GM laying off 15% of workers and shutting down 5 plants due to trump tariffs

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
I am a real proponent of geo tech (I think I said that lol) but it too has a few environmental issues. But with out subsidies geo is out of reach for most home owners. Community loop fields are now being offered in a few communities here and that is reducing capital costs per home/business. Actually was at one today that went down :(.
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I'm under the impression that geo-energy is competitive with natural gas, at least that's what the chart from EIA says. There is a ton of conflicting information out there but what I've read from believable sources is that geo can only make up a fraction of the whole demand in the US. Some say the bulk will have to come from solar PV and some say "advanced nuke", whatever that means. Maybe it's different in Canada. Maybe my sources are wrong. I only know what I read.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
There is a Tesla owner in NorCal that rents a garage in San Francisco and lives in his car during the week and it drives him home on the weekends. Rents are high in Frisco...
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Today, Elon Musk lost $821,606,000.

In the last 8 days, he's lost $2,743,180,000 or about 13% of his entire net worth.

That idea might start appealing to him as well if things keep going as they are.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Today, Elon Musk lost $821,606,000.

In the last 8 days, he's lost $2,743,180,000 or about 13% of his entire net worth.

That idea might start appealing to him as well if things keep going as they are.
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Because he dropped the price of the Model 3 in China (because of tariffs) and because of the Republican Congress phasing out tax credits for purchases of new electric vehicles.

So...Tesla are doing a little less well than expected because Republicans are literally skull-fucking homegrown American businesses...

Well done proving the assumption of the thread to be correct.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
It was Elon Musk himself that advised Trump on the tariffs earlier this year and fully supported them. He still fully supports Trump to this day.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/03/08/elon-musk-sides-with-trump-on-trade-with-china-citing-25-percent-import-duty-on-american-cars.html
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Musk is a founder with the long view for his company. Paper losses in a portfolio that he doesn't plan to sell means practically nothing to a guy like that. As far as his advice for Trump, I would hazard a guess that his advice would have been gauged to help his company in the long run.

Didn't read the article. Did it say that Trump took and implemented his recommendations?
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
It was Elon Musk himself that advised Trump on the tariffs earlier this year and fully supported them. He still fully supports Trump to this day.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/03/08/elon-musk-sides-with-trump-on-trade-with-china-citing-25-percent-import-duty-on-american-cars.html
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Fully?
From your article.
""I am against import duties in general, but the current rules make things very difficult. It's like competing in an Olympic race wearing lead shoes," Musk tweets."

"Nearly all of the businesses he’s disrupting are more reliant on government support — most notably the Detroit automakers, the United Launch Alliance, and the oil industry in general. Most major corporations benefit from government policy in some way, if only through trade and tax deals. We’ve seen CEOs from Ford, AT&T, and Boeing all playing nice with Trump for similar reasons." - https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/6/14520608/elon-musk-trump-tesla-business-deal-economic-advisory-team



Looks like a new mine is going to go in here. They chasing cobalt, evidently it goes into batteries...
 
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SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
It was Elon Musk himself that advised Trump on the tariffs earlier this year and fully supported them. He still fully supports Trump to this day.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/03/08/elon-musk-sides-with-trump-on-trade-with-china-citing-25-percent-import-duty-on-american-cars.html
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He supported an equalization of tariffs on auto imports, ie pressuring the Chinese Govt into changing their pre-existing tariffs.

He doesn't support a trade war over "trade deficits".

Jesus man, I used to think you were smart, in reality you misrepresent well but that's it.
Fogdog said:
Musk is a founder with the long view for his company. Paper losses in a portfolio that he doesn't plan to sell means practically nothing to a guy like that. As far as his advice for Trump, I would hazard a guess that his advice would have been gauged to help his company in the long run.

Didn't read the article. Did it say that Trump took and implemented his recommendations?
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He gave up on Trump and doesn't sit on his advisory board anymore.
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
He supported an equalization of tariffs on auto imports, ie pressuring the Chinese Govt into changing their pre-existing tariffs.
.
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Which makes him, like Trump, an idiot.

There was never any chance of that happening. We need China. They do not need us.

He was right in there with Trump saying, "Jack up the Tariffs on China! Lets level the playing field!"

And that is exactly what they did.

And China returned the favor by jacking the 25% tariff on autos to 40%.

They were fucking stupid. They both helped bring about their own doom because neither of them know the first damn thing about world trade.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm under the impression that geo-energy is competitive with natural gas, at least that's what the chart from EIA says. There is a ton of conflicting information out there but what I've read from believable sources is that geo can only make up a fraction of the whole demand in the US. Some say the bulk will have to come from solar PV and some say "advanced nuke", whatever that means. Maybe it's different in Canada. Maybe my sources are wrong. I only know what I read.
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Well I do keep saying there is no one solution. The amount of demand it can meet is kind of a mute point when we all know there has to be more than a one pony show so to speak. I’m also not sure about the actual cost per KW produced over the life of the system but yes it’s a hard sell when NG is at an all time low (thanks fracking), they are actually burning off a huge amount at the well head. The carbon taxes did help to raise the price of NG to somewhat cover the actual cost in damage caused. As for making up demand, I would guess that would rely on the number of systems in place. The deep earth energy is there whether the wind is blowing or the sun is shining so it has that. I’m more of a proponent of the end user systems because that’s what I do.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Which makes him, like Trump, an idiot.

There was never any chance of that happening. We need China. They do not need us.

He was right in there with Trump saying, "Jack up the Tariffs on China! Lets level the playing field!"

And that is exactly what they did.

And China returned the favor by jacking the 25% tariff on autos to 40%.

They were fucking stupid. They both helped bring about their own doom because neither of them know the first damn thing about world trade.
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EDC6BADB-48EE-4E9A-80B7-3F980B64CDA0.png
 
TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
Budley Doright said:
Well I do keep saying there is no one solution.
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And you are wrong.

Everybody knew the price of doing business in China all along.

Everybody knew that China would NEVER allow anything remotely close to a level playing field.

These rules were laid out for everybody decades ago.

Everybody decided to do it anyway to get into the largest emerging market on earth.

No president was so stupid as to start a trade war with China because they knew we'd lose. Even with big company executives like Musk and others screaming for something to be done, it fell on deaf ears and rightly so.

If you're not willing to pay the price for doing business in China, keep your ass at home. That was pretty much what they were told by every president.

Then comes Trump. In Trump they had a dumbass they knew they could talk into doing something about it.

That is exactly what they did.

Now they and that idiot Trump have made the situation worse.

They have absolutely nobody to blame but themselves, the lot of them
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
And you are wrong.

Everybody knew the price of doing business in China all along.

Everybody knew that China would NEVER allow anything remotely close to a level playing field.

These rules were laid out for everybody decades ago.

Everybody decided to do it anyway to get into the largest emerging market on earth.

No president was so stupid as to start a trade war with China because they knew we'd lose. Even with big company executives like Musk and others screaming for something to be done, it fell on deaf ears and rightly so.

If you're not willing to pay the price for doing business in China, keep your ass at home. That was pretty much what they were told by every president.

Then comes Trump. In Trump they had a dumbass they knew they could talk into doing something about it.

That is exactly what they did.

Now they and that idiot Trump have made the situation worse.

They have absolutely nobody to blame but themselves, the lot of them
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What am I wrong about? Are you confused maybe lol.
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/aaaqjy/i_did_668_miles_yesterday_in_my_lr_model_3_best/

"I did 668 miles yesterday in my Tesla LR Model 3. Best road trip car EVER BUILT!!...
Model 3 LR RWD is seriously the best road trip car that I have ever experienced. This was in temps between 40 and 50F and I was getting around 280Wh/mile at 75-80 mph and the charge times were still insanely quick. In the summertime when highway consumption is closer to 230Wh/mile it's that much shorter.

The best way to road trip is to stop at the charger with 10-15% charge and then leave as soon as you're getting less than 110kW assuming that you can make it to the next charger. Charge times using this strategy are typically under 10 minutes.

BTW, the trip planner graph is SUPER accurate. I'd typically see +/- 2% from what it originally calculated.

BTW #2: cruising at 80mph for hours on end using nothing but electricity is awesome! WHAT A MACHINE!"....
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
And you are wrong.

Everybody knew the price of doing business in China all along.

Everybody knew that China would NEVER allow anything remotely close to a level playing field.

These rules were laid out for everybody decades ago.

Everybody decided to do it anyway to get into the largest emerging market on earth.

No president was so stupid as to start a trade war with China because they knew we'd lose. Even with big company executives like Musk and others screaming for something to be done, it fell on deaf ears and rightly so.

If you're not willing to pay the price for doing business in China, keep your ass at home. That was pretty much what they were told by every president.

Then comes Trump. In Trump they had a dumbass they knew they could talk into doing something about it.

That is exactly what they did.

Now they and that idiot Trump have made the situation worse.

They have absolutely nobody to blame but themselves, the lot of them
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Budley was talking about geo power, not Tesla and he was right.

Regarding the other thread running through this post, you are arguing about an opinion, not a certainty. You aren't wrong, but the certainty you evince is not justified. Tesla is a going concern, it's own press releases say they are doing just fine. Yes they face a challenging year and they might not make it but that hasn't happened yet. As far as the charging issue is concerned, some people don't mind it others do. Again, you are arguing over an opinion.

For myself, I am price sensitive and in my opinion, Tesla cars cost more than I'm willing to pay. On the other hand, I only drive about 400 miles a month so the emissions from my fuel efficient beater isn't nearly the same issue as somebody who drives more than I do. In my opinion, Tesla isn't worth the price but jj's opinion is different and I'm not going to argue over a difference of opinion so long as we agree on the facts.
 
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