Clone or a clone of a clone

getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
i re read because im not a dick and it turns out , when i quoted YOUR post , it was because it was the only on topic post. I should of said "can we please get back on topic like this guy" ....i worded it wrong and quoted the wrong post or something. i was not at all talking TO you in that comment, i worded it wrong....100% my fault...im the dick :wall:

Truly sorry i did not re-read first. my bad...... and you have been a bit of help. my questions were simply , why do they change when spek says they are identical.
 
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DaFreak

Well-Known Member
You can easily spot 15 growers who know their shit here and non of them say anything other than count from the flip or that it doesn’t matter because they are done when they are done. And species is taught in grade school, don’t blame me that you let somebody convince you to ignore the English language.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
Look the difference is there but it can only be measured by a lab. The actual clones look/grow identically.
And even if a clone grows differently, most likely it does so because of different later factors. (eg environment...)
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Thats the original topic i was trying to ask about. My 15 year old phenos are not the same as they used to be. Its a pretty big difference. One has giant gaps between nodes, where it used to just be big gaps. 3-4" back then , now 8-12" ......thats just one of the many changes throughout their lifetime. One of them is just so weak it cannot handle my regular organic methods anymore. a lot less resistant then they used to be too.....
I guess the answer is to just keep the mother heathly and that wont happen ?
 
Crown n coke

Crown n coke

Well-Known Member
I recently took a few clones off a plant and have gotton some really weird results so far. I'm wondering if the location at which they were taken from matters because the mother started showing strong issues soon after. I don't think taking the clones did that to her, but I think the problems were present in the branches at different stages at the time I cut them. Could this be true?
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Crown n coke said:
I recently took a few clones off a plant and have gotton some really weird results so far. I'm wondering if the location at which they were taken from matters because the mother started showing strong issues soon after. I don't think taking the clones did that to her, but I think the problems were present in the branches at different stages at the time I cut them. Could this be true?
Click to expand...
i dont think thats possible but i may be wrong..... someone else will chime in ...
 
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DaFreak

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
Thats the original topic i was trying to ask about. My 15 year old phenos are not the same as they used to be. Its a pretty big difference. One has giant gaps between nodes, where it used to just be big gaps. 3-4" back then , now 8-12" ......thats just one of the many changes throughout their lifetime. One of them is just so weak it cannot handle my regular organic methods anymore. a lot less resistant then they used to be too.....
I guess the answer is to just keep the mother heathly and that wont happen ?
Click to expand...
look into tissue culture kits, as far as I know that's the only way to rule out everything except genetics because if done right disease isn't supposed to carry over. if that doesn't do it then after 15 years it may have just mutated, which is something any living organism can do. If you like the smoke I would just self it with CS and try a few beans.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
DaFreak said:
look into tissue culture kits, as far as I know that's the only way to rule out everything except genetics because if done right disease isn't supposed to carry over. if that doesn't do it then after 15 years it may have just mutated, which is something any living organism can do. If you like the smoke I would just self it with CS and try a few beans.
Click to expand...
i was just interested in the whole mess of it all and wondering why it happens. thank you! .... The old genetics i have are being bred with themselves and others and back with themselves ect... Im not the one doing all that.
I have some newer strains that im happy with but i dont want the same thing happening to them. tissue culture sounds too clean for me :eyesmoke: , hell i wouldnt have mites if i was that clean with my shit. Nah tissue is something i been wanting to get into for a few years now , i just havent decided to read more into it just yet,
Thanks man!
 
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DaFreak

Well-Known Member
Ideally if your garden is dialed in, the best ones are least touched. Even for people who train heavily, within that realm touch as little as possible. Just have to let them be. And feed and water them of course.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
Thats the original topic i was trying to ask about. My 15 year old phenos are not the same as they used to be. Its a pretty big difference. One has giant gaps between nodes, where it used to just be big gaps. 3-4" back then , now 8-12" ......thats just one of the many changes throughout their lifetime. One of them is just so weak it cannot handle my regular organic methods anymore. a lot less resistant then they used to be too.....
I guess the answer is to just keep the mother heathly and that wont happen ?
Click to expand...
The process of ageing of lifeforms is currently not fully understood. There are several theories revolving around it, but biology offers much too many variances to get everything under one hat. It may be that it's simply too complex.... but some stuff is known:
The more old a lifeform gets the more its body seems to "forget" the internal repair processes. It's not known why this is so e.g. what kind of evolutionairy purpose such a design does harbour - so scientists suggest it simply wasn't a reason for evolutionairy stiffle before...

Is tissue culture actually viable, I mean would it worth the costs? If it is with stemcells then they should stay the same. These cells never forget "the repair" (but still there will be other factors...)
There are currently 2 known animalic lifeforms which always make use of these (toti- & pluripotent) stemcells so their body doesn't age from the point of maturity onward. But they never, ever get old in nature (fishfood).

Maybe some day scientists will unravel the mystery to get to the Apomixis seeds (maybe via chemicals or hormones) and that would change the quality of food at the whole world for all of us by some margin. In an evergrowing humane population this is something that we are actually going to need in the near future... all plants worlwide would be the "Breeder's cut" (absolute best genetic) in the year sown...
:weed:
 
Thundercat

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
i was just interested in the whole mess of it all and wondering why it happens.

I have some newer strains that im happy with but i dont want the same thing happening to them. tissue culture sounds too clean for me :eyesmoke: , hell i wouldnt have mites if i was that clean with my shit.
Click to expand...
You basically explained one reason why your clones have changed over time right here. You aren’t keeping good enough care of them and they have been damaged over time. Having bugs/pests, environmental issues, or pathogens can all cause plants to loose vigor and to grow differently over time.

It’s not some big mystery.

Another thing that doesn’t get addressed often enough is what a phenotype actually is.

phenotype / phenotypes

The observable physical properties of an organism, such as the organism's appearance, development, and behavior.
www.nature.com

Plants change with their environment. And it’s not the genetics changing it’s the way the plant can express those genetics based on its conditions. So can you honestly say that your grow conditions havnt changed in 15 years.

I’ve given my keeper cuts to multiple other growers over the years and they are never the same or usually even close to what they are in my gardens. It’s not because the genetics changed or they are bad growers. It happens because the environments are different which causes the plants to be different.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Thundercat said:
You basically explained one reason why your clones have changed over time right here. You aren’t keeping good enough care of them and they have been damaged over time. Having bugs/pests, environmental issues, or pathogens can all cause plants to loose vigor and to grow differently over time.

It’s not some big mystery.

Another thing that doesn’t get addressed often enough is what a phenotype actually is.

phenotype / phenotypes

The observable physical properties of an organism, such as the organism's appearance, development, and behavior.
www.nature.com

Plants change with their environment. And it’s not the genetics changing it’s the way the plant can express those genetics based on its conditions. So can you honestly say that your grow conditions havnt changed in 15 years.

I’ve given my keeper cuts to multiple other growers over the years and they are never the same or usually even close to what they are in my gardens. It’s not because the genetics changed or they are bad growers. It happens because the environments are different which causes the plants to be different.
Click to expand...
The environment could have altered the genetics i suppose ?
The changes im speaking of have nothing to do with environment. I have waaay too many environments for that to be possible. (multiple people , methods, ect..)
The article a few pages back explains it good enough for me. Then, what Kassi posted matches the rest of the world.
ill just stick to what ive always thought and just keep the same mother as long as possible.
 
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