Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
2 together in series, voltage is combined.
For those that have done strips DIY need advice on driver selection...
- Thread starter tilopa
- Start date
Sorry op, I'm really new to all the DIY stuff myself so feel like we are in the same boat, but these two quotes really clicked for me as far as series and parallel wiring combined. I took away that wiring in combination like they explained keeps things from running things with either a high voltage OR current. It kind of puts you in the middle ground instead of having either high voltage or current by only applying one wiring method, which in the big picture actually simplifies things kind of. Again, just my two cents and appreciate you posting this thread as I'm learning right along with you.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
my recomendation isnt the absolute way how it have to be done.
i just thought as were still far below 60v (low voltge range) we can easily put 2 strips in series, less wiring less thick cables needed and no other drawback i see.
i personally put even more in series like 4ftroots recommend but many people feel good staying below 60V.
tilopa, i think the hardest part you allready mastered, seems you know the curves for mA, drive current and the voltage your strip will run with.
next i would decide for one or 2 drivers, go by the watts you need (cant say if you really need 600W in a 4x4 on well distrubuted EB3 strips, i simply dont know).
there are quite some options in the Mean Well LRS, XLG, HLG lineup.
for the 2in series example, taking a 36V driver is a good hint.
The HLG drivers have a screw to set the voltage, seems they go almost up to 40V which would make then a good fit if 2 of your strips are in series each.
You can put even more in series if youre feeling good with it, of course not with a 36V or 42V driver.
i just thought as were still far below 60v (low voltge range) we can easily put 2 strips in series, less wiring less thick cables needed and no other drawback i see.
i personally put even more in series like 4ftroots recommend but many people feel good staying below 60V.
tilopa, i think the hardest part you allready mastered, seems you know the curves for mA, drive current and the voltage your strip will run with.
next i would decide for one or 2 drivers, go by the watts you need (cant say if you really need 600W in a 4x4 on well distrubuted EB3 strips, i simply dont know).
there are quite some options in the Mean Well LRS, XLG, HLG lineup.
for the 2in series example, taking a 36V driver is a good hint.
The HLG drivers have a screw to set the voltage, seems they go almost up to 40V which would make then a good fit if 2 of your strips are in series each.
You can put even more in series if youre feeling good with it, of course not with a 36V or 42V driver.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Also, xlg-h is said to go up to 60V which opens for 3 in series for 2 footers.
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
ah, good option
3 isnt dividable with 20, maybe the op is flexible there.
3 isnt dividable with 20, maybe the op is flexible there.
Shoot man I apologize. That was a for instance. That calculation won't apply to your build. I'll try to edit so you can follow better
For your case, if you have 24 strips, you will want to use 2 drivers.
@tilopa @loco41
I want to recommend studying up on series vs parallel wiring then specifically series vs parallel wiring of LEDs. It is much better to understand what is going on when you are going DIY. Plus, if you decide to upgrade you can rework your lights.
Follow these steps
1) understand series vs parallel
2) understand why LEDs should be driven in a constant current mode instead of constant voltage
3) understand that adding LEDs in series causes voltage addition vs parallel which causes current division.
You should then be able to follow my post in this thread : https://www.rollitup.org/t/want-to-build-a-budget-led-cob-for-my-4x4.1015290/#post-15508424
post # 14 goes over how to logically create an LED light.
I want to recommend studying up on series vs parallel wiring then specifically series vs parallel wiring of LEDs. It is much better to understand what is going on when you are going DIY. Plus, if you decide to upgrade you can rework your lights.
Follow these steps
1) understand series vs parallel
2) understand why LEDs should be driven in a constant current mode instead of constant voltage
3) understand that adding LEDs in series causes voltage addition vs parallel which causes current division.
You should then be able to follow my post in this thread : https://www.rollitup.org/t/want-to-build-a-budget-led-cob-for-my-4x4.1015290/#post-15508424
post # 14 goes over how to logically create an LED light.
welight
Well-Known Member
cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
@4ftRoots going in series with the leds is the clean way and also my prefered one.
just going over 60v cause quite some discussion here.
one argument is that the bridgelux strips have a 60V limit in their fineprint, which is to my opinion caused by the fact that they sell bareboards printed with a CE/FCC on them, doesnt mean much in the real world.
They have to state this, its still just a FR4 PCB (glassfibre) and usual solderstop paint, rated for normally up to 1KV.
One other thought, going above the main voltage means having the driver working in step up mode, normally step down is a tiny bit more efficient. to what i know, not 100% sure.
opnions? dont get me wrong.
just going over 60v cause quite some discussion here.
one argument is that the bridgelux strips have a 60V limit in their fineprint, which is to my opinion caused by the fact that they sell bareboards printed with a CE/FCC on them, doesnt mean much in the real world.
They have to state this, its still just a FR4 PCB (glassfibre) and usual solderstop paint, rated for normally up to 1KV.
One other thought, going above the main voltage means having the driver working in step up mode, normally step down is a tiny bit more efficient. to what i know, not 100% sure.
opnions? dont get me wrong.
They are all great points. Just for reference here is a link to the document: https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/ENEC-02768_EB Series.pdf
I agree with you they are labeled that way for CE/FCC. They want the strips listed as a low voltage 48V device for consumer use. If it was high voltage that would be much harder.
I don't know if I agree with step up vs step down. A lot has been down in the electrical field. They are probably the same efficiency. Interesting to note, the HLG-240-1050b has higher efficiency than any of the constant voltage drivers.
Here are the sheets:
HLG-240H: https://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=HLG-240H
HLG-240H-C: https://www.meanwell.com/webapp/product/search.aspx?prod=HLG-240H-C
Interesting paper of voltage classifications: https://www.generac.com/Industrial/getmedia/808407b3-dca4-45ae-adc2-cc22ed9bde74/Generac-Industrial-Power_Whitepaper_Medium-Voltage-On-Site-Generation.aspx
0-49 is low voltage classification covered by 250.20(A). Whatever that means lol
CaliWorthington
Well-Known Member
When Randomblame suggested I use the CC/CV drivers, this is what he said.
So maybe 49 volts and under "can not travel the skin." I don't know.
What he considers "more fail safe" is what you consider more dangerous (to strips if they fail when wired in parallel). I had one strip fail because the hot wire snapped off. I had enough headroom so the other two strips were fine. Had I been running them hotter, that could have fried the other two strips. The likelihood of multiple strips failing at once is pretty low, and if it does happen, the ones that didn't fail may already be compromised. But you do make a good point about using CV drivers instead of CC. I'm using all CC/CV, they work for me.
Ok thank. I didn't mean to be snarky, I'm just getting a bit frustrated because if feels like the more I learn the more indecisive I become.
I just got off the phone with a Meanwell tech support guy. The Bridge Gen 3 are constant current LEDs and as such need a constant current driver. He said people will often run those in series because if the LEDs are not stable, like they are cheaply made, and there is a heat issue, there is a potential for thermal runaway. He said with quality LEDs like Samsung, Brigelux, and Cree, although there can be some slight variation in voltage, thermal runaway should not be an issue and so wiring in parallel is perfectly fine. He also said there is no efficiency gain by using one type of driver over another as long as you are running the driver between 50-100% of rated power.
Anyway, I'm more clear about what to do, and I've let go of the idea I need to make the perfect LED light.
Current plan:
Strips: 24 x 2 ft Bridgelux Gen 3 - this will be a mix of 18 x 3000k 80 CRI and 6 x 4000k 90 CRI.
Driver: HLG-320H-42A - specs: Current=7.65A, voltage range=21v-42v, rated power 321w.
Wiring: 12 sets of 2 series. BTW- is there any difference doing this by taking 12 strips and paralleling them together, doing that 2x and then taking those 2 set of 12 and series them together?
This configuration with that driver would give: 7.65A/12=637mA (this is the current for each series pair), voltage per pair=37.6v. Total power output is 37.6*.637=24w * 12 = 287w
Is this correct?
My only concern is that I'm a bit under powered. Especially considering the 1000w DE HPS I have now. But what I was wondering is, with these LEDs being low power and low temperature could I hang them like 12" from the canopy. The 1000w DE can barely be 3ft from canopy and even that is really too hot.
I just got off the phone with a Meanwell tech support guy. The Bridge Gen 3 are constant current LEDs and as such need a constant current driver. He said people will often run those in series because if the LEDs are not stable, like they are cheaply made, and there is a heat issue, there is a potential for thermal runaway. He said with quality LEDs like Samsung, Brigelux, and Cree, although there can be some slight variation in voltage, thermal runaway should not be an issue and so wiring in parallel is perfectly fine. He also said there is no efficiency gain by using one type of driver over another as long as you are running the driver between 50-100% of rated power.
Anyway, I'm more clear about what to do, and I've let go of the idea I need to make the perfect LED light.
Current plan:
Strips: 24 x 2 ft Bridgelux Gen 3 - this will be a mix of 18 x 3000k 80 CRI and 6 x 4000k 90 CRI.
Driver: HLG-320H-42A - specs: Current=7.65A, voltage range=21v-42v, rated power 321w.
Wiring: 12 sets of 2 series. BTW- is there any difference doing this by taking 12 strips and paralleling them together, doing that 2x and then taking those 2 set of 12 and series them together?
This configuration with that driver would give: 7.65A/12=637mA (this is the current for each series pair), voltage per pair=37.6v. Total power output is 37.6*.637=24w * 12 = 287w
Is this correct?
My only concern is that I'm a bit under powered. Especially considering the 1000w DE HPS I have now. But what I was wondering is, with these LEDs being low power and low temperature could I hang them like 12" from the canopy. The 1000w DE can barely be 3ft from canopy and even that is really too hot.
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CaliWorthington
Well-Known Member
Yes you can put them 12" from the canopy, no problem. I've run DE HPS too. Unless you have higher than average ceilings, they cook your colas.
Humple
Well-Known Member
You're way underpowered. You'll need two such fixtures to replace a DE. You'll have impressive GPW numbers though.
BTW - I don't have an issue wiring high voltage. I did the math on every possible configuration of the HLG-320H-C drivers up to 228 volts and they were just lower power. And if there is no difference in efficiency, just the ability to use higher gauge wire, and maybe a little simpler wiring then that is not enough of a reason to wire it that way for me.
Great to hear your experience with failed strips, what was the before and after current? That could have been what saved your LEDs. Definitely could have hurt the life, but luckily nothing bad happened.
Eh my argument is to be aware of electrical shock and avoid it. A lot of the arguments I hear is that 48 volts is safe or 24 volts is safe. Well, we don't go around touching the leads on car batteries do we? So why would we do it with drivers? Therefore, no reason to worry about voltage level, just don't touch the damn leads lol.
Yeah way to low. shoot for at least 30w per sqft if your going to move the leds with the plants. higher if static at top of tent. You're at 18w per sqft right now.
Nice job on the research!
CaliWorthington
Well-Known Member
I was running 6 strips on an HLG-240H-48B. These are the now obsolete $5 L-09 strips that aren't F or H series. Their max current is 1.38 amps. It's a 5 amp driver, so they were running at 0.83 amps per strip. With one strip missing, they were running at 1 amp. Even if two strips cut out, it would still be only 1.25 amps per strip, so no problem.
That low current is enough for vegging, but I've ordered 320 and 480-watt drivers now for flowering. My next build is probably going to be H-series strips, which the 320 and 480 drivers can run at 1.1 amps as well. H-strips go up to 1.6 amps max, and F-strips go up to 1.8 amps, so unless you're running them crazy hot, there should be plenty of headroom in case of a strip failure.
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cobshopgrow
Well-Known Member
the stated 60v was the highest ive found for beeing considered safe to touch voltage.
there are many norms and many factors and extra safety margins, thickness of your skin, how wet it is etc.
for the FCC/CE i dont really know any other sensefull reason, Samsung dont even give a FCC/CE limit for their strips, its up to the builder of the unit.
its nitpicking, but according to the testreports of the menawell HLG-320.2100b compared to the 1050b the 2100 is slightly better.
95.05% to 94.7 %
https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/HLG-320H-C/HLG-320H-C2100-rpt.pdf
the 2100 should work as stepdown.
tilopa, i think the phone support gave good advise... all will work and differences will be small to none.
we all went through this sleepless night claculating setups, youre not alone.
dont underestimate the wiring, that can be a pain and series wiring is really easier.
i think you did found working combination!
while i would see if i could use more of the 320w.
One way would probably the from rocket soul suggested 36V version.
There are recently also AB versions of many HLG drivers out there, there you can set the current too!
Can you get a HLG 320 42 AB version? if yes, then do that for sure.
ive found my luck in using the above mentioned HLG 320-2100b and using 14 EB3 slim 340mm in series. (by 4 groups in parallel)
The slim have s light diff. diode count compared to the regular ones which made them in my eyes a better fit to the Mean Well CC driver range.
there are many norms and many factors and extra safety margins, thickness of your skin, how wet it is etc.
for the FCC/CE i dont really know any other sensefull reason, Samsung dont even give a FCC/CE limit for their strips, its up to the builder of the unit.
its nitpicking, but according to the testreports of the menawell HLG-320.2100b compared to the 1050b the 2100 is slightly better.
95.05% to 94.7 %
https://www.meanwell-web.com/content/files/pdfs/productPdfs/MW/HLG-320H-C/HLG-320H-C2100-rpt.pdf
the 2100 should work as stepdown.
tilopa, i think the phone support gave good advise... all will work and differences will be small to none.
we all went through this sleepless night claculating setups, youre not alone.
dont underestimate the wiring, that can be a pain and series wiring is really easier.
i think you did found working combination!
while i would see if i could use more of the 320w.
One way would probably the from rocket soul suggested 36V version.
There are recently also AB versions of many HLG drivers out there, there you can set the current too!
Can you get a HLG 320 42 AB version? if yes, then do that for sure.
ive found my luck in using the above mentioned HLG 320-2100b and using 14 EB3 slim 340mm in series. (by 4 groups in parallel)
The slim have s light diff. diode count compared to the regular ones which made them in my eyes a better fit to the Mean Well CC driver range.