Surprised to see Hlg slumming it.

[HolyAngel]

People should be using leds strips rather than boards anyway. Boards have very inferior spread compared to strips.

It's the same blunder as putting reflectors on COBs. Nonsense like those reflectors and boards comes about because people simply do not understand how to properly measure efficacy.

Unfortunately people only look at sphere tests and dream that all that light reaches their plants. Yet a poorly distibuted light will waste that light on the walls like crazy.

Ledgardner did a matrix test of a QB in a 60x60 (2'x2') tent and almost half of the light was gone. Absorbed by the walls. Although he didn't realize it. It's just staggering how bad these lights perform in small spaces. Yet they are actually adviced by people for small spaces.

What? Did he have some vanta black walls in that tent or something? Mylar is 98% reflective. You could say 2% is being absorbed by the walls, sure, but 98% is being reflected back inside, how would you lose half the light from 98% reflective walls.. or are you trying to state a different point than I'm understanding from what you wrote?

 

[hybridway2]

You are absolutely wrong, proper testing is the only way to check the difference between 2 fixtures and this can not be done with a PAR meter.

And it is. But why are you so convinced of this?? You care more about Chip efficiency then system efficiency in the garden??
Probably if you don't grow.
What do you grow with? Hows your plants looking these days?

 

[FORTUNECOOKIES]

And it is. But why are you so convinced of this?? You care more about Chip efficiency then system efficiency in the garden??
Probably if you don't grow.
What do you grow with? Hows your plants looking these days?

Do you understand how the measurement of PAR works? I would like you to do some research on the subject of the difference between a measurement of radiance in mW and PAR if you don't know. You will then have your answer as to why a PAR meter isn't suitable for comparing different fixtures and different spectrums. This wont cover beam angles and fixture sizes but it is one of the reasons why using a PAR meter is not an accurate way to compare different fixtures.
It is only when you educate yourself you will understand these things.
I don't want to give you the answer as I feel you need to really understand the subject and you will understand it better if you do the research yourself.

 

[OneHitDone]

That is cheap

I am saying that you can not accurately compare different fixtures with different spectrums using a PAR meter

Bro, are you Teknik?

 

[cobshopgrow]

What? Did he have some vanta black walls in that tent or something? Mylar is 98% reflective. You could say 2% is being absorbed by the walls, sure, but 98% is being reflected back inside, how would you lose half the light from 98% reflective walls.. or are you trying to state a different point than I'm understanding from what you wrote?

the problem is that the 98% are in a ideal world, 100% clean, no wrinkles, right angle etc.
other problem is that the light may need to be reflected several times to reach the plant, 98% of 98% of 98%....

 

[HolyAngel]

the problem is that the 98% are in a ideal world, 100% clean, no wrinkles, right angle etc.
other problem is that the light may need to be reflected several times to reach the plant, 98% of 98% of 98%....

sure, but you should still be getting more light in a tent than you would with the same light out in the open... Although, I suppose: if you had only a small tent where the canopy would fill the space and completely block all light under it, if that same plant(s) were in a larger area or tent with the same light then you could potentially get more light available to it?

 

[Stephenj37826]

Neither of your examples suggest something scientifically unique, which misleads the ignorant buyer, suggesting you have a secret sauce

No my examples are companies spending lots of money on marketing. A brand has value. It doesn't create itself. It costs lots of time and money. Why not let all cola companies call thier cola Coke? Why not let all shoe companies call thier shoes Nike? I never once said quantum board was scientific. It is a brand that we spent a lot of time and money in creating. I am certainly not ok with someone else benefiting from my work and advertising efforts.

It sure seems you have nothing positive to say about our company...... Interesting you create this thread and then continue to try and discredit what HLG has done..... So what is your agenda?

 

[OneHitDone]

No my examples are companies spending lots of money on marketing. A brand has value. It doesn't create itself. It costs lots of time and money. Why not let all cola companies call thier cola Coke? Why not let all shoe companies call thier shoes Nike? I never once said quantum board was scientific. It is a brand that we spent a lot of time and money in creating. I am certainly not ok with someone else benefiting from my work and advertising efforts.

It sure seems you have nothing positive to say about our company...... Interesting you create this thread and then continue to try and discredit what HLG has done..... So what is your agenda?

Like but brother @PhatNuggz wasn't the OP homie

 

[Chip Green]

Yeah, but, why use the name quantum

It's a brand name. That's the name they chose. Paid to have it trademarked. Anybody who uses the term Quantum Board, for an LED product, is in violation of intellectual property statutes, and should prepare for a lengthy and costly litigation. The right to use the term Quantum Board legally belongs to HLG. It's really that simple.
It's the adult version of calling dibbs. HLG called dibbs on Quantum Board.

 

[cobshopgrow]

sure, but you should still be getting more light in a tent than you would with the same light out in the open... Although, I suppose: if you had only a small tent where the canopy would fill the space and completely block all light under it, if that same plant(s) were in a larger area or tent with the same light then you could potentially get more light available to it?

sure, you get more light to your plant with reflective walls, but nowhere 98%.
i understood his point that you need to hang the board so high, due to otherwise poorly distribution, that you need to rely on the reflective walls instead of hiting your plants directly by the rays.

if i got you right, under same conditions, same light hanging heigt etc.
no you you wont get more light "avaiable to your plant" in a larger tent, you can just distribute some under your canopy, therefore have less "on" your canopy.
the amount of overall "avaiable" light will be smaller in the bigger tent ,as you have more losses due to reflection losses.

 

[hybridway2]

Do you understand how the measurement of PAR works? I would like you to do some research on the subject of the difference between a measurement of radiance in mW and PAR if you don't know. You will then have your answer as to why a PAR meter isn't suitable for comparing different fixtures and different spectrums. This wont cover beam angles and fixture sizes but it is one of the reasons why using a PAR meter is not an accurate way to compare different fixtures.
It is only when you educate yourself you will understand these things.
I don't want to give you the answer as I feel you need to really understand the subject and you will understand it better if you do the research yourself.

And why can't you
Better question is even after you just explained it "This wont cover beam angles and fixture sizes but it is one of the reasons why using a PAR meter is not an accurate way to compare different fixtures" Why you still don't get it?.
You Compare a Horticultural IP-66 , UL-880 certed fixture with even light dispersion to a bare board DIY Rig with bare diodes, no heat sinks & a driver mounted to a sheet of aluminum using white 301b's & a few 660's
And if the sheet of aluminum gets a higher umol/j does that make it a more efficient fixture ??? Lmao! I can't wait to here this.

If you said yes then you obviously do not grow or understand Gardening Efficiency.
You my Friend have allot to learn.
Again, i do believe Amxre should have so much better info for you guys on a real web-site. Should Provide 3rd party testing for the sceptics, Media so you all can see for yourselves like back when there was dozens of Amxre threads & be interactive here. But unfortunately we do not all have that luxury each day.
So, I'm with you there but by No means would that be a determining factor to my purchase.
Spectrum development alone puts all the rest in the dust. Forget about originality & execution of near perfection.
If you wanna know the real scoop on how Sphere Testing became such a controversial topic then visit my thread n ill school you.
Enough of you guys baiting me in to appear to be the guy mucking up this HLG thread. Stephen sees right through your BS & doubt he appreciates you guys dragging Me into an Amxre debate on his thread. Especially when he knows you know i support them & will tell the truth till I'm blue in the face .
Think he hates me, doubt it. If anything he prob appreciates my dedication & loyalty. Not like there's much of that around these days.

 

[Stephenj37826]

Yo, dont take this the wrong way because i appreciate you & especially what you have done here & with the QB's.
You did not pattent the name, idea & several prototypes of the future ideas? How did this happen?
You do remember the Johnson days too right? Originality was running short for you too if i remember correctly. The world works in mysteries ways.
But you by no means deserved this. Its worse the Advanced Platinum copying Advanced led. Way worse.
Its to easy to copy bud, allot less expensive for them to make then you, especially with start up. Simple DIY design keeps factories full of Monkeys assembling SpiderFarmers n knock-offs at a 1/16th of your cost. With no reprucutions to their lies being over-seas is home for them.
Lil ChinaMen hate Texas boys like you especially n prob shot for you. Lol!

We did trademark the name and the design is patented as well. We even have utility patents pending. It's just a matter of time. It takes 3 yrs for the patent to become final.... It's close. I have asked nicely because I honestly don't wanna be that guy that sues the hell out of someone.

 

[OneHitDone]

We did trademark the name and the design is patented as well. We even have utility patents pending. It's just a matter of time. It takes 3 yrs for the patent to become final.... It's close. I have asked nicely because I honestly don't wanna be that guy that sues the hell out of someone.

Better to just slide 1 step ahead of them and loose the 550 platform for something with better distribution. Leaving them in a cloud of dust selling "yesterdays tech"

 

[Stephenj37826]

Better to just slide 1 step ahead of them and loose the 550 platform for something with better distribution. Leaving them in a cloud of dust selling "yesterdays tech"

It's coming

 

[end_of_the_tunnel]

That is cheap

I am saying that you can not accurately compare different fixtures with different spectrums using a PAR meter

I 100% agree.
I also 100% believe that hobbyists should be able to measure, record and compare.
Do you understand that whilst we can question the true range of photosynthetically active radiation, 400 - 700nm is a widely acceptable metric to use?
And that a PAR sensor from a reputable manufacturer is the most entry level affordable way for anyone to accurately record PAR measurements?
Do you understand that this is an open forum primarily populated by hobbyists eager to observe, learn and compare?

I would question the motives of anyone who pedantically pooh-poohs and/or discourages hobbyists from posting results where they have used a calibrated PAR sensor to measure, record, and compare.

I would emphatically support anyone calling for manufacturers, forum advertisers, unofficial advertisers and shills - to post up independantly prepared spec sheets from lighting laboratories. There are a lot on here that dont.

And also support a call for lighting manufacturers to breakdown and expand the data they already get from independant light labs into more consumer friendly tables.
Horticultural lighting datasheets should include graphs of board temperature over time vs power/volts, not pulsed "stabilised" temps.
Tables of ratios of energy for the PAR range, i.e BLUE, GREEN, RED. And where neccessary, ratios for anything below 400nm.
Also useful would be RED/FAR RED ratio. Professional horticulturalists and scientists around the world have been using Red/Far Red sensors from places like Skye Instruments for decades.
In my uneducated opinion, spectrographs present as pretty images. They do not provide readily accessable data for end users.

 

[lukio]

LOL! @hybridway2 you get one of those bar 8' tested, not the new UV, pal. after-all, youve been telling us that theyre the best thing out and sending newbs to buy em for ages. what a fucking joke.

its about time people stop listening to you.

 

[PhatNuggz]

What most do not realize is Spider Farmer is Mars Hydro...... They send this stuff straight to a Amazon warehouse from China. They can sell this stuff super cheap because thier predatory government subsidizes them 20%. All while I pay taxes on my inventory every year let alone corporate tax and then my personal income tax. American companies cost of doing business is a lot higher than China. Then you wonder why you can't find a living wage job.......

Also there are millions of rejected LEDs sold on the Chinese black market every day. So saying it's the same thing isn't true.


We are innovating. The Rspec is about 1 year old. We have a DE replacement coming this month that is 2.8 umol/j+ and a rack light in 2-3 months that will crack 3.0 umol/j. No our rack light isn't a bar light either. Only hold up on rack light is drivers.

We could have kept building our boards in China like the very early days but instead we took the leap of faith, borrowed nearly a million dollars, bought the equipment to build it right here in the US and created good paying jobs. Before we did that we signed a multimillion dollar P.O. with a US manufacturer in Michigan not knowing if we would go bankrupt or what. We hadn't even sold 2k boards at that point. You wanna talk about risk. I poured every last dollar to my name into this company to the point I was behind on my house payment. So no I do not feel one bit guilty about throwing shade at some Chinese company that rips our product off, uses our product name to drum up business. Spider Farmer lies about thier efficiency, they lied and said ETL certified when it was not. They used quantum board over and over when we asked them nicely to stop several times. So yeah I don't care much for MARS HYDRO/SPIDER FARMER

We innovative they imitate. Sure we have to stop companies from using our trademark. Hell China was printing our name on boards and selling them. People would call for warranty service and it wasn't even our stuff. It hurts us if someone buys a "Quantum Board" and it has inferior LEDs on it or burns out early.

Not one single person here would feel any different if they came out with a product to only get copied by the Chinese.

Sorry, but one last thing, because it has bugged me since I replied: Where is your proof that "What most do not realize is Spider Farmer is Mars Hydro...... They send this stuff straight to a Amazon warehouse from China." IMHO opinion SF is vastly superior in design and execution than any Mars crap I've seen. Meaning: if they have that superior talent, why are they making crap under the Mars name? AND, why would you throw that out here without providing proof? Not doing so, calls your credibility into serious question

As I said before, this aside, I do think you are onto something with you flower enhancing bar. BUT, if you cannot prove SF=Mars, then you're just another BS artist in an ocean of them, and cannot be trusted

Rant Over

 

[HolyAngel]

Sorry, but one last thing, because it has bugged me since I replied: Where is your proof that "What most do not realize is Spider Farmer is Mars Hydro...... They send this stuff straight to a Amazon warehouse from China." IMHO opinion SF is vastly superior in design and execution than any Mars crap I've seen. Meaning: if they have that superior talent, why are they making crap under the Mars name? AND, why would you throw that out here without providing proof? Not doing so, calls your credibility into serious question

As I said before, this aside, I do think you are onto something with you flower enhancing bar. BUT, if you cannot prove SF=Mars, then you're just another BS artist in an ocean of them, and cannot be trusted

Rant Over

yeah closest I can find on anything is just talk from other people.
Things like: SF & MH may be made in the same factory.
and: Spider farmer are a spin off of Viparspectra/Mehzhi.

That being said, If you check both SF and Mars Hydro websites for their locations, they seem to both have the exact same warehouses and such.

 

[hybridway2]

It baffles me as to why you are not interested in understanding what PAR is considering how often you speak about using a PAR meter.


Thankyou for the invite to your thread. I look forward to being "schooled" by you, Just please do not get upset if you end up being the one that is being "schooled"

You're invited. I love to learn!

 

[SourDeezz]

Don't mind me, just subscribing to this thread.