Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients

[McFrosticles]

I'm not trying to be offensive, but your statement is fairly conflicted. I know this because I was at the same crossroads some months back. If you want simple or cheap, that limits the possible outcome, so desires like ideal and preferred are lessened. In the chart, is both 3.6-2.4-1.1 & 3-2-1, as well as GH bloom for reference. IMO, GH at 100% is way too hot, GH @70% is still too hot, but lacking in P, Jack's 3.6..... is way too hot, and Jack's 321 is lacking in micros, P and Mg is way too hot.

All of those concerns can be remedied and made "ideal", that's actually ideal, but it will take more investment as well as the need to learn the math, or how to use Hydro Buddy to calculate your doses. I've already made a tutorial on 420mag forums and it's linked above, it will teach you how to use Hydro Buddy, and with that knowledge, you'll be able to make much more informed decisions. FWIW, I had decent luck supplementing my long regimen with GH Flora Micro as I had almost a gallon left over, but would never have been able to do that if I didn't know how to use Hydro Buddy.

As it is now, I no longer use Jack's Peter's or any other Part A mix. I build my entire regimen from the ground up and in about a week will be fully complete in my research and will have a finalized BOM and feed chart. Here's a list of the products I now use, ie Macros and Micros. In about a week, I will replace Micros with Chelated Micros, but still need to purchase the chelated metals.

--Macros
Potassium Silicate
Potassium Sulfate
Calcium Nitrate (cal nit)
Magnesium Nitrate
Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom)
Monopotassium Phosphate (MKP)

--Micros
Iron Sulfate
Manganese Sulfate
Zinc Sulfate
Copper Sulfate
Boric Acid
Sodium Molybdate
---------------------------------------------------------

--Chelated Micros
Iron DTPA
Manganese EDTA
Zinc EDTA
Copper EDTA
Boric Acid
Sodium Molybdate

Right now, I use the Macros and Micros, but refined research has me wanting to use the Chelated Micros and I'll do so in about a week. I have the Boric Acid and Molybdate, but now need to replace the chelated metals. FWIW, I've been using STEM which is JR Peter's micro mix, but it's made of sulfate micros, and when mixed into a concentrate to be used weekly, all of the iron at least fell out of the solution and gave my Pineapple Chunk some damage as a result. This is why I will get chelated micros, then I can dial in the exact numbers I wish to target. If I see any toxicity or deficiency, I can tweak the feed to address every concern w/o fear of changing other things and causing cascading problems. My goal is to give my plants exactly what they need, when they need it and not more. I aim to have perfect leaves and stems at the end of bloom and I am literally inches away from that goal.

So as I said, if you seek simplicity, you'll need to lower your expectations or redefine what "ideal" means to you. For me, it means a whole lot.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/

Thanks for the in depth response. I've only just had the opportunity to read through your thread on 420, hats off to you for the work there it's very informative. A lot of it went over my head to say the least haha. I think I'd need a few classes on hydro buddy before I'd have a proper grasp of it's functionality. One of the main problems is although there's a tool to find desired values, I don't know what the desired values I'm looking for are, and I assume they change week to week!

However I'm going to run a side by side of jacks hydro/calcium nitrate/epsom/silica with gh flora with silica and cal mag for the next few weeks of veg. They're all from seed so not exactly a scientific side by side as there's already signs of indica and sativa, but they're the same genetics. That will give me a feel for jacks and can stick with whatever I find is performing best.

 

[Skybound420]

Thanks for the in depth response. I've only just had the opportunity to read through your thread on 420, hats off to you for the work there it's very informative. A lot of it went over my head to say the least haha. I think I'd need a few classes on hydro buddy before I'd have a proper grasp of it's functionality. One of the main problems is although there's a tool to find desired values, I don't know what the desired values I'm looking for are, and I assume they change week to week!

However I'm going to run a side by side of jacks hydro/calcium nitrate/epsom/silica with gh flora with silica and cal mag for the next few weeks of veg. They're all from seed so not exactly a scientific side by side as there's already signs of indica and sativa, but they're the same genetics. That will give me a feel for jacks and can stick with whatever I find is performing best.

In a couple weeks, I'll be making a new thread to condense all of the useful content, and I'm tossing around the idea of also making a screen share tutorial for using hydrobuddy. I admit, that app isn't the easiest to use, but it is free and has all of the hidden reductions already factored in, like the difference between P-P2O5, K-K2O and S-SiO2, but I still need to mix up the chelated micro mix, then test it for a couple weeks to verify it.

I believe earlier in this thread is where I queried @im4satori and @nxsov180db for quite a few days to iron out what the best values are for cannabis, and I'm near certain I've found exactly that. Here are my current targets and you can see how I transition the targets by growth stage. All of the blank spaces represent where the values don't change.



FWIW, Jack's vs GH 3 part should be a good comparison, especially if you use GH at full strength as that will burn the shit out of those plants. Jack's 321 does fairly well from the journals I've seen use it, but it is still pretty far from ideal. Look into GreenGene's Garden on YouTube, he uses 321 and you can see it in his leaves.

 

[McFrosticles]

The girls are looking hungry. Going to mix up my first batch of 321 tonight moving from GH flora. What EC or ppm 500 or ppm 700 would you recommend? 25 days since planted 20 days since all popped with leaves

 

[im4satori]

The girls are looking hungry. Going to mix up my first batch of 321 tonight moving from GH flora. What EC or ppm 500 or ppm 700 would you recommend? 25 days since planted 20 days since all popped with leaves

id guess those plants would like something around
EC 1.0

and id mix it like this for veg
per gallon
2 grams calcium nitrate
2.25 grams jacks mix
0.5 grams epsom

N 112
P 31
K 128
Ca 100
Mg 50

 

[Skybound420]

A tip, I've been growing in croutons for years and you'll get better results if you keep them in smaller pots and letting the roots inundate the RW. After you get a few roots in the starter cubes, pot up to solo cups and leave them there until the roots will dry out the media in less than a day, then pot up to a small pot and repeat. If you're only vegging for 3 weeks and sending them to bloom, then disregard this, but if you're going to veg for a few weeks or more, you'll get better results letting them get root bound a bit.

 

[Skybound420]

@nxsov180db I wanted to say I'm having good results with the micro recipe you shared, though I hit a small bump when I tried to mix micro sulfates into a concentrate, that shit turned into rust water in 3 days and started fuckin up my leaves. Thankfully I located the chelated micros and quickly whipped that up into a concentrate and the plants seem to be responding well. I can't imagine how micro sulfates could be used unless in large quantities and used right away. To make a gallon of concentrate to the above targets, I had to mix it to make 1000 gallons just to use enough molybdenum to register on my scale. Even at that strength, there was still only less than a half gram total. All looks well now and I no longer use Jack's or Peter's. It's just the micro concentrate, CalNite, MagNite, MKP, Epsom, Pot Silicate, and Pot Sulfate and I'm hitting all of my targets dead on.

 

[Skybound420]

How concentrated did you mix it? I make it so that 1 ounce of stock makes once gallon of nute solution to feed with.

I aim to only mix concentrates every few weeks or so. That said, I put the 6 ingredients into Hydro Buddy, set the resolution to 1000 gallons, set my targets and this is what it output.

 

[Skybound420]

So I weighed each out according to the specs above, and mixed it all into a gallon of RO. I then know to mix one gallon of reservoir, I need 3.78ml of concentrate, or in my case, times that by 10 and it's 37.8 that I round up to an even 38mls. I should get about 100 reservoirs out of that jug before I need to mix more.

 

[Skybound420]

After all of my studies mostly consisting of questioning you guys @im4satori and @nxsov180db and buying a whole lot of shit that I will no longer use, I finally have full control of my nutes and can adjust any one or more things as I see fit. Total materials needed will cost about $160 and should last me about a decade +/- a few years. Aside from the Epsom that can be found in any pharmacy, and the Potassium Sulfate on Amazon Prime, the rest of the materials can be found at https://customhydronutrients.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 Here is the BOM I made up.

BOM for salts

Potassium Silicate................1lb............$16.64
Potassium Sulfate.................5lb............$9.00 - Amazon Prime
Calcium Nitrate......................4lb............$6.50
Magnesium Nitrate.................4lb............$8.32
Magnesium Sulfate(Epsom)....5lb...........$~5.00 Pharmacy
Monopotassium Phosphate.....4lb...........$14.21
---
Iron DTPA................................1lb............$18.50
Manganese EDTA....................1lb............$15.20
Zinc EDTA................................1lb............$16.95
Boric Acid.................................1lb.............$9.54
Copper EDTA...........................1lb.............$17.95
Sodium Molybdate...................8oz............$14.20

 

[Skybound420]

@Skybound420 I don't think you can add the iron to the other micros. That's probably where your problem came from. I add my iron to the calcium nitrate..

Do you mean Iron Sulfate? Perhaps, but STEM is made of all sulfates, and aside from the peculiar ratios, that's why I wanted to find something better.

 

[Skybound420]

I am well aware of all the chelating agents of nutrients and desired ratios of select nutrients at different points in the plants life cycle, I am not a novice thanks.

I am a novice, so if you have any recipes, or insights to share, please do. I am mostly wanting more input for micro levels, and how they should change per stage of growth. I veg long before bloom and as is now, I keep my micro targets steady from front to back. Am I wrong in doing that?

 

[Skybound420]

Oh you're using iron sulfate, ok that can't go onto calcium nitrate.. another thing to keep in mind is I recall reading at one time that peters STEM can't be put into a stock solution, so maybe that is part of the problem? Your using all the same micros that they use in STEM?

When I was using Peters, I was also using STEM. I then ordered all sulfate micros to make my own STEM replacement. Shortly after that I found the info I was looking for about chelated micros and ordered those and about a day before the chelated micros arrived, I noticed the rust water in the jug, so as soon as the chelates came, I tossed out the sulfate shit and whipped up the chelates and replaced all of my reservoirs so not to cause any further damage. All is looking well now.

 

[Skybound420]

 

[Skybound420]

RIU needs more emojis!

 

[ounevinsmoke]

@ounevinsmoke what happened to your posts bro?

Dude I only started conversing with you out of anger , none of these convos are productive so Im deleting them. Apologies for the confusion and name calling. Im too old for this haha

 

[Kokosgrow]

guys hi)) i need help
When I flip to 12/12 should I feed veg nutes, bloom nutes or a mixture of both, if both what ratio, I was thinking 1st week 70/30 veg/bloom and 2nd week 30/70 veg/bloom? Any idea?

 

[McFrosticles]

guys hi)) i need help
When I flip to 12/12 should I feed veg nutes, bloom nutes or a mixture of both, if both what ratio, I was thinking 1st week 70/30 veg/bloom and 2nd week 30/70 veg/bloom? Any idea?

Do you mean of jacks?

 

[Renfro]

guys hi)) i need help
When I flip to 12/12 should I feed veg nutes, bloom nutes or a mixture of both, if both what ratio, I was thinking 1st week 70/30 veg/bloom and 2nd week 30/70 veg/bloom? Any idea?

Are you talking about reducing part A and using a PK booster like MPK and or Potassium Sulfate?

 

[Skybound420]

There's no such thing as veg nutes or bloom nutes, there's just nutes and they do not know what we call them.

 

[im4satori]

I aim to only mix concentrates every few weeks or so. That said, I put the 6 ingredients into Hydro Buddy, set the resolution to 1000 gallons, set my targets and this is what it output.

View attachment 4303514

NXSOV180db is correct

the iron dtpa should go into the stock tank A with the calcium nitrate


also
not all chelated nutes are soluble in a concentrate

for example i know the copper edta wont work

the Mn and zince Edta might work maybe, but when i tried it i had problems

id recommend using the micro nutes from sulfate
for example
zinc sulphate
copper sulfate
maganese sulfate

keep the edta micro nutes in the event you ever wish to foliar feed but personally i dont use them in my concentrates



the maximum concentration ratio i have mixed without issue is a dose of 7.5mls per gallon part A/B = roughly 4x the concentration of the 1:128 ratio