radiant Rudy
Well-Known Member
Male
bodhi seeds
- Thread starter dankydonky
- Start date
bythekasiz
Well-Known Member
Ah thanks, I was gonna guess that but didn’t wanna jinx it ha
raggyb
Well-Known Member
you don't get a shoe smell in there? haha, mine must be smellin like basement.
raggyb
Well-Known Member
now I have to goodle something else. dag.I think epigenetics is the key to the reg vs. fem. debate. If epigenetics is truly in play, there's a reason to prefer regs if you can tolerate the inconvenience of sexing plants. Otherwise, I agree with you that fems are vilified unfairly. I'm kinda torn on the debate. I have a slight preference for regs based on a personal hunch that epigenetics may factor in, and I like convenient pollen-chucking. But I'm not scared of fems at all... I'll buy both. And I'll grow seeds from hermie accidents too if I like the genes.
That said, Bodhi is a male/female kinda guy and that's what he does. I think he believes in forces that science hasn't explained yet and keeping plants happy and doing what they want to do naturally in perfect conditions has an impact. If you don't like regs, Bodhi's not for you and that's ok. There are plenty of breeders who work the fem side with similar genes. People on this thread have accepted the all-reg situation and are on the train, males and all. The fem debate is a moot point with Bodhi. It's an argument for the sake of an argument and we're protective about fighting in this thread.
raggyb
Well-Known Member
wait is she sexy like Lisa Ling? I'm losing track... sorry all i forgot this is thread is no joknig, oops freudian typo . lol
Nutbag Poster
Well-Known Member
Hah. I'm pretty new to the concept myself. Short story... plants (and humans!) appear to have some degree of a "genetic memory". The genetics are altered somehow by experiences of prior generations... even many many back. Famines, diseases, etc. can have consequences for generations to come. No promises I have this right though.
colocowboy
Well-Known Member
All due respect your comments are not of scientific relevance and don’t really speak to what you’re trying to make as a point. Genetics of each individual is exactly what we’re talking about and is exactly the point it is not a mishmash that the plant picks from. I’m also not gonna Savage you and make some shitty comments, we can agree to disagree but what you said is not a “fact.”Yes epigenetic has a role to play. Fact is people see genetic like something that rule everything, when in fact genetic is more like a recipe book and the organism pick up what it needs in the moment. But right now we don't know and even if there is indeed an influence, i am not sure it is really so strong. And study this is so hard as there is so many more factor.
Also i am ok with reg, i never said i want to forbid them
Not long ago i said to a friend "i am tired of reg i won't grow them except bodhi" and this is probably what gonna happens. But surely if bodhi make some fem one day, and it's sure it won't happens, but if he does, i will be the first customer.
Fems have their place, I never said they didn’t.
Only issue I really have with all of that is that people, breeders, need to pay attention to selection of individuals that do not distribute intersex traits into the gene pool. Since no study exists that can prove this more than anecdotal it’s just mental masturbation.
Ultimately I believe your point was made in that last post, you wish Bodhi would make you some fems. That’s great. The rest of your tirade proved nothing, sorry but yelling “fact” doesn’t equat one lol. Anyone that’s wound up with a bunch of hermies in their crop would probably agree with me that a little more stability in the generalized gene pool would be appreciated. Was my only real point, and that just because people here have a general philosophy doesn’t make it wrong, the point of that would be make them yourself!
@Diesel0889 I am sorry if I came off like dick head, I’m working on my anger. I would like to see some science on this topic eventually, personally. Finally I’m very happy Bodhi has a focus of his breeding projects right where it is, I love this thread and I love all of you. Keep growing history my growmies! Keep spreading the love and making the world better one seed at a time!
AdvancedBuffalo
Well-Known Member
Haha this is so "I am very smart" to the point that it is making me cringe. Congratulations on taking classes on basic biology, botany, and plant physiology. You paid someone to teach you things that most people can learn on the internet via reading scientific literature. A basic undergrad degree doesn’t make you a genius. It make you an average person with a base level knowledge on the mechanisms that you describe.And you are exactly the kind of guy i describe. You don't even know why you hate fem and S1. Community ideological purity i guess, because you have no argument and surely didn't even try to answer mine.
Yes good males are hard to come by and require skill and time, so as i said breeding with fem and S1 are easier and quicker (yes it's the dark side little padawan). Their is this blockage on breeding with fem only, for a reason i don't understand. Some commercial breeder out there seems to not have this mind restriction and work their line without male, and i am not sure they get so much problem... If use STS is so horrible i surely recommend to never enter in a scientific lab, you will have a heart attack
And yes i am a "beggar" because when i start of pack of 12 seeds that i paid 75$ and get 2 females i find it boring, especially when i don't want to make breeding with the males. It's pure waste of time, money and space.
If you want to talk genetic and breeding, i think i can do it, i spend 5 years learning in a university how plant are working.
The only thing i must grant against sts are in the epigenetic. It's how an organism regulate it's own gene expression, and experiences modify how the organism's gene express themself. For example for us human, a woman that was rape will have a different expression of some gene that are related to anxiety regulation, and these modification will pass on next generations. I don't think i ever read a study that talk of epigenetic in cannabis, so we don't know if the sts process have an influence in that regard, so there is the the benefit of the doubt, but in fact their is many other factor like environment and stress...
But in the pure genetic way, i don't believe sts do something wrong...
Second, not once did anyone openly insult S1 and feminization. It’s clear that genetics aren’t changed with STS reversals, and DNA methylation can be reversed with tissue culture so that isn’t a big deal. Nobody is arguing that fems seeds are bad. They just don’t scale well. It’s a lot of work. Do you get the concept of economy of scale? Breeding regs is easy, low maintenance, delivers beneficial male progeny, and keeps costs down. More strains can be created, tested, and sold for lower costs compared to fems. You are asking Bodhi to basically quintuple his work load so you don’t have to fill as much space when hunting through seeds. As I said, beggars can’t be choosers.
And dude, you are actually using rape as an example of epigenetic changes? Out of all of the possible fucking examples you could use, you chose rape... Yeah why don’t you go grab some Gage gear.
AdvancedBuffalo
Well-Known Member
Basically, environmental stressors can trigger gene expression that is passed down to children for multiple generations. This is primarily done with different mechanisms that physically alter the structure of the DNA, and that structure is maintained through replication.
A good non-rape example of this is shorter life expectancies of individuals who’s distant relatives experienced long periods of severe famine.
Clones can get super messed up when passed along repeatedly. All it takes is one grower with a horrible environment and boom! Questionable gene expression for multiple generations of clones and even seeds! Luckily plant life cycles are relatively short so these kinks can be worked out over time. Or one can run a tissue culture on new plant tissue to hopefully create offspring with cleaner DNA.
It’s a super cool area of research and we really don’t know much about it. We know it plays a role in genetic expression, but do not have any idea to what degree or duration.
radiant Rudy
Well-Known Member
Thanks man. Out of this Chem 1 x SSDD pair the other plant, un sexed, so far is much stinkier. Grateful for Jah's blessing if both were female.
I'll put up a pic when sex is confirmed.
raggyb
Well-Known Member
i wikied and read one page before i burned out. think i saw this on pbs while i was half paying attention. someting about the genes are there but there not all turned on, and some outside trigger determines if they get turned on or not. not really what the wiki said but maybe it's part of it. so you look at a twins and one gets a gene turned on and the other doesnt and they're separated at birth so they live in different environments and then the kids of the one have greater chance of having the that gene turned on too. somethin like that maybe. i wanna turn on that skunky giggle high gene in mi plantsa
raggyb
Well-Known Member
ah see that's where the wiki was confusing me. you're saying the dna is changed, i think after the fact, so it's carried into the progeny. the wiki is like screaming that there is no dna change but i think they are saying not before the fact, that is not before or when the change occurs. or maybe that wiki just sucks.
AdvancedBuffalo
Well-Known Member
There is no structural DNA change in the helix pattern IIRC. They are little attachments that, as you stated, determine which portions of the DNA switch on and off. These get passed along to offspring, clones, etc.
Weird huh?
th6_s6t6nist
Well-Known Member
You should stop contradict yourself, it's becoming annoying : "Don't get us back to school" Then "Use your science to contredict me" and then "what you said is not scientific". So what do you want, that i write a book to explain to you everything ? Sorry i won't take the time to do it and i already say i won't, just open a book of mendel if you want to learn about genetic. That being said, i don't see what i said was wrong. If you take a hermy to make fem seeds, it is a genetic factor because the hermy express this trait "naturally", which mean this is a trait of his genotype. If you take a STS to reverse a plant that is stable, it's a manipulation, it has nothing to do with genetics. And that is all the point of sts, once the fecundation was done the fem plant have virtually nothing wrong. The only thing is about the epigenetic, again i won't repeat myself, try to understand what i said instead of block yourself in blind opposition. I will quote myself : "Fact is people see genetic like something that rule everything"... and yes, gene expressions are as (or more) important than the gene them-self, if you don't want to understand it, i don't know, never talk of science again.
Also epigenetic is a new discipline and we only start to understand how important it is, that is why i take glove and said we don't know.
Your first point : ya i never said i am a genius, it's not because i understand how it works that it makes me a genius. Simply tell fact and everyone think that you are dickhead, simply because as you understand that better better than most of them and people don't like smart ass. Just look some zetetic video on the internet...
Not here (pretty obvious) and now maybe, but frankly if you don't see people complain everywhere about fem giving them herma, i think we don't live on the same planet. And just see the shield i raise by saying "if bodhi would make fem one day it would be great". Also all you said is STS is hard work... Sorry but no i don't agree, it's easy to make liter of STS to reverse thousand of plant, and i don't see how it is harder than regular pollination. It could be a little longer maybe, but harder i don't think so.
About breeding, just think for a second of S1. You have a cut of i don't know what elite plant. You have good chance this cut is heterozygous, and you want something stable for breeding but of the same elite pheno. So let's keep it the more simple you can with one gene. The cut is Aa and A is dominant. You make S1 of it so you will mathematically get AA Aa and aa. So in fact S1 will act like a F2, it will reveal the recessive pheno but with less diversity as you have no father to add it's own diversity. Your aa is easy to spot of course, but your AA and Aa are A phenotype. So you need to reverse again all the A pheno, your line that is "stable" will throw only A dominant pheno when the other will keep throwing recessive, so now you know what plant is AA and you know this plant is stable for breeding. Of course plant have not one single gene, they have is ten (even hundred for some) of thousand and you'll probably need more generation to get the trait you want stable.
If you do this kind of thing with the regular line first you will need a good male, that will add it's own diversity to the original F1. Then you can do a backcross to get dominance of the female in the line (and it's only here when backcross is useful i think), then go the regular F2 F3 F4... Problem is, at every step you need to choose multiple male and female at every generation, to do it right you will do multiple line that you need to test every time. Female are easier to spot but again you know only the phenotype and not the genotype, male are even harder because you cannot smoke them. At end this is so complicated that not much breeder take the time of doing it properly. Or some do BS breeding like tony torture been with it's gorilla glue, i think he is at bx6 or something. Well, he can go to BX100, at end it's bx will always be no more than a S1 genetically speaking but in regular. Years of work to have something you could have done in 3 month. Just saying.
And i use this example because not long ago i read an article that speak of that. After i don't know, maybe you are too sensible to talk ?
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th6_s6t6nist
Well-Known Member
Yes we cannot know the genotype unless we go to a lab, or we can use deduction with the next generation. Genetic could go become very complicated quickly but it is base on specific law.
bongrip101
Well-Known Member
Testers of 2 Space Cake phenos, still have one yet to be cut.
OrganicGorilla
Well-Known Member
@reallybigjesusfreak tested these. They look pretty good