Input on seedling needed
- Thread starter weze
- Start date
Tuckatan
Well-Known Member
I think he’s meaning a hot spot in the medium, a clump of slightly more acidic, or nutrient rich soil.
Either way OP good luck, I hope she perks up!
Beachwalker
Well-Known Member
H.A.F.
Well-Known Member
Advise against! Seedlings need little to no water, and if your soil is hot, soaking it just make sure all your roots will be inundated with "hot soil' effects. It is a weed. If it is vertical leave it alone!. The roots will find their best 'path'. If you already soaked it, you probably don't need to again for a week or so.
H.A.F.
Well-Known Member
Confucius say: The easiest way to kill a plant is with human interaction 
Things like hot soil are a problem, but if the plant is living in it, it is dealing with it. It might make it more receptive to having a lot of nutes 'pushed' later in life, who knows. If you change stuff try doing it in small increments. If it works do more, if not you haven't done much damage. Whether it is light height, light intensity, the strength of nutes you feed, whatever. As long as it's not a "OH MY GOD IT"S DYING!" situation where you need to do something drastic (like an unplanned flush).
Just my opinion, FWIW
Things like hot soil are a problem, but if the plant is living in it, it is dealing with it. It might make it more receptive to having a lot of nutes 'pushed' later in life, who knows. If you change stuff try doing it in small increments. If it works do more, if not you haven't done much damage. Whether it is light height, light intensity, the strength of nutes you feed, whatever. As long as it's not a "OH MY GOD IT"S DYING!" situation where you need to do something drastic (like an unplanned flush).
Just my opinion, FWIW
Serpentz
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem I see when people are getting a seedling to grow is over-watering it. You're going to stunt its growth quicker than anything with too much water. I agree with H.A.F. - just leave it alone. The embryonic leaves will give the plant everything it needs for its first week or so...considering the soil isn't bone dry. Overwatering it will decrease the oxygen the tap-root so desperately needs.
H.A.F.
Well-Known Member
I sprout mine in a peat plug (root riot type, not jiffy pellets) in peat and soil mix, no water except the moisture in the peat sponge.
Put in a clear solo-cup so I can watch root development, but that is a regular solo cup to keep light out. After the cotyledon's start wilting, THEN I add water, but like 10-20ml from a syringe around the outside of the cup, or a spray bottle through the drainage slits on the cup from the outside.
When the roots hit the bottom of the cup, I transplant into final home, and that is the first watering, only a cup or so.
I have a guide posted on my page somewhere
https://www.rollitup.org/t/superskunk-manifold.982650/
Beachwalker
Well-Known Member
Op here's a picture of a Blackberry Bubblegum seedling on the right that hit a hotspot in ffof. Compared to the one next to it that did not
I flushed it and it's already doing great as you can by the new growth, but I noticed it very early. The only seedling I've lost to a hotspot was one I hesitated to flush several years ago. I don't hesitate now and you can see the results.
(I also hate those little red cups unless it's 80° & I'm down the beach and it's filled with beer. These's are 6in rounds and I also use 5-inch squares)
Again, I recommend if that doesn't perk up in 24 hours give it a good flush. I'd recommend you do it now but where you had a dome on it it's possible that that was at least a contributing factor if not the cause, good luck!
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H.A.F.
Well-Known Member
What is that white thing sticking in the soil?
edited -never mind, I thought it was a miracle gro slow-feeder stick
If you see bending on the stem at this stage, just rotate the plant. They are phototropic and seek the light. There is more chance of doing damage to a fragile young stem by trying to train it. If it gets too tall and stretchy just add a little more soil to prop it up.
edited -never mind, I thought it was a miracle gro slow-feeder stick
If you see bending on the stem at this stage, just rotate the plant. They are phototropic and seek the light. There is more chance of doing damage to a fragile young stem by trying to train it. If it gets too tall and stretchy just add a little more soil to prop it up.
just my 2cents as im pretty sure you can start seeds in ffof; not recommended due to the added nutrients but it is possible. water less often; idk how often you are watering or how much. if your planing to water often water much less. if watering less often water more per watering. i water mine in my roots organic original soil once every 3 days until run off. just transplanted them into 3gals roots were nice could of gone a few more days but wanted to give em more space personally.
of course do NOT feed ffof has tons of nutrients to last from what i've heard/read 3-4 weeks. if your adding supplements add things such as microrhizae and bacteria or root stimulants but not veg/bloom nutes.
if using RO water you NEED to add cal mag. that is a MUST for RO water. PH your Water before adding, PH your run off.
do NOT worry about the size of the cotyledon leaves or the stem being purple. for me personally that happens they later turn white then green over time. my seedlings had purple stems. im on i think day 7 of veg since sprouting 10 days total from seed to now stems are all white now they used to be half white near the top then towards the bottom purple. WORRY about the color of the leaves they shouldn't be yellowing.
my guess is over watering. 20W cfl's are not very strong but will work to an extent for now; i've done the same in my past grows with weak CFL's and LED's they grew fine to a decent size. #1 problem they say for new growers is learning to water properly. trust me im 3 grows in i still have trouble learning to water. my first grow compared to your seedling is utter shit. killed 4/5 plants just by over watering they didn't even make it as far as yours.
what can help your grow and from what i've read about ffof if you got the money to invest is 2 things that i can suggest idk if others will also agree with this or add onto it but me personally i did and seen better results in my past grow and current grow. 1. Microrhizae; fox farm claims they do NOT add microrhizae to ffof only happy frog. look on the label it isn't stated on ffof but is on happy frog. 2. Microbes ( like #1 they don't state to add microbes to the soil which is extremely beneficial to plant life. i am SURE they must have some.. but you want to build that colony up again ffof doesn't seem to really have it added but happy frog does ) use w.e. products you want cheap, expensive, brands w.e. you like. what i use and works for me is Myko's granular formula which seems to be only added during transplants. they have an WP version which you can mix and water in. some soil brands add microrhizae already like pro mix. bacteria i am currently testing out is fucking expensive which is voodoo juice by Advanced Nutrients. can't say it is great as im testing it personally but im sure cheaper brands will do just fine. Xtreme gardening sells it in powder form as well called Azo's.
my seedlings just got chewed to almost complete death by my cat yesterday i was pissed. transplanted them, gave them these stuff along with other things i am testing on this grow such as silica, B vitamins, enzymes, more bacteria and microrhizae since im transplanting in another type of medium to try and inoculate it more. the plants look like hell right now in appearance but they seem to be growing good regardless. i have before and after pics as well
before the cat- https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/532390523290517505/535189749514633226/JPEG_20190116_101216.jpg
after the cat - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390404674219409410/535593805467090946/JPEG_20190117_125821.jpg
chewed the shit out of each plant they are missing half their leaf mass the biggest one has it the worst
of course do NOT feed ffof has tons of nutrients to last from what i've heard/read 3-4 weeks. if your adding supplements add things such as microrhizae and bacteria or root stimulants but not veg/bloom nutes.
if using RO water you NEED to add cal mag. that is a MUST for RO water. PH your Water before adding, PH your run off.
do NOT worry about the size of the cotyledon leaves or the stem being purple. for me personally that happens they later turn white then green over time. my seedlings had purple stems. im on i think day 7 of veg since sprouting 10 days total from seed to now stems are all white now they used to be half white near the top then towards the bottom purple. WORRY about the color of the leaves they shouldn't be yellowing.
my guess is over watering. 20W cfl's are not very strong but will work to an extent for now; i've done the same in my past grows with weak CFL's and LED's they grew fine to a decent size. #1 problem they say for new growers is learning to water properly. trust me im 3 grows in i still have trouble learning to water. my first grow compared to your seedling is utter shit. killed 4/5 plants just by over watering they didn't even make it as far as yours.
what can help your grow and from what i've read about ffof if you got the money to invest is 2 things that i can suggest idk if others will also agree with this or add onto it but me personally i did and seen better results in my past grow and current grow. 1. Microrhizae; fox farm claims they do NOT add microrhizae to ffof only happy frog. look on the label it isn't stated on ffof but is on happy frog. 2. Microbes ( like #1 they don't state to add microbes to the soil which is extremely beneficial to plant life. i am SURE they must have some.. but you want to build that colony up again ffof doesn't seem to really have it added but happy frog does ) use w.e. products you want cheap, expensive, brands w.e. you like. what i use and works for me is Myko's granular formula which seems to be only added during transplants. they have an WP version which you can mix and water in. some soil brands add microrhizae already like pro mix. bacteria i am currently testing out is fucking expensive which is voodoo juice by Advanced Nutrients. can't say it is great as im testing it personally but im sure cheaper brands will do just fine. Xtreme gardening sells it in powder form as well called Azo's.
my seedlings just got chewed to almost complete death by my cat yesterday i was pissed. transplanted them, gave them these stuff along with other things i am testing on this grow such as silica, B vitamins, enzymes, more bacteria and microrhizae since im transplanting in another type of medium to try and inoculate it more. the plants look like hell right now in appearance but they seem to be growing good regardless. i have before and after pics as well
before the cat- https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/532390523290517505/535189749514633226/JPEG_20190116_101216.jpg
after the cat - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390404674219409410/535593805467090946/JPEG_20190117_125821.jpg
chewed the shit out of each plant they are missing half their leaf mass the biggest one has it the worst
Old Thcool
Well-Known Member
The thing is, bark is not wood chips and coco can look like either depending on how fine or course it’s chopped. Bark is the outer most portion of an unspecified tree. Wood chips uncomposted will rob nitrogen in the process of being broken down, that may be what you are seeing? Does ocean forest specify the base ingredients on the bag? Or are they like dog food manufacturers that aren’t required to be transparent? Sounds inconsistent anyway.
I have chosen to go straight coco to eliminate variables beyond inputs, as a beginner who is still learning, like myself, that may be the easiest way?
update on the biggest plant - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/532390523290517505/535914308769546240/JPEG_20190118_101108.jpg
it's growing surprisingly it is now in 3gals fabric pots kinda too big for what i want but was my only option 2 gals would of been better. so yea idk if it is the fucking voodoo juice or microrhizae or the my supplements but i would recommend if you have the money to spare. if not K.I.S.S
ffof i think contains SOME bark/wood i've seen some in mine it's not stated on the labels though so might just be packaging problem. same with my pro mix i bought yesterday doesn't claim to have bark/wood in it i find a bunch of sticks inside mine. i do mean actual sticks as well anywhere from 3-5 inches long they are skinny though cna easily snap them or throw em out and they are not abundent i found 3-5 sticks out of the bale
it's growing surprisingly it is now in 3gals fabric pots kinda too big for what i want but was my only option 2 gals would of been better. so yea idk if it is the fucking voodoo juice or microrhizae or the my supplements but i would recommend if you have the money to spare. if not K.I.S.S
ffof i think contains SOME bark/wood i've seen some in mine it's not stated on the labels though so might just be packaging problem. same with my pro mix i bought yesterday doesn't claim to have bark/wood in it i find a bunch of sticks inside mine. i do mean actual sticks as well anywhere from 3-5 inches long they are skinny though cna easily snap them or throw em out and they are not abundent i found 3-5 sticks out of the bale
Beachwalker
Well-Known Member
You do realize those are my plants in the above picture that you're talking about right?NO WATER!!! Looking awesome so now just watch
The water in the pot now should be enough until they are ready to transplant. If you do water, just do it with a syringe or a squirt bottle around the outside edge - milli-liters! not cups!
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Old Thcool
Well-Known Member
I have tried bagged soil in outdoor grows years ago and they all had stems and wood chips etc. The plants did poorly. Since that time I have two compost piles of leafy matter and table scraps/ fruit and grass trimmings with straw. We own a tree service so I have piles of well rotted chips - they need to be black like dirt and not look like wood chips! Mycelium is like spiderwebs throughout it !
I combine the two of them to make my soil broadcast that on my beds, plant red clover and wait until it’s roughly 6-8 inches tall. Then I cover it in hay and rot the clover. Works awesome! But it would be really hard to pull off indoors. The purpose of this statement is to demonstrate the quality of the ingredients compared to that of what would be found in a random bag of commercial material.
yea i highly dislike wood chips the stuff im using isn't composted in the bads it looks like just fire wood in tiny pieces. i used to compost as we have a lot of wood/tree's we chop down regularly they compost nicely but if i use that shit in my outdoor garden which often my grandpa does it takes FOREVER to compost. what he does is dig a giant hole fill it up with dead leaves and twigs and shit and covers it. after a few months i dig it up it ain't even composted that much lol.
Old Thcool
Well-Known Member
Woodchips take different amounts of time to decompose. In general, left in a pile hardwoods like birch and maple take 3-4 years to break down and softwoods like fir/pine/cedar/hemlock take 4 years or more to fully decompose. Of course, that’s not mixed with other things like lawn clippings etc. You can speed that up by wetting the pile and turning, but I don’t have the time nor the desire. Some woodchips, such as redwood and western red cedar are pretty acidic too even after composting so best to use sparingly or only with acid loving plants.
idk what kinda tree's we got they are all fruit tree's mainly idk if you know what chico is but i believe the branches were from that tree. i don't fuck with composting anymore but when i did i primarily do vermicomposting. i tried to introduce BSFL as well to help break down the material even faster but i didn't get a great population of them and can't buy the larvae or anything here. i do find a few japanese beetle larvae in my composts though looks nasty but im sure it helps break down some of the matter quicker as well but yea the wood in general takes a long time to break down ran a vermicompost for like 3 months before i harvest it's not done of course but i toss w.e. is in the bins into the garden to break down further over time. the wood still there semi decomposed
H.A.F.
Well-Known Member
I have found it works (for me) to just add extra cal-mag on feedings, then nothing on the watering's in between.
I use my nutes (FF brand) at 50-75%, but the calmag always at 100%, and from about week 4 of veg until I start starving her at the end I use an extra 3-5ml/gallon.
H.A.F.
Well-Known Member
Yes, and considering that they are in "hot" soil, they are vertical and green and not drooping or curling. They look fine.