Why do my yields suck ?
- Thread starter Hipposcottamus1
- Start date
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
I'm pointing out that this is what leads to inaccuracy. People misunderstanding the process and counting from flip when they shouldn't. Also many new growers don't fully understand what flowers are
. For growers that know when to harvest, and how the plants grow it really doesn't matter if you count at all. The plants finish when they finish.
But for new growers that read things in "canna-bro grow books" written by old hippies instead of scientists, or read things on forums like this just from other people that grow, it's easy for that misunderstanding to get spread. It took me a couple years of growing and reading general plant growth information to realize the mistake I was making because I didn't fully understand the plant.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
You bring up another great point. MANY growers, but especially new growers harvest early because they don't fully understand the plant.
Chopping early is another thing that will kill yields. Cannabis plants put on huge amounts of weight during the final swell. I've watched strong branches get bent over sideways in a matter of days at the end.
Beantown_greentown
Member
Brother. Genetics and light are huge. But there’s a million other things. Pm. Powdery mildew or any kind of funk will stunt em. Not that that’s your case but disease is something to look at. Have you tested your water. Probably I’m just too lazy to read. Here’s an easy easy beginners tip.
315 ceramic metal halides kick ass grow better than 600s hps. But honestly the hps adds to it so best idea for a tent with four plants is a 600 and a 315 or one 630 cmh. They kick ass. Then again you could air cool one 1000 watt hps and grow a four pound plant pretty easy. Especially in something like a 30 gallon trash barrel with six air stones going.
Read on the 17 nutrients and elements that plants need to grow properly. And I’ll say this you won’t find em all in one food. Your gonna be trying things out and getting better and better in every run.
The law of the minimum is so true. Basically a plant won’t thrive because you pump it full of the three basic nutes N-P-K. It’s gonna be held back by what it’s got the least of. And I find with most people I see. Cal. Mag and some people aren’t even Considering micronutrients. When they start at least. An easy beginner run
Promix. Five gallon buckets
Puravida grow and bloom.
Earthjuice micro blast.
Or if you really wanna have amazing herbs with awesome end result in weight I find nectar for the gods line of nutrients kicks fucking ass.
Pruning is big. fim top or lst is a must to increase end weight.
Larger buckets. More medium and more light. Good water airflow. Don’t go tossing in stupid shit like the bloom boosters till you have a genetic down and a mom you know what to expect from otherwise your not even gonna know if it helps
315 ceramic metal halides kick ass grow better than 600s hps. But honestly the hps adds to it so best idea for a tent with four plants is a 600 and a 315 or one 630 cmh. They kick ass. Then again you could air cool one 1000 watt hps and grow a four pound plant pretty easy. Especially in something like a 30 gallon trash barrel with six air stones going.
Read on the 17 nutrients and elements that plants need to grow properly. And I’ll say this you won’t find em all in one food. Your gonna be trying things out and getting better and better in every run.
The law of the minimum is so true. Basically a plant won’t thrive because you pump it full of the three basic nutes N-P-K. It’s gonna be held back by what it’s got the least of. And I find with most people I see. Cal. Mag and some people aren’t even Considering micronutrients. When they start at least. An easy beginner run
Promix. Five gallon buckets
Puravida grow and bloom.
Earthjuice micro blast.
Or if you really wanna have amazing herbs with awesome end result in weight I find nectar for the gods line of nutrients kicks fucking ass.
Pruning is big. fim top or lst is a must to increase end weight.
Larger buckets. More medium and more light. Good water airflow. Don’t go tossing in stupid shit like the bloom boosters till you have a genetic down and a mom you know what to expect from otherwise your not even gonna know if it helps
Beantown_greentown
Member
Omg. Right. People think the moment they switch to twelve they start the count. Fuck the count. The count doesn’t mean shit these days because honestly you have no clue what your really getting from most breeders
Beantown_greentown
Member
When you think your plant is done. Wait a week. Growers have been giving this advice forever and it’s great advice Because people pull way too early. You have to wait for the magic change and when you see it. You’ll know it. 
Thirty gallon plant under a 315. 315 watt cmh lamps kick ass.
Thirty gallon plant under a 315. 315 watt cmh lamps kick ass.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Could you name what breeders do this?
Do they use a microscope or go by eye?
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
I just sent this to MNS. I shall up date when I get a reply. If Neville (RIP) counted from the Flip then everyone who followed/s should do just that as nearly everything on the market has been touched by him.
I've also msg Kevin Jodrey and hopefully get his response. Not many people would sell and look after as many clones as he does to/for farmers.
"G'day,
There has been some talk recently that most breeders use the first signs of flowering as the 1st flowering date rather than the switch to 12/12. Which seems like allot of work and is not very accurate. Does MNS use from the switch or from the first sign of flower? If you use from the switch do you know of any reputable breeder who uses something different?
Regards"
I've also msg Kevin Jodrey and hopefully get his response. Not many people would sell and look after as many clones as he does to/for farmers.
"G'day,
There has been some talk recently that most breeders use the first signs of flowering as the 1st flowering date rather than the switch to 12/12. Which seems like allot of work and is not very accurate. Does MNS use from the switch or from the first sign of flower? If you use from the switch do you know of any reputable breeder who uses something different?
Regards"
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hawse
Well-Known Member
Second that opinion on NFTG nutes, really good stuff and beginner friendly I think. Also agree you need more light - I started with a 350watt Vipar like that, and ended up much happier after I got some brighter HPS's... Now i run the LED's too for supplemental and veg too... And yeah I don't do autos either, but from the looks of it too much training which would equate to too little veg time I think...
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
I have no idea why they would use a microscope. That seems pointless. Going off of visual formation of flowers is by far more accurate then the arbitrary 12/12 flip. Different phenos and cultivars take different amounts of time to transition.
Please tell me how breeders that grow outdoors count from the 12/12 flip.................It doesn't happen, because the plants start flowering at different times, and you wouldn't say a plant is flowering that wasn't right??
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Kevin Jodrey got back to me pretty fast. This is what he has to say:
"
Kevin Jodrey
10:14
I use 12/12 as when do we actually know the period has begun?
Elongation, first sign of pistols...
People use what they want
I use when I flip to when I cut
Outdoor I use when I see extension to finish as it varies a bit year to year
Indoor never varies if we repeat the process the same way
buyyouabeer
Well-Known Member
They never say a time for outdoor; more like "mid October". No one states the flowering time from first signs since it is arbitrary, and at best indeterminate. I have seen you state this over and over but there is just no way to know when it actually switches. Regardless it is meaningless, plants can't count and it will be done when it is.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
12/12 doesn't apply to outdoor- never has, they start flowering well before the light cycle gets to 12/12 normally/ @ganga gurl420 posted a good thread on outdoor and 12/12. ill see if I can find it for you.
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rob333
Well-Known Member
hate to say but led would be your major issue there peace
KushKing420x
Member
I think you’re toping them too early let them grow til like 8-10 nodes high before toping for larger yields.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Lol I know they don't need 12/12 outdoor, I understand how the plants grow. That's my point, they begin flowering when they start forming flowers. Yes its still a slight guess depending on exactly what day "you" consider it to be "forming flowers". HOWEVER that is still FAR more accurate then just the arbitrary 12/12 date.
Look I'm not here to argue, I'm well aware that many growers count from 12/12. I'm not here to change how you run your garden.
The reason I share this info is to help people(new growers esspecially) better understand the actual growth patterns and process the plants are going through. An experienced grower realizes that the plants aren't "flowering" right at 12/12 and they know how to watch for the proper harvest signs so when they count from doesn't matter.
All these new growers that listen to breeder time suggestions, and start religiously counting from 12/12 flip end up with crap buds that get harvested early, or they end up here posting "my plant is at 49 days and the breeder said 7-8 weeks is it ready?" And everyone has to explain no it really needs another 2-3 weeks. Well, the reason it needs 2-3 more weeks is because of the transition period that for whatever reason some indoor cannabis growers like to ignore.
Lucky Luke
Well-Known Member
Im just disagreeing with people when they say "breeders go from flower formation and not 12/12" Cause that's wrong IMO and then new growers repeat it. Which is why I asked earlier which breeder does this? As far as im aware none do (happy to be proved wrong).
12/12 is the most accurate way. Move plants into flower room and start counting. Day 1.
Reason they go longer is most breeders post clone times and have a very on point grow room. Clones as u know finish faster.
Zephyrs
Well-Known Member
Hell I have 6 in pots that just finished there pre flower stretch. They are outdoor monster cropped clones in pots. There mother plants are down in the lower field in the natural ground and they are already filled in a solid 3 weeks of budding. Same strain, same lighting, different techniques, who'd a ever think that.