Why do my yields suck ?

JayBio420 said:

I think the miscommunication was the time it takes from clone or seed to flowering harvest VS the time it takes from start of flowering with a mature plant. But the third thing he mentioned is that due to several competing factors, preflower period can vary and thus, a more accurate counting regimen is had by counting after they have stopped stretching. I’ve taken data from many clones of my same Tangie, and had preflowering times change by 20-40% based on the size of the plant, it’s health, it’s proximity to the light and other environment stuff.

To be honest, I use a ballpark figure of 8-10 weeks and watch the plant for full mass and then ripeness. The counting thing is too inaccurate.

Thunder isn’t trying to come off as arrogant, I think you may be misreading him. He knows his stuff and is being helpful. You sound like you know your stuff too. Let’s keep this dialogue respectful.

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Exactly you get it, thank you!

On your tangle even though the preflower times varied so much was the actual flower time very similar?

Also I would add a note. I completely stopped counting flower time years ago, unless I'm doing a test run for a breeder. Once I learned how the plants grow and what signs to look for to harvest I didn't see the point.

Thundercat said:

Exactly you get it, thank you!

On your tangle even though the preflower times varied so much was the actual flower time very similar?

Also I would add a note. I completely stopped counting flower time years ago, unless I'm doing a test run for a breeder. Once I learned how the plants grow and what signs to look for to harvest I didn't see the point.

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Yep, that’s basically the case. The last ones through preflower are the last to get chopped. They all have a standard period after preflower is over and compounding begins. Due to my perpetual, I simply select the ripest for chop. That data is really good to have for a more exact estimate, but in the end I evaluate a plant on a few things before I liberate her from my soil!

So still no names and links of reputable breeders who don't count from flip suppled?
Can we say myth busted?

Just on the clones finishing faster. I see a pretty standard 4 to 6 day earlier finish from clones over the seed plants and I only flower mature plants. Guessing people in hydro and/or with better lights might see better. I normally run seeds and take clones when the seed plant goes into flower. This gives me a ball park on the timeline for the flowering period of the clone. When the clone goes into the flower tent (and a clones taken) I now have a ball park finishing date, when that clones clone goes into the flower tent I have a near dead on date that that will be finished and can sort my veg and seedling areas to move to diff areas accordingly.
Its nice to know that the clone u just took will take exactly 70 days to finish flowering once u put her under 12/12.Its nice to know that the cloned seedling u just put into veg has 70 days of veg before she replacers the flowering clone in the flowering tent. Nice accurate numbers.

Lucky Luke said:

So still no names and links of reputable breeders who don't count from flip suppled?
Can we say myth busted?

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Because breeders have a market interest in misleading flowering times. Heck, I learned from dozens of independent growers on this site alone that seed sellers and breeders times aren’t accurate. Your 70 day strain is advertised as an 8 week strain?

A lot of websites start saying something like 8-9 weeks, which to me is more accurate (and paradoxically, ironically??) then saying every single plant will be ready at noon on Friday.

JayBio420 said:

I think the miscommunication was the time it takes from clone or seed to flowering harvest VS the time it takes from start of flowering with a mature plant. But the third thing he mentioned is that due to several competing factors, preflower period can vary and thus, a more accurate counting regimen is had by counting after they have stopped stretching. I’ve taken data from many clones of my same Tangie, and had preflowering times change by 20-40% based on the size of the plant, it’s health, it’s proximity to the light and other environment stuff.

To be honest, I use a ballpark figure of 8-10 weeks and watch the plant for full mass and then ripeness. The counting thing is too inaccurate.

Thunder isn’t trying to come off as arrogant, I think you may be misreading him. He knows his stuff and is being helpful. You sound like you know your stuff too. Let’s keep this dialogue respectful.

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We all know our stuff, that is my point. He wasn't talking to the thread starter although this is his thread, he was quoting and talking to people who have been growing longer than him. I don't find it arrogant, I find it annoying, I just think he is a wanker for talking that way like he is teaching us. Not one single person he was talking to says, 55 days from flip...time to cut. We all go by trichomes and experience. And I will say it again, clones are 100% faster than plants from seed because nobody is talking about mothers when they make a statement about that and only an ass would even bring up mothers. Nuff said.

JayBio420 said:

Because breeders have a market interest in misleading flowering times. Heck, I learned from dozens of independent growers on this site alone that seed sellers and breeders times aren’t accurate. Your 70 day strain is advertised as an 8 week strain?

A lot of websites start saying something like 8-9 weeks, which to me is more accurate (and paradoxically, ironically??) then saying every single plant will be ready at noon on Friday.

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Plenty get the advertised timelines when they run top of the line set ups (just like breeders do). If ur going to run soil or 600w HPS lights and no AC then of cause its going to take longer- just like running from seed will. Run hydro 1000w (or equivalent) lights, sealed room and from clone then id expect the timeless to be pretty accurate from the vast majority of respected breeders.

Its a advertised 55-60 and I do take them longer than most. If i grew in Hydro and had better environment control i could see 60. I could easily harvest 7 days earlier than i do now as it is, most would so id only need to save 3 days.

Im not arguing that plants often take longer to finish than advertised which is usually due to people not understanding what the rough timeline means. Im arguing that breeders use 12/12 as their flowering times not onset of flowering. I have even gone to the trouble of msging Kevin Jodrey and suppled his answer. You can argue back all you like but please at least use some ammunition.
What respected breeders do not use 12/12? None? Time to bust this myth and stop passing bad info on to new growers.

3 leters my dude. LEDz. Ok 4 letters. Hps all the way!

and got the reply back from MNS:

Mr Nice Seedbank - Scott Blakey <info@mrnice.nl>

25 Aug. at 9:03 pm

Hi

flowering is calculated from the day of 12 12...not first sign of flowering as this is different for all hybrids. No one i know uses the visual signs as onset of flowering as we all know it is btn 10 days and 2 weeks for this to occur at 12 12. All the best Sb




Myth well and truly busterd.
Time to pour petrol on it and set it on fire and stop spreading misinformation.

.

Lucky Luke said:

and got the reply back from MNS:

Mr Nice Seedbank - Scott Blakey <info@mrnice.nl>

25 Aug. at 9:03 pm

Hi

flowering is calculated from the day of 12 12...not first sign of flowering as this is different for all hybrids. No one i know uses the visual signs as onset of flowering as we all know it is btn 10 days and 2 weeks for this to occur at 12 12. All the best Sb




Myth well and truly busterd.
Time to pour petrol on it and set it on fire and stop spreading misinformation.

.

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Thanks that clears up a lot

Lucky Luke said:

and got the reply back from MNS:

Mr Nice Seedbank - Scott Blakey <info@mrnice.nl>

25 Aug. at 9:03 pm

Hi

flowering is calculated from the day of 12 12...not first sign of flowering as this is different for all hybrids. No one i know uses the visual signs as onset of flowering as we all know it is btn 10 days and 2 weeks for this to occur at 12 12. All the best Sb




Myth well and truly busterd.
Time to pour petrol on it and set it on fire and stop spreading misinformation.

.

Click to expand...

LOL awesome

Lucky Luke said:

and got the reply back from MNS:

Mr Nice Seedbank - Scott Blakey <info@mrnice.nl>

25 Aug. at 9:03 pm

Hi

flowering is calculated from the day of 12 12...not first sign of flowering as this is different for all hybrids. No one i know uses the visual signs as onset of flowering as we all know it is btn 10 days and 2 weeks for this to occur at 12 12. All the best Sb




Myth well and truly busterd.
Time to pour petrol on it and set it on fire and stop spreading misinformation.

.

Click to expand...

Lol always has been but ppl just like to mess w stuff and make claims with lack of knowledge. All good

Craigson said:

Lol always has been but ppl just like to mess w stuff and make claims with lack of knowledge. All good

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I haven’t made a single claim that has been “busted”. So one breeders has said he counts from flip. Breeders use shorter times than most people use, and Luke literally just agreed he goes longer. I also
Never said breeders count from whenever, I said if you I include pre-flowering time in your 60 day strain you will chop early the majority of the time.

The guy said “No one I know counts from after preflower” (And No one I know counts from flip)

He also said “it is between 10-14 days at 12/12 lighting. Well don’t you know, a 40% difference!!! If you read Uup you’ll see where I said exactly this occurs, which is WHY I count from after preflower.

All of what i said still holds true. You guys need to quit thinking in black and white. Feel free to use whatever method you choose, just don’t harvest early. Actually, go ahead, doesn’t matter to me. Happy growing!

Lucky Luke said:

and got the reply back from MNS:

Mr Nice Seedbank - Scott Blakey <info@mrnice.nl>

25 Aug. at 9:03 pm

Hi

flowering is calculated from the day of 12 12...not first sign of flowering as this is different for all hybrids. No one i know uses the visual signs as onset of flowering as we all know it is btn 10 days and 2 weeks for this to occur at 12 12. All the best Sb




Myth well and truly busterd.
Time to pour petrol on it and set it on fire and stop spreading misinformation.

.

Click to expand...

If you’re busting myths with one persons anecdotes, you ain’t busting anything bro. You’re doing the same
Thing everyone else does which is spread what they’ve heard from someone else. We aren’t breeders we are growers. There is a difference. Telling people to chop early is worse then telling them to look for visual clues... what interest does a breeder have to let a flowering plant ripen again?

JayBio420 said:

If you’re busting myths with one persons anecdotes, you ain’t busting anything bro. You’re doing the same
Thing everyone else does which is spread what they’ve heard from someone else. We aren’t breeders we are growers. There is a difference. Telling people to chop early is worse then telling them to look for visual clues... what interest does a breeder have to let a flowering plant ripen again?

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Ppl count from switch to 12/12 and have for like 30+ yrs. it dont really matter when you start counting in the end as long as you let it finish.
We all know proper way now a days is to check trichs anyway.(which ppl always chop too late anyway) so theres that too.
I say ppl hop too late because thc is at its max when most cloudy trichs possible. Waiting for 30% amber to get a diff stone is an awful suggestion. Al that does is get you more degraded thc. If you want a diff stone then grow a diff strain for your needs

This ones a little too hot for me.

Everyone is free to evaluate and calculate your flowering how you choose. I reccomend using dates, pistols, General flowering look and trichomes, as well as your intuition to decide. I can’t claim to be 100% right here. Enjoy.

JayBio420 said:

This ones a little too hot for me.

Everyone is free to evaluate and calculate your flowering how you choose. I reccomend using dates, pistols, General flowering look and trichomes, as well as your intuition to decide. I can’t claim to be 100% right here. Enjoy.

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Agreed. I do try to tell ppl to do what makes you happy and gets u the meds you want.
Have a good one
Cheers

When you start counting the days isn't the problem. Cutting a plant based on a number written on a website is the problem. Damn near every day on this forum an inexperienced grower either chops or is about to chop their first grow and decide to make sure they've done the right thing. What inevitably follows is a string of experienced growers saying 'at least two more weeks' and 'not even close' or 'why did you chop that!? That had at least 10 more days of swell'. This is followed by 'but the website said...' or 'the pack says it's an 8 week strain' with much angst and indignation.
All you seasoned growers getting huffy with Thunder should chill. What he is saying isn't for you. We all know that you know full well when you like to harvest. Good on you. Nobody is challenging your knowledge or credibility. What he is saying is for newbs that damn near always harvest early because they think a breeder's flowering times are a set of instructions as opposed to a general guideline.

again, if you are quoting me you are talking to me. If you are quoting me to make a point to a new grower then you are a bigger wanker.

DaFreak said:

again, if you are quoting me you are talking to me. If you are quoting me to make a point to a new grower then you are a bigger wanker.

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So do you just love to argue and resort to ad hominem? I saw you go from disagreeing to calling somebody names in like two posts. Get a grip. There is real shit in the world to get wound up about. Is hard to be nice?