253 Economists in Support of S. 1129 a Medicare for All Health Care System

hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
That's just not enough but I will definitely give the idea a very honest and diligent examination. Maybe it's worthy of a thread of its own. Duly noted, you're arguing that health care costs would actually increase as a result of the passage of single payer healthcare.

Let's see if anyone else can refute that.
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To be clear, I am saying healthcare costs will increase regardless, it is just a question of how much/fast the increases are. Our population will continually increase meaning we will have to use more resources no matter what.

If most the care is done on the local/general practitioners and not expensive ER visits, that increase will be greatly reduced.
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
To be clear, I am saying healthcare costs will increase regardless, it is just a question of how much/fast the increases are.
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I see what you mean. I definitely think that costs have gotten too high too fast and it's due to the insurance industry being left to regulate itself while leaving people vulnerable.

It's disgusting. I'm not suggesting that you support the current model, I'm just reexamining my own acceptance of the notions of how healthcare costs can be tamed.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I don't know how I got sucked into this conversation lol, I am not a Bernie fan, and think expanding the ACA to fully cover every American is the way to go. I value insurance companies when they have oversight.

But, what I don't understand the disconnect between what I am saying and what you are is that everything today is being paid for by Americans. Nobody is denied access to healthcare if they go to a emergency room. But the costs there are sky high, because it is a very inefficient way to get healthcare. When someone falls on the street, they get an Ambulance ride ($$$), and shipped to the ER($$$$$), when if they were covered prior, they could have gone to a general physician earlier and gotten far less expensive treatment.

When those people don't pay their hospital bill, all that costs get passed onto the rest of the paying patients and insurance companies. So it is hard to see how prices would change that much, it would just be shifting who and where it is being paid from.

The extra $11,000 is being paid now by who? And I guess at the end of the day it would depend on the taxation scheme to pay for M4A, would it be strictly a business paid system or would it be a combo employer/employee? I don't know and don't really think it is going to happen anytime soon to worry enough about learning how they are imagining this system working.
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OK, so how much is Bernie's bill going to cost and how will it be paid for? You and I can go around and around about how many fairies fit on the head of a pin but the fact remains that Bernie's bill is only half-done. I can't vote for a person who submits a half-done bill that requires about 150 million people to give up the healthcare they have for something that is undefined. That's clearly a stupid position to take if you want their votes and I think is Trump's ticket to four more years.

It is debatable whether or not everybody's needs are being met at the emergency room but I agree that ER should be the last resort, not the only one for people who can't afford health care coverage. This society is fully capable of funding healthcare for everybody. What I expect from Bernie or any other candidate who wants to completely change how one-quarter of this economy is run and funded is a complete plan, not a symbolic bill that "we will figure out later after you get me elected". Also, there is that 150 million people who like their healthcare plans. I don't agree that they should be forced to give it up. Medicare should be good enough so that it's the smart thing to do.
 
H

HashBucket

Well-Known Member
Heard an economics professor at a major university tell students intently hanging on his every word that "if you line up 100 economists and ask them for direction, they will point in 200 different directions, and be able to prove every one of them."
To that I would add, that "the only reason they are limited to 200 different directions, is because they are limited to two arms each."

My favorite exam type in college was essay.
I learned how to adopt and support and prove any position using statistics, demographics, etc.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Heard an economics professor at a major university tell students intently hanging on his every word that "if you line up 100 economists and ask them for direction, they will point in 200 different directions, and be able to prove every one of them."
To that I would add, that "the only reason they are limited to 200 different directions, is because they are limited to two arms each."

My favorite exam type in college was essay.
I learned how to adopt and support and prove any position using statistics, demographics, etc.
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cool made up story, grandpa racist

Maybe don’t start drinking so early
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
HashBucket said:
Heard an economics professor at a major university tell students intently hanging on his every word that "if you line up 100 economists and ask them for direction, they will point in 200 different directions, and be able to prove every one of them."
To that I would add, that "the only reason they are limited to 200 different directions, is because they are limited to two arms each."

My favorite exam type in college was essay.
I learned how to adopt and support and prove any position using statistics, demographics, etc.
Click to expand...
That is why statistics/econometrics/data analysis has changed everything. Any economics prior to it is great theory to help build up a model, but the data now changed everything to increase economists ability check their work and show if their theory holds any water.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Options to Finance Medicare For All

7.5 percent income-based premium paid by employers
Revenue raised: $3.9 trillion over ten years.

Businesses would save over $9,000 in health care costs for the average employee under this option

4 percent income-based premium paid by households
Revenue raised: $3.5 trillion over ten years.

The typical middle class family would save over $4,400 under this plan.

Savings from Health Tax Expenditures
Revenue raised: $4.2 trillion over ten years.

Make the Personal Income Tax More Progressive
Revenue raised: $1.8 trillion over ten years.

-Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be:

- 40 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000.
- 45 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million.
- 50 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2014, only 136,000
households, the top 0.1 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10
million.)
- 52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2014, only 16,700 households, just 0.02
percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.)

-Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.

- Limit tax deductions for the wealthy.

Make the Estate Tax More Progressive
Revenue raised: $249 billion over ten years.

Establish a Wealth Tax on the Top 0.1 percent
Revenue raised: $1.3 trillion over ten years.

Close the Gingrich-Edwards Loophole and Create Parity for Wealthy Business Owners
Revenue raised: $247 billion over ten years.

Impose a one-time tax on currently held offshore profits
Revenue raised: $767 billion over ten years.

Impose a Fee on Large Financial Institutions
Revenue raised: $117 billion over ten years.

Repeal Corporate Accounting Gimmicks
Revenue raised: $112 billion ten years.


Medicare For All


Political Economic Research Institute Economic Analysis of Medicare for All

"This study by PERI researchers Robert Pollin, James Heintz, Peter Arno, Jeannette Wicks-Lim and Michael Ash presents a comprehensive analysis of the prospects for a Medicare for All health care system in the United States. The most fundamental goals of Medicare for All are to significantly improve health care outcomes for everyone living in the United States while also establishing effective cost controls throughout the health care system. These two purposes are both achievable. As of 2017, the U.S. was spending about $3.24 trillion on personal health care—about 17 percent of total U.S. GDP. Meanwhile, 9 percent of U.S. residents have no insurance and 26 percent are underinsured—they are unable to access needed care because of prohibitively high costs. Other high-income countries spend an average of about 40 percent less per person and produce better health outcomes. Medicare for All could reduce total health care spending in the U.S. by nearly 10 percent, to $2.93 trillion, while creating stable access to good care for all U.S. residents."
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
We know that he has fantastic ideas to pay for half of his healthcare and a sixth of his overall economic agenda, Curtis.

They are indeed fantastic ideas of ways to tax billionaires.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Options to Finance Medicare For All

7.5 percent income-based premium paid by employers
Revenue raised: $3.9 trillion over ten years.

Businesses would save over $9,000 in health care costs for the average employee under this option

4 percent income-based premium paid by households
Revenue raised: $3.5 trillion over ten years.

The typical middle class family would save over $4,400 under this plan.

Savings from Health Tax Expenditures
Revenue raised: $4.2 trillion over ten years.

Make the Personal Income Tax More Progressive
Revenue raised: $1.8 trillion over ten years.

-Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be:

- 40 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000.
- 45 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million.
- 50 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2014, only 136,000
households, the top 0.1 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10
million.)
- 52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2014, only 16,700 households, just 0.02
percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.)

-Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.

- Limit tax deductions for the wealthy.

Make the Estate Tax More Progressive
Revenue raised: $249 billion over ten years.

Establish a Wealth Tax on the Top 0.1 percent
Revenue raised: $1.3 trillion over ten years.

Close the Gingrich-Edwards Loophole and Create Parity for Wealthy Business Owners
Revenue raised: $247 billion over ten years.

Impose a one-time tax on currently held offshore profits
Revenue raised: $767 billion over ten years.

Impose a Fee on Large Financial Institutions
Revenue raised: $117 billion over ten years.

Repeal Corporate Accounting Gimmicks
Revenue raised: $112 billion ten years.


Medicare For All


Political Economic Research Institute Economic Analysis of Medicare for All

"This study by PERI researchers Robert Pollin, James Heintz, Peter Arno, Jeannette Wicks-Lim and Michael Ash presents a comprehensive analysis of the prospects for a Medicare for All health care system in the United States. The most fundamental goals of Medicare for All are to significantly improve health care outcomes for everyone living in the United States while also establishing effective cost controls throughout the health care system. These two purposes are both achievable. As of 2017, the U.S. was spending about $3.24 trillion on personal health care—about 17 percent of total U.S. GDP. Meanwhile, 9 percent of U.S. residents have no insurance and 26 percent are underinsured—they are unable to access needed care because of prohibitively high costs. Other high-income countries spend an average of about 40 percent less per person and produce better health outcomes. Medicare for All could reduce total health care spending in the U.S. by nearly 10 percent, to $2.93 trillion, while creating stable access to good care for all U.S. residents."
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I already pay 15.3% fica taxes on every dollar I make

You want to make that 26.8% now?

Good luck selling that
 
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