodhi talked about in the potcast that makes a lot of sense when you think about a cannabis' natural will to survive generationally.

It's a little different with indoors because we should theoretically be able to dial in our indoor climates similarly, but when it comes to outdoor, taking a line that was bred for generations in a desert climate, and then trying to grow the resultant seeds in a climate that is the polar opposite can stress the plant out enough to herm until it gets used to the new climate after several generations.

Like heisen said though, I kill off anything that herms even slightly in my indoor setup. I'm not trying to acclimate unstable genes. Rather I am looking for those that can take a beating and still not herm. This approach makes the most sense to me to reduce herm tendencies in potential future generations. Not fool proof but makes the most sense to me.
I can agree with that, it all depends on how the s1s came about. Most bagseed s1's, Chem included, came from a hermie trait already present, recessive most likely but present and came about from stress. The chemical reversal doesn't add any hermie traits. The only way they would be passed on was if they were present before. Major stress testing like the desert grow, igloo grow would most likely weed out the the herm trait, as recessive as it may be. Thats why extreme stress test are a must in my opinion.
 

boybelue

Well-Known Member
I believe Heisen is stress testing these out well enough, probably not as intense as desert/north pole conditions, but light interruptions, feed and temp fluctuations will suffice. If anybody is stressing there plants beyond those parameters they don't need to be growing in the first place.
 

AmericanGrower508

Well-Known Member
If any of the moms hermies on her own she's getting tossed. I wont use a mom if they dont pass the stress test.
The wifi threw balls from light stress
The wifi offspring hermied 3 out of 12.
No good. I tossed them all including the 43 cut.

Any female in my garden that throws balls from stress is going straight to the trash I dont care what she was traded for or cost. That simple.
Um you aren't going to have many mom's if you toss the ones that throw nana's when stressed ECSD, 91, GG4,Tredawg, Stardawg all do.
 

SKUNKandSOUR

Well-Known Member
Good points made all around. I guess it should be made clear when talking about plants from seed or cuts. I feel like these are two different topics that need to be differentiated. To clarify, I was talking about plants that I am hunting from seed in my last post on this thread. Forgive me for not being clear. I understand Heisen is talking about clone onlys. Carry on...
 

ky farmer

Well-Known Member
Yeah man that dude is on the hate train. When was the last time you saw someone's grand kids look more like them than the parents.
S1s and F1 crosses are as close as your gonna get unless your breeding an IBL which just gets on a whole new level of breeding and requires alot of time and space.
dr, grean thumb in Canada look at how long g13 has been made in fem, beans and they don't herima.I grow out doors and I have never sean a fem, bean turn hurmie.Where iam getting up in the years I only grow fem, beans now and my friends for we wount plants that is not thrown away.males are a wast for me now.only way I grow reg, seeds is if its a strain that I can not find in fem,,and then I make the first grow in fem, beans and I have never had a hearm plant in my life but I make my own and only buy from people I trust only.
 

jayblaze710

Well-Known Member
dr, grean thumb in Canada look at how long g13 has been made in fem, beans and they don't herima.I grow out doors and I have never sean a fem, bean turn hurmie.Where iam getting up in the years I only grow fem, beans now and my friends for we wount plants that is not thrown away.males are a wast for me now.only way I grow reg, seeds is if its a strain that I can not find in fem,,and then I make the first grow in fem, beans and I have never had a hearm plant in my life but I make my own and only buy from people I trust only.
Cannabis tends not to herm as readily outdoors as indoors.
 
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