Roots Organic Nutrients - Low PH Problems

[VermontOG]

I've been using Roots Organics nutrients since last winter. I began by using some of them eventually, I have the whole line up. I'm starting to second guess my decision.
1. Last season indoors I PH adjusted even though the company said not to use PH + or - becasue it will kill microbes, etc. I manged to get a decent harvest. (I'm a newbie, that was like my 2nd or 3rd crop)
2. Switched to Outdoor in 25gal smart pots this summer with my own 'mix' potting soil, compost, topsoil..... had a nice summer but not super robust as in year's past. I kinda assumed it was the lack of daylight I get. I started not adjusting the PH because I wanted to learn about going all organic. The PH of the nutrients when mixed according to their schedule came out to be like 4.5-5 at best :/ I would bubble for 2-3 days and could get it up over 6pm. Everything seemed ok, had to harvest early because the cold damp VT fall came and had to harvest early because of bud rot.
3. This fall moved back indoor and was super excited to see this line work magic. took my clones from end of summer in 4" pots and veg. inside for like 3-4weeks. All good, barely fed them. (Using 100% FFOF - I know I'm a newb) Moved them into 1/2 gal pots and veg for another 2-3weeks. Started feeding according to Roots schedule and bubbling the mix to get the ph above 6. Sometimes you struggle when the schedule starts adding more nutes to get the PH out of the 5's with aeration alone.
4. After 4 weeks saw yellowing on new growth and thought either a deficiency or getting pot bound. I wanted to get ready to flower anyway so I moved to 5gal pots (Final home) I watered only and added microbes. for like 1 week or so. The plants rebounded awesome. and looked ready to flower.
5. 2.5 weeks after transplant into 5 gal. I switched the light. started noticing the yellowing again. Just like the 1/2 gal. pots. This time I knew it shouldnt be pot bound and pretty damn certain their wasn't def because i'd been feeding regular. So I checked PH.
6. The runoff was coming out at like 5! The last feeding went in at almost 7 and came out at 5. This is where the problem lies I suspect?
7. Even though I bubble the Roots Organics for days it must be sitting in the soil and going acidic again. The soils out of the bag is just over 6 alone. My tap water is like 6.3 and 40-60ppm.
8. I top dressed with espoma lime (2T per 5gal pot and watered in)... 2 days later I top dressed with 2T and flushed each plant with 2-3gals of water. After flushing each I hit each pot with a 1/2 gal of 'recharge' microbe and some 'fish shit' to restore the soil life.
9. Things seem to be greening up again? My only conclusion is that Root Organics makes your solution acidic as hell (I've read this in multiple places), Maybe its just organic fertilizers in general? (Again, I'm new).
10. Instead of spending that extra money for "Roots" I probaly will switch to Neptunes or other like organic fertilizer made from similar ingredients?


Somebody tell me I'm doing something silly and it's and easy fix? Well I guess maybe adding a scoop or so of dolomite to my buckets beforehand will help buffer out the acidic nutrients. Why does the company not give you any guidance on this at all? I'm sure there are plenty of people like me out there burning the shit out of their plants and swearing off their brand for good. Thing that sucks is I already have a few hundred tied up in there nutrient line.

Any people with similar issues?

 

[Plutarch]

I had planned on using the Roots Organic line for my next attempt. Assuming I make one. Replacing Fox Farms in a similar way to edge towards a more organic grow. Introducing PH issues would be the last thing I need however, and I will be interested to see what kind of feedback you get here. Thanks for the post.

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Yes all the organic brands are acidic. They have to be to stay good. I used the Earth Juice line my first grow, and still use it occasionally. I don't always bubble it anymore since I got too lazy, but it's much better for everything if you bubble it first. I let my soil buffer the ph for me. I have added non-bubbled solutions that had a ph of 4 and tested the runoff and it always comes out around 6.5. It's 6.5 also if I use plain 7.0ph water. I do add gypsum occasionally though. One thing I do anytime I bubble nutes though is to add a big handful of EWC to the tub. I also removed the screen in my pump so nothing is filtered out. I think the EWC really help a lot.

 

[Texagonian]

I have the same issue with Roots Organics and have the whole line as well just sitting there in full gallon jugs. They changed recipes at some point as well. I ran the old recipe with zero issues and re-upped but got the new and improved recipe. Things changed dramatically. Ph issues, purple stems and generally unhealthy plants. Major bummer and when I got ahold of their rep for my area it went nowhere. I switched to nectar for the gods for my organic growing and haven’t looked back. They offer a sample kit of their basic line plus some extra freebies for the cost of shipping if your interested. I’m not affiliated in any way but thought I’d share. Good luck!

 

[Richard Drysift]

Reached exactly the same conclusion myself using Aurora products. Started out fine but over time the ph kept dropping. I didn't have a clue what the problem was at the time but I realize now that maybe it was due to soluble organic material building up in the mix which probly made the soil too acidic. Ran outta Buddha bloom and just stopped using it.
This was around the time my worm factory 360 was in full production for awhile and I started to pull off some very dank worm castings & added it to my mix. I found if you just recycle the mix by adding a few amendments along with ewc and a source of fertilizer you don't have to feed the plants anymore; you just water them. Compost is the key to it all. The ph is kept in check through microbial activity and the plants stay green as the myco fungi absorbs everything that is needed as it is. Add to the soil everything that will be needed all at once and let it set for a month. Then just water your plants; couldn't be any easier.
Tips that helped me:
Add crushed oyster shell to help buffer ph over long term. D-lime is good but consider adding some garden gypsum as well; fungi loves it. Kelp meal is a good npk input and contains probiotics not found in compost. Fish bone meal and/or blood meal are good slow release dry npk inputs. Composted chicken manure is a very good AP fertilizer and cheap; a little goes a long way. Neptunes harvest is good to have on hand for plants like say mothers that have been in the same pots for awhile/too long. If they ever start getting pale just give them liquid fish. Brew up the occasional aact and/or top dress w/ewc on the regular to maintain high level of microbial activity. The soil gets better every time you recycle it...

 

[VermontOG]

Yes this is the type of growing I'd like to do @Richard Drysift I have a nice compost heap and lots of used soil in softpots from Summer (25g)
I really want to start a worm farm next summer (It's snowing here now) But I worry about bringing this type of soil inside because of pests? How do you combat bringing in all kinds of unwanted visitors? This is why I went with the bagged FFOF and Roots Organics Line. I wanted to grow "Organic" but was worried about bringing my 'farm mix' inside?
That being said, the plants are on the mend I think. The addition of lime a few days ago seems to have cooled the soil down a bit. I did a rapid PH test with the powder and water & also a slurry test. Both came back with PH back over 6, maybe 6.5 ( I'm reading the rainbow to test for PH)
I flushed each pot to like 2-3gal runoff each a few days ago and added back in microbes (recharge). Waiting for them to dry out a bit and then will hit them with plain water again to runoff of a gal or so each. I think listening to the manufacturers instructions bit me in the ass and I was feeding to heavy (classic rookie move)? My house is spring fed and my water clocked in at 6.2-6.5ph with PPM around 12 last night. I will just give them water from now on until they bounce back.

 

[Growitpondifarm]

I had planned on using the Roots Organic line for my next attempt. Assuming I make one. Replacing Fox Farms in a similar way to edge towards a more organic grow. Introducing PH issues would be the last thing I need however, and I will be interested to see what kind of feedback you get here. Thanks for the post.

Richard drysift beat me to it. Ditch the bottled nutrients they’re a pain in the ass. I would have no worries about using the compost you have, I use all sorts of local farm compost in my mixes and honestly since I ditched synthetic nutrients I have had little to no big problems. I believe the rich microbial life in a good soil/compost will keep pests at bay.
Compost is king in making good potting soil, if I were you I would add a nice 1-2” layer of compost to top of your pots and do nothing but your well water ( which from your description sounds awesome) Here on out. The compost will keep things rolling and help balance out PH assuming it is decently aged.

 

[Richard Drysift]

Yes this is the type of growing I'd like to do @Richard Drysift I have a nice compost heap and lots of used soil in softpots from Summer (25g)
I really want to start a worm farm next summer (It's snowing here now) But I worry about bringing this type of soil inside because of pests? How do you combat bringing in all kinds of unwanted visitors? This is why I went with the bagged FFOF and Roots Organics Line. I wanted to grow "Organic" but was worried about bringing my 'farm mix' inside?
That being said, the plants are on the mend I think. The addition of lime a few days ago seems to have cooled the soil down a bit. I did a rapid PH test with the powder and water & also a slurry test. Both came back with PH back over 6, maybe 6.5 ( I'm reading the rainbow to test for PH)
I flushed each pot to like 2-3gal runoff each a few days ago and added back in microbes (recharge). Waiting for them to dry out a bit and then will hit them with plain water again to runoff of a gal or so each. I think listening to the manufacturers instructions bit me in the ass and I was feeding to heavy (classic rookie move)? My house is spring fed and my water clocked in at 6.2-6.5ph with PPM around 12 last night. I will just give them water from now on until they bounce back.

I just have a small worm factory 360 set up in my basement. I don't really have problems with pests right now due to preventive measures but I have had gnats and thrips before. Gnats are easily preventable with a sprinkle of diatomaceous earth on the top of the mulch. For thrips I keep Monterey Garden spray on hand in case I see any blotches on the leaves. Neither of these originate from vermicompost; they are the same bugs I was fighting before growing in living soil. Easier to prevent than to eradicate. If I see gnats flying around I'll just hang up some yellow sticky traps and make a vinegar trap to attract/kill them.
Your water source is like the best thing you could hope for. Lotsa peeps are forced to use nutrients because they only have easy access to city tap water. Don't worry about ph or flushing; these are no longer of concern to you.
I would have no issues with adding backyard compost to my mix. Especially if it was out in the cold weather which I hope would kill off most creepy crawlers. Know some grower friends that have been doing this very thing. We added red wigglers to our outdoor compost pile in the summer but have no idea if they will survive through the winter. Think they might be ok if they burrow deep under a cover of warm decomposing leaves.

 

[mansala]

Reached exactly the same conclusion myself using Aurora products. Started out fine but over time the ph kept dropping. I didn't have a clue what the problem was at the time but I realize now that maybe it was due to soluble organic material building up in the mix which probly made the soil too acidic. Ran outta Buddha bloom and just stopped using it.
This was around the time my worm factory 360 was in full production for awhile and I started to pull off some very dank worm castings & added it to my mix. I found if you just recycle the mix by adding a few amendments along with ewc and a source of fertilizer you don't have to feed the plants anymore; you just water them. Compost is the key to it all. The ph is kept in check through microbial activity and the plants stay green as the myco fungi absorbs everything that is needed as it is. Add to the soil everything that will be needed all at once and let it set for a month. Then just water your plants; couldn't be any easier.
Tips that helped me:
Add crushed oyster shell to help buffer ph over long term. D-lime is good but consider adding some garden gypsum as well; fungi loves it. Kelp meal is a good npk input and contains probiotics not found in compost. Fish bone meal and/or blood meal are good slow release dry npk inputs. Composted chicken manure is a very good AP fertilizer and cheap; a little goes a long way. Neptunes harvest is good to have on hand for plants like say mothers that have been in the same pots for awhile/too long. If they ever start getting pale just give them liquid fish. Brew up the occasional aact and/or top dress w/ewc on the regular to maintain high level of microbial activity. The soil gets better every time you recycle it...

I just recently purchased a few bags of Roots Organic Original Potting Soil. I was planning on transplanting my seedlings from my solo cups in Roots Organic Micro-Greens to a 2 gallon pot with the original potting soil. Do you recommend I add anything into the soil and let it cook for a week or two prior to? Any organic matter to mix in with the soil that will prevent me from having to top dress until flower? I was told the roots organic soil has a good amount of nutrients to last but would like some feedback from people who have used it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Richard Drysift]

TBH I never used roots organic soil; in this post here I was talking about Auroras 3 part nutes (bhudda bloom or something) which I don't recommend. I have heard very good things about roots but any decent organic garden soil can work for you.
For a cannabis specific mix to sustain plants for a good length of time you need to add compost. It is nearly impossible to burn plants with worm castings if you balance it with good aeration. A high level of microbial activity is more important than npk value.
I would add in some worm castings to that roots organic mix and use it as is. If adding compost makes it too mucky add some perlite. No need to add much to an already balanced and nutritious mix. Save up and/or aquire whatever soil amendments you want to add in for after your first run. Add more compost at any time to recharge the soil as needed; transplant up or simply top dress. Granular mycorrhizae should be in your arsenal if it isn't already.
To ensure your plants stay green through to harvest consider adding a slow release fertilizer like manure or an organic spike. I use 2 Jobes ap spikes in each bloom container; they feed for 8 weeks. Also recommend throwing a handful of Charlie's compost brand chicken manure; that's some real good shit yo. If your plants ever start to look pale you can give them a liquid fish to provide soluble NPK. I use neptunes harvest w/ seaweed myself; it's only needed for plants that were in their pots for too long. In my exp it takes a few recycles before your mix reaches a supernatural level of microbial activity. Then all you'll need to give is water.

 

[OSBuds]

Thanks for posting another detailed reply!
It helps to see the whole picture.

 

[Budbreath]

I've been using Roots Organics nutrients since last winter. I began by using some of them eventually, I have the whole line up. I'm starting to second guess my decision.
1. Last season indoors I PH adjusted even though the company said not to use PH + or - becasue it will kill microbes, etc. I manged to get a decent harvest. (I'm a newbie, that was like my 2nd or 3rd crop)
2. Switched to Outdoor in 25gal smart pots this summer with my own 'mix' potting soil, compost, topsoil..... had a nice summer but not super robust as in year's past. I kinda assumed it was the lack of daylight I get. I started not adjusting the PH because I wanted to learn about going all organic. The PH of the nutrients when mixed according to their schedule came out to be like 4.5-5 at best :/ I would bubble for 2-3 days and could get it up over 6pm. Everything seemed ok, had to harvest early because the cold damp VT fall came and had to harvest early because of bud rot.
3. This fall moved back indoor and was super excited to see this line work magic. took my clones from end of summer in 4" pots and veg. inside for like 3-4weeks. All good, barely fed them. (Using 100% FFOF - I know I'm a newb) Moved them into 1/2 gal pots and veg for another 2-3weeks. Started feeding according to Roots schedule and bubbling the mix to get the ph above 6. Sometimes you struggle when the schedule starts adding more nutes to get the PH out of the 5's with aeration alone.
4. After 4 weeks saw yellowing on new growth and thought either a deficiency or getting pot bound. I wanted to get ready to flower anyway so I moved to 5gal pots (Final home) I watered only and added microbes. for like 1 week or so. The plants rebounded awesome. and looked ready to flower.
5. 2.5 weeks after transplant into 5 gal. I switched the light. started noticing the yellowing again. Just like the 1/2 gal. pots. This time I knew it shouldnt be pot bound and pretty damn certain their wasn't def because i'd been feeding regular. So I checked PH.
6. The runoff was coming out at like 5! The last feeding went in at almost 7 and came out at 5. This is where the problem lies I suspect?
7. Even though I bubble the Roots Organics for days it must be sitting in the soil and going acidic again. The soils out of the bag is just over 6 alone. My tap water is like 6.3 and 40-60ppm.
8. I top dressed with espoma lime (2T per 5gal pot and watered in)... 2 days later I top dressed with 2T and flushed each plant with 2-3gals of water. After flushing each I hit each pot with a 1/2 gal of 'recharge' microbe and some 'fish shit' to restore the soil life.
9. Things seem to be greening up again? My only conclusion is that Root Organics makes your solution acidic as hell (I've read this in multiple places), Maybe its just organic fertilizers in general? (Again, I'm new).
10. Instead of spending that extra money for "Roots" I probaly will switch to Neptunes or other like organic fertilizer made from similar ingredients?


Somebody tell me I'm doing something silly and it's and easy fix? Well I guess maybe adding a scoop or so of dolomite to my buckets beforehand will help buffer out the acidic nutrients. Why does the company not give you any guidance on this at all? I'm sure there are plenty of people like me out there burning the shit out of their plants and swearing off their brand for good. Thing that sucks is I already have a few hundred tied up in there nutrient line.

Any people with similar issues?

Duck ya, why do we have to add a cup of lime to every bag of all different soils to keep ph on? What soil has enough in it?

 

[ilovereggae]

Fwiw, I was having this problem with Roots Organics ph. Once I started using Recharge tho all of that went away. I think that its boosting the soil microbes so much that they take care of fixing all the ph for me. I check in on soil ph every now and again but I am dead on at 6.7-6.8 using my Bluelab PH pen every time now, so I dont even bother ph'ing my tap water anymore.

 

[Budbreath]

Cool, I started brewing microbe tea. Hope it helps with ph also.