Sif1
Well-Known Member
You think only two?
40+ lbs with 12 Plants in 2 Rooms on a Flip
- Thread starter Renfro
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Airwalker16
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I mean if you can get them wholesale, buy as many as you can possibly afford, honestly. You'll need to change them every year or two. If after you install 2 and you find its not effective, add another one...or two! You actually might want to get 12"fans because using a speed controller on a bigger fan can help you dial in the perfect air flow you need and you might be able to even "Y" pipe the end and put 2, 10" filters, on a single 12" fan.
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
I'd imagine if you learn up all about filters and go in to your conversation armed with knowledge, you can probably get MASSIVE discounts in an order of 10 or 20 of their largest sizes. Like 50% type massive
Sif1
Well-Known Member
I know quite a bit about filters. Its more to do with the volume of air movement for the size of the room. Its a pretty larget room. And we can not have smell leakage at all.
Size is 13m long , 8m wide, 5 m H. 500m³= 17657.33ft³
GrassBurner
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Now that is a proper man cave. Killer setup, looks like you've got things dialed in.
Renfro
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So I am getting this right, 100 x 600 watt HPS?
What are your ambient temperatures running (outdoor)?
I get 520 cubic meters and 18363 cubic feet.
I get 53 watts per square foot, thats acceptable, I bet you are actually closer to 60 since you probably have some floor space dedicated to other stuff.
So is there going to be any duct work associated with the fans?
Filters?
Are they to be intake or exhaust or push pull? I know you mentioned extraction fans but I might be tempted to use intake and extraction on a push pull arrangement. Is odor control a critical thing? If so then perhaps plan for scrubbers in the space and carbon filters on the exhaust using a short connection.
One of the complicating factors is intake filters, I would like to use 16 inch blowers on the intake to limit the number of intakes but the dust shrooms max out at 12 inch. I suppose you could use a 16x12x12 wye and split the flow to two dust shrooms...
If your air is like mine (dry as fuck) then thats a good thing. If it's not then you have a problem, you need to cool a 60,000 watt room, you start blowing in wet air (maybe it's raining outside) then your humidity spikes. Even with dry air you have to watch the weather and see when the humidity may jump on you and implement whatever solution you have for that, dunno what it could be sans AC, dehueys and CO2.
1littlesoldier1
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Renfro, I am using Promix HP for my mothers and ph of my run off is at 6.2. If I try to go up, they don't seem to like it so I am wondering how every plant you grew were doing stellar with a ph of 6.5-6.8. I was told that if there is no organic/amendement in your soiless mix then its considered hydro which prefers a ph between 5.8-6.2 Do you have any theory? lol
Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
No theory. Just data.
There are absolutely certain nutrients and micros, that are more easily uptaken and converted into photosynthesis energy. I'm no expert in which ones and where, But some do better closer to 5.5 while others at 6.7.
Renfro
Well-Known Member
TBH you gotta go with what works for you. For example when I did a coco run I ended up having to run a higher pH than the rules suggest. Just listen to the plants and let them tell you what they like. The main reason I don't consider a peat based soiless mix to be hydro is the buffering capability of the medium. Consider it whatever you want, doesn't matter. All that matters is the plants are thriving. Make sure they have enough but not too much of the various elements and if you see issues then it's pH.
Dividedsky
Well-Known Member
This is the best grow journal on riu. Renfro kicks some solid easy to understand info. I referenced this journal to friends doing bigger commercial size grows. Hats off to you man, keep killing it and doing your thing.
Dividedsky
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60,000w of hid- holy shit dude! Please post a grow journal.
Sif1
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Hi Renfro,
Really appreciate your reply so will try and answer your questions best I can.
We are now in winter and temps are falling. Low 5.5c to a high of 12 c. Current humidity 83% 9.14am
The construction of the shed is freezer panels as it has been used as cold storage.The whole building is a building within a building. This is going to be a one run grow.
The Intake can be a is roller door with one or two big fans blowing through it? From the nursery. Remember I have 5m about 15feet height to play with which is a bonus.
100 x 600 watt HPS? YES
Is odor control a critical thing ? YES. most critical.
Are they to be intake or exhaust or push pull? I know you mentioned extraction fans but I might be tempted to use intake and extraction on a push pull arrangement? Can you explain this arrangement please?
Won't use C02 on this one.
Even with dry air you have to watch the weather and see when the humidity may jump on you and implement whatever solution you have for that, dunno what it could be sans AC, dehueys and CO2.
[/QUOTE] As it was a cool storage we could possibly use the aircon.
I was thinking blowing a shitload from the Nursery area into the growroom. There won't be any organic material within that area once grow room is full. It will be extremely clean.
Then having say 4 10inch fans pulling through 4 big carbon filters then ducting to HS1 room an ducting from that using another 10 carbon filter/ fan out to the processing room where a scrubber will clean it again.
Or can I just put all the fans and filters into HS1 and pull the air through ducting and out the carbon filter in that room and then sent to processing room.. Scrubbers in HS2 also.
Plus using about 30 circulating fans in the growroom?
I have attached a small plan so you can see.
Renfro
Well-Known Member
83% sounds bad but it's cold air so thats super dry. Blow that in to cool your flowering room and it will drop the RH% for you. For example 5c at 85% has 4.59 grams of water per kilogram of air. Warm that air up to 80F and it's at 20% RH. The "relative" in relative humidity is a big deal.
What about summers? What do the numbers run then? Don't wanna be stuck having to vent more since the air is warmer outside and end up with the humidity too high.
In the current situation with the cold dry air, it won't take nearly as much air exchange to cool the room, in fact a system sized for summer would probably only run a few minutes to drop the room temperature and then shut down.
Any type of vented grow is a balancing act because of the ambient temp / RH% variables. Sometimes you can't get good numbers because the outside air is too hot or too humid. Running at night is obviously helpful for the heat but could actually make the RH% number worse.
If I was setting up such an endeavor, and the ambient absolute humidity # is generally low I would want two means of controlling the environment. The ability to run sealed/co2/dehumidification and AC as well as the ability to run vented when the ambient allows it to save money and be a backup for the AC. This is how I am setup because the air is so dry here in Colorado. If I had humid outside air in the warm times then I wouldn't even bother with the venting option and just go sealed.
Right now I have my flowering rooms running with AC and CO2, dehu. But I sometimes just turn off the dehu if the air is dry outside and temps are workable, then if the RH% hits 50 the room vents down to 40% and then the CO2 generator kicks back on... So I am using the intake blower as a dehumidifier. Lest nite, this AM the ambient RH% was too high so I disabled the venting and turned the dehumidifier on until the #'s went down this afternoon.
So really unless you wanna be dicking around with the setup all the time, you want sealed, AC, Dehu and CO2.
Note, I run intake fans and the exhaust is passive as I don't need negative pressure for odor control (I run scrubbers).
The ONLY reason that I can really run with venting is the very low ambient absolute humidity numbers that I have 97% of the time AND I have AC/dehu/CO2 for times that the humidity is too high.
This neat chart lets you see the RH% changes from temp.
So it just rained outside and we take outside air thats at say 15c and 95% RH (10.11 g/kg absolute) and blow it into your room thats sitting at say 27c and that air is at 45% ish. Does that make sense? So now we have 18c / 95% air going into the room would be more like 55% (not good for flower cooling). Lots of fuckery if you don't go sealed.
I hope all that helps. It's not a simple thing and with an op your size you better have really low ambient absolute humidity numbers all the time. Would suck to get 7 weeks into flower, have big ass buds going, rainy season hits and the ventilation you rely on for cooling is pumping in so much added moisture that you get bud rot. Know that a dehumidifier or humidifier can't keep up with a ventilation system designed to cool 60kW, may as well set it outside and run it lol.
Sif1
Well-Known Member
Ok, So I really need a dehu's that will run up to 25tons. Right the search is on. Should be able to source them here. Time window is important.
Must be sealed also. Shit I've under estimated this, But can be sorted.
Summer can run from 15 to 33c with 100%r/h
You better have really low ambient absolute humidity numbers all the time.? Where do I need to be at consistently?
Renfro
Well-Known Member
Sif1
Well-Known Member
Will do once running. Want this to be happening within 3 weeks from now. Pressure is on. Thinking 5 plants per sq/m and I'll hand water...lol, Run to waste.
Dividedsky
Well-Known Member
Nice, hey I was going to say what was mentioned above and just run a sealed room with proper A/C. It would probably save you a lot of headaches.
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