Schwaggy P's Random Stuff

outliergenetix

outliergenetix

Well-Known Member
hey shwaggy 'nother question. that last pollen collection i did was a giant mess lol, the pollen cloud coming off that male was way more than i bargained for and while it was in another room in a closet and i work "au naturale" whith it and shower after there is no way pollen isn't gonna be an issue. ik they say dont even do this in the same location, but as i've said this is all for me so i dont mind seeds when i know where they came from and i also don't mind screening the bud for hash if too seeded but i would like to keep accidental pollination at a minimum
anyway, the idea i was gonna try is affter they sex and show male i was gonna cut all but one "shoot" or branch off so i only have one small cola of pollen. i was even gonna just keep a lower not even a big cola. will this shock the plant too much, effect pollen in anyway ya think or is it an overal bad idea. i want to be able to see the males flower out so i can pick one that smells and is frosty as well as get an idea of the node/bud density it may pass on. if i am to do this i need to keep pollen to minimum yet still acheive my goal.
this came about when i wentto kill my male that was in full bloom and just cutting it down and stuffing it in a plastic back made a pollen cloud that would make the smog in L.A jealous.

fyi, i misted the whole area after i shoulda done it prior tho. to give you more info to i will only do pollen and males for runs i crack seeds for. i think i will alterant clone runs and seed runs in the future but i'm two runs away from being able to do that since i am still going thru the mint choc trips and jabbas. once i run these out i will keep any stinky males as clones and the pollen from the run. then i'll do a full clone run with no chance of pollination with the best females while i wait for the previous one to cure so i can make a final selection on the females. then i will prolly kill the inferior females and be left with 1-3 males one of which i already have and the other two will be the best form the mint chooctrip and the best fromt he jababs if they fit my requirements. eventually i will narrow down the males and get rid of what doesnt breed well but that will take a while i assume as i will need to run a cpl crisses using the pollen to see if the male is a true keeper.

you got any advise or a simpler plan?
 
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Schwaggy P

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
outliergenetix said:
you got any advise or a simpler plan?
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If you're doing personal pollinations and want to keep it manageable, follow my older post about flowering out males in a storage tote. You could cut the males back to only one branch without worrying about the quality of the pollen. A hard pruning may affect a plants ability to produce pollen (shock and rehab to bounce back) but wouldn't be something that could alter the genetics of the pollen it does produce.

I keep all seed runs in veg until they sex (6-8wks) before taking cuts and flowering. If you let them sex in veg, you could take the top of the males, root, and immediately flip them (using the storage tote flowering procedure) that way you have a veg copy of him if you want to keep him for further breeding. This will keep them very manageable, reduce flower room space sexing plants that will eventually be culled anyway, and produce plenty of pollen for personal pollinations. You could store the pollen and have it on hand for any females hitting the pollination window.

If you want to pollinate a round of females, but want to only breed the "keeper" female, just do a small single branch dusting of each female. Then when you harvest them and keep their seeds marked for pheno, you'll already have seeds of the keeper female. Then you can use the loser female seeds for experiments.

As far as "seeing" the males flower out, the small cloned male flowering in the tote will give you the idea of flower density, clustering, stretch, smell. You would be "in the dark" about the branching tendency if you're pruning them back to keep one flowering branch. The true test of the males will be growing out the progeny to see how he passes those traits you liked during his pollen dropping.
 
outliergenetix

outliergenetix

Well-Known Member
Schwaggy P said:
If you're doing personal pollinations and want to keep it manageable, follow my older post about flowering out males in a storage tote. You could cut the males back to only one branch without worrying about the quality of the pollen. A hard pruning may affect a plants ability to produce pollen (shock and rehab to bounce back) but wouldn't be something that could alter the genetics of the pollen it does produce.

I keep all seed runs in veg until they sex (6-8wks) before taking cuts and flowering. If you let them sex in veg, you could take the top of the males, root, and immediately flip them (using the storage tote flowering procedure) that way you have a veg copy of him if you want to keep him for further breeding. This will keep them very manageable, reduce flower room space sexing plants that will eventually be culled anyway, and produce plenty of pollen for personal pollinations. You could store the pollen and have it on hand for any females hitting the pollination window.

If you want to pollinate a round of females, but want to only breed the "keeper" female, just do a small single branch dusting of each female. Then when you harvest them and keep their seeds marked for pheno, you'll already have seeds of the keeper female. Then you can use the loser female seeds for experiments.

As far as "seeing" the males flower out, the small cloned male flowering in the tote will give you the idea of flower density, clustering, stretch, smell. You would be "in the dark" about the branching tendency if you're pruning them back to keep one flowering branch. The true test of the males will be growing out the progeny to see how he passes those traits you liked during his pollen dropping.
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okay thanks imma go look at your tote thing i think i saw that cpl months ago i forgot about it. ik i heard bodhi say he mainly uses frost to select his males, this was prolly the largest reason i wanted to take them pretty far into flower.
cpl thigns real quick.
1. my the current run in week4-5 seems haavily seeded already. admitedly this was from pulling that male too late from the room. i kinda thought this would happen, my question is i see fat ass green seeds busting the clayx looking things open(forget what tey are called lol) anyway as i said this pollen was from early flower like super early as that male flowered way faster as a whole. will these seeds be over done in 4 weeks ya think? they have prolly been cooking 3 andthey look huge and hard just green. they are also on the top colas right under the lights to.
2. do you take pollen from all your males fist run or do you do a mini selection based on veg.
3. you said you sex in veg, while i have been able to tell sex when they are very mature as i've mostly run large plants in the past i struggled to do this with these smaller ones. i only veg in 18/6 so mine grow super slow plus they are in soil. any tips here on sexing in veg without flowering a clone cut. in general i look for the long slender less bilbous growth at the node is this how you do it?
 
Schwaggy P

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
outliergenetix said:
1. my the current run in week4-5 seems haavily seeded already. admitedly this was from pulling that male too late from the room. i kinda thought this would happen, my question is i see fat ass green seeds busting the clayx looking things open(forget what tey are called lol) anyway as i said this pollen was from early flower like super early as that male flowered way faster as a whole. will these seeds be over done in 4 weeks ya think? they have prolly been cooking 3 andthey look huge and hard just green. they are also on the top colas right under the lights to.
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The seeds being "overdone" is just a time at which the fully formed seed bract begins to turn necrotic and "die off". If you let the pollinated female go as long as you can, the bracts will turn brown, and the seeds can fall out, but the seed doesn't "overcook" and suffer. The individual pollinated sights on the female begin forming seeds at different rates based on the time of pollination, so they won't all be at the same maturity phase at once. You'll have some immature seeds when you harvest.
bracts.jpg
outliergenetix said:
2. do you take pollen from all your males fist run or do you do a mini selection based on veg.
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This depends on the specific project. If I wanted to take a project to F3, I'd pick my single selected F2 male for the pollination. If I would be trying to preserve a line, I would flower and collect the pollen of multiple males to keep the gene pool variance as open as possible. Generally, if you are goal oriented breeding, you will make a male selection based on whatever your goals are (taller, sturdier,purple, etc.). There is some great info to be gained by your veg plants, so you can get structure, stem rubs, and training info.
outliergenetix said:
3. you said you sex in veg, while i have been able to tell sex when they are very mature as i've mostly run large plants in the past i struggled to do this with these smaller ones. i only veg in 18/6 so mine grow super slow plus they are in soil. any tips here on sexing in veg without flowering a clone cut. in general i look for the long slender less bilbous growth at the node is this how you do it?
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I run my veg area on 24hrs in soil. I just grow out seeds until preflowers form. At this point I take all my veg trait notes and cloning to then go into the hydro systems. It takes about 6-8wks from seed until the preflowers start to show. Node characters would come into my selection calculus if the project called for it, otherwise I wouldn't discriminate against more robust nodes.
 
CoB_nUt

CoB_nUt

Well-Known Member
Male#3 Tallest of the 3.Longest internal space also.I'll get stem rubs after I wash my hands @Schwaggy.20190421_112658.jpg 20190421_112723.jpg Female FPOG ×Cherry Sunshine will be topped for clone and put back into veg.I may keep her in the solo,or up-pot to a 1/2gal.Waiting on supplies sux.

edit*^ The stems on this cross are phat for solo cups.
 

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CoB_nUt

CoB_nUt

Well-Known Member
@Schwaggy,I'm just gonna ask.IF you were looking to F1 this cross would you do an open pollination with these 3 or do you see a good guy in here that stands out?I'm not going to I just want your perspective.
 
Schwaggy P

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
CoB_nUt said:
@Schwaggy,I'm just gonna ask.IF you were looking to F1 this cross would you do an open pollination with these 3 or do you see a good guy in here that stands out?I'm not going to I just want your perspective.
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If I were going to take them one more generation and liked what I see in the female's features, I'd choose the male that looks the most similar. If I wanted to keep the taller Cherry Sunshine expressions in the pool for further hunting, I'd choose the lankier male. I would only bother with multiple male pollen for preservations or back-crossing.
 
CoB_nUt

CoB_nUt

Well-Known Member
Schwaggy P said:
If I were going to take them one more generation and liked what I see in the female's features, I'd choose the male that looks the most similar. If I wanted to keep the taller Cherry Sunshine expressions in the pool for further hunting, I'd choose the lankier male. I would only bother with multiple male pollen for preservations or back-crossing.
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Thank you.I may let him flower and scoop some pollen before exiling him to the scrap bin.Lol I hate to get rid of plants feel like I'm tossing great possibilities away.
HydroRed said:
@CoB_nUt girly def looking FPOG leaner. Look at those fat fans haha
I bet shes gonna be a winner.
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She's the lone female oit of the bunch.She HAS to be a star.lol.
 
outliergenetix

outliergenetix

Well-Known Member
Schwaggy P said:
View attachment 4312409
I decided to try out Terpinator for a current run and have found that it really improves the intensity of the smell. It is something that I would like to incorporate into my nutrient regimen. Unfortunately, the required dosage and relatively steep price has me hesitant to commit.

The label reads: Soluble Potash (K2O)……4.0%, Derived from Potassium Sulfate
Add 5-10mL/gal in veg
Add 10-30mL/gal in flower

So I have decided to try to replicate this additive by mixing my own Potassium Sulfate solution and testing it on a run of the same cut that has responded well to Terpinator.

I have done some calculations and found that in order to create the same concentration of Soluble Potash derived from Potassium Sulfate, I will need to add 300g of Potassium Sulfate per gallon of water (The math is included below).

:!:PLEASE NOTE: I have yet to apply this to plants. I will be testing this mixture and making notes of any issues/successes and suggestions for possible further adjustment. Do not try this at home (yet). Neither Schwaggy P, nor any Schwaggy P subsidiaries are responsible for any grower attempting this recipe or the results thereof.

MATERIALS
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One gallon distilled water
Potassium Sulfate
Container for the solution
Scale
Gloves
Flask (optional for smaller mixed solutions)

PROCEDURE
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Wearing gloves, mass the Potassium Sulfate (pic 1).

:!:Make sure to weigh out amounts that your scale can handle. If your scale cannot handle 300g measurements, mass several “batches” of Potassium Sulfate to equal 300g

Carefully transfer the Potassium Sulfate into your container (pic 2).

:!:A funnel may be helpful

Pour about half of the distilled water into the container (pic3).

:!:Filling only half way allows room for you to shake the solution and assist the dissolving process

Shake the container vigorously (pic 4), then fill the container with the remaining half of distilled water. At this point you have a one-gallon terpene-enhancing additive for less than 1/10th the cost of the store bought version.

TESTING
View attachment 4312412
I decided to see what the TDS contribution would be of both solutions. I added 0.5mL of each solution to their own sample of distilled water and measured the increase in TDS. The dosage is equivalent to the median recommended feeding dosage of 20mL/gallon.

In Series A, the Terp Enhancinator contributed an increase of 251.5ppm(0.5 scale)
In series B, the Terpinator contributed an increase of 379.9ppm

The DIY mix is a colorless and odorless solution, while the Terpinator has a yellowish color with a smell. These additions may explain the slight increased TDS contribution of the Terpinator. The take-away for me is that my DIY mix is not an astronomical overshoot of something like 2,600ppm. The relatively closeness of the ppm suggests the solution is not going to severely alter my reservoir chemistry.

View attachment 4312413
I took a sample of nutrient solution from a reservoir to test possible precipitate formation upon addition of the DIY mix. There was no visible precipitate formation when a 10ml/gal equivalent dosage was applied. The reservoir nutrient solution had a starting concentration of 635ppm (pic 5) and finished with a 730ppm (pic 6) concentration after the DIY mix was added.

Since the final DIY mix had a slightly lower concentration contribution than the Terpinator (expected since there are more non nutritive additions) and there was friendly interaction with nutrient solution, I feel this will be okay to try on my plants. I will use begin using this mix as directed to best replicate the Terpinator and assess the performance. I will update as things progress.

REFERENCE
Potassium Sulfate MSDS
https://n.b5z.net/i/u/10066364/f/Potassium_Sulfate_-_MSDS.pdf
Potassium Sulfate Spec Sheet
https://alphachemicals.com/i/u/10066364/f/Potassium_Sulfate_-_Spec.pdf

MATH
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cool idea to make your own. ik you prolly heard me postulate on this before but i believe sulfur is the key and given this terpenator is made from potash from sulfer it makes sense with what i already thought. pretty sure i wrote a long thing before and sent it to you or posted it about skunk cabbage and how sulfurs are the driving force that creates necrotic, skunk and garlic smells and others that certain plants use as bio protectants or bio attractents. in the case of skunk cabbage they use it to atract insects that feed on flesh and rotting material. i wont bore or bother you with more becausde i think you prolly know this or maybe i already sent you my long version citing a research paper or two on skunk cabbage and it's use of sulfur to make dimethyl disulfide and other sulfides(9 in total) that create the smell as i stated. what is interesting tho is these are not terpenes i actually forget the name tbh. this is not far from the idea kevin jodrey has put forth about why the old road kill skunk and burnt rubbers are elusive this day, he postualted it was esters or esthers not sure how to spellt it, but basicaly the esthers are a bioprotectant for some plants.
also i cannot find your post on keeping males in totes anywhere. i literally went thru all 27 heare even re-reading most of the thread, which explains why i was liking old posts lol and even replied to one. was that post you mentioned in a diff thread?
 
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Schwaggy P

Schwaggy P

Well-Known Member
Schwaggy P said:
I would like to share my method of pollen collecting and targeted single branch pollination. If you decide to replicate this process for yourself, please be warned that having a male dropping pollen requires great care. I have organized this information into 3 sections: Flowering the Male, Collecting/Storing Pollen, and Pollinating a Single Branch.

FLOWERING THE MALE
View attachment 4257042

I usually take clones of males to keep their size manageable. Once they are rooted, I plant them in a 3” square pot and put them in a clear storage tote (pic 1). You will want to keep the tote lid slightly ajar to allow for air exchange.

Where to keep him depends on whether you have a free tent, separate veg space, or just another room with sunlight. For times when all tents are taken, I keep the male in my veg area (pic 2). It is important to remember that he will be separated from the flowering females.

:idea: In the corner of your veg room or peripheral splash over light is just fine to trigger the male. There’s no need to put him 3” beneath a 1000W DE, I’ve flowered males from the spillover light of a T5.

If you have a single tent with females flowering, the ambient light in another room is enough to accomplish our task.

The 12hr dark cycle is achieved by placing a box over the male’s clear tote (pic 3). This 12/12 box covering will trigger and maintain flowering through the entire process until you’ve collected enough pollen.

:idea: Make sure the box is large enough to cover your storage tote before you begin.

If you are triggering a male for a one-time pollination without storing pollen, then timing will be important. Males will usually develop flowers pretty quickly relative to their female flower setting counterparts. Since we want our females to have a decent flowerset to accept pollen, we have to give her some time to develop them. With most strains, weeks 3-4 will give us the best window to have both nice flower setting and early enough to give the seeds time to mature.

:idea: Don’t trigger your male until about day 10 of flower for your females. This gives females the head start to ensure there will be nice sized buds to give you seeds, as well as not have to deal with and worry about a male dumping tons of pollen too early.

This 12/12 box cycle will continue for the duration of pollen collection.

:idea: You want to approach most things in this process slowly and carefully. There is no extra credit for speed. Being gentle and deliberate with him will ensure any pollen stays within the tote. Pretend you’re doing tai chi at the senior center when you interact with him.

As you gain confidence and success with this process, you can flower multiple males simultaneously (pic 4).

View attachment 4257043
Keep in mind, the goal here is to be aware of his maturity in order to collect pollen long before he creates dust storms. At first, his flowers will be small balls (pic 5) that are not much of a threat to your females at this point. As they begin to develop, you will notice that they cluster and start to hang (pic 6). Usually this timeline window can be from 10-20 days. As the male flowers begin to individualize from the clusters you are now on pollen watch.

:idea: This is the point at which you will need to be very careful about moving him around and watering him.

Once you begin to see the male flowers open, the yellowish anthers will be visible (pic 7) but not drop pollen just yet. The pollen is only hours away at this point, so remain vigilant. If you try to collect pollen as soon as the male flower opens, you’ll find no pollen freely drops, so wait until you see the anthers go from a tight smooth sheen, to bloated matte yellow (pic 8 ).

If you find that you are having issue timing the pollen drop, you can wait until one of the flowers releases pollen onto a leaf below (pic 9).

The male flowers will reach maturity at different rates, which we can use to our advantage. The older male flowers will be first to drop and keep in mind we are only needing a few flowers worth of pollen in order to pollinate multiple single branches. By collecting the first few pollen drops, we are containing the threat of stray pollen.
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