Which PH chart is the correct one?

D

Destroyer of chairs

Well-Known Member
Ok so I've seen so many charts and basically there are two different ones for hydro poppin up. In one of them ca and mg uptake is at about the same pH. On the other one it says u need below 5.8 for calcium uptake.

So which one is the right one guys? Please enlighten me.
chart.jpghydroponics-ph-chart-marijuana.jpgNutrient-Availability.jpgdownloadfile-2.jpg
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
I've always shot for 6.0 in flood and drain, DWC, and coco. I've never had any issues. With soil I only pH if I'm adding nutrients and then aim for around 6.8 and only because I'm adding nutrients. When it's plain water it's straight from the tap. Never any issues there either.
 
EvilScotsm@n

EvilScotsm@n

Well-Known Member
For coco/hydro you get lockouts if you go under 5.5 or over 6.5
For that reason most of us stay 5.7-6.3.
If your in a reservoir it should rise or fall depending on what your upto though so you can start at 5.5 or 6.5 and get the full swing.
 
D

Destroyer of chairs

Well-Known Member
TintEastwood said:
It depends on your grow type.
Coco.....soil.....rdwc......etc

View attachment 4620677
Click to expand...
EvilScotsm@n said:
For coco/hydro you get lockouts if you go under 5.5 or over 6.5
For that reason most of us stay 5.7-6.3.
If your in a reservoir it should rise or fall depending on what your upto though so you can start at 5.5 or 6.5 and get the full swing.
Click to expand...

Obviously. But I'm asking about the differences in the HYDRO charts.
If u look at my initial text and charts provided, some says low pH for cal uptake, some say high pH for ca update. All in HYDRO charts.

xtsho said:
I've always shot for 6.0 in flood and drain, DWC, and coco. I've never had any issues. With soil I only pH if I'm adding nutrients and then aim for around 6.8 and only because I'm adding nutrients. When it's plain water it's straight from the tap. Never any issues there either.
Click to expand...
What nutrients do u use? Organic? Mineral? Chelated?
 
EvilScotsm@n

EvilScotsm@n

Well-Known Member
Ahh yeah I see what you mean now.
Both completely different numbers. Not sure which to be honest.
My point was though mate that you need to go through the range anyway.
Don't over complicate things by worrying about what's available where. Just give it a bit of swing.
There's lots of things that will effect your ph and change how it behaves.
Pot size, res size, plant size, temperatures, rh, your watering habits, how good you are at dosing nutes, which nutes you use, water quality.
They all add up to determine wether your ph rises or falls and how fast so it's one of these things that you need to play about with to see what works best for you.

Doesn't matter if it's available at 5.7 or 6.3 cos you should be hitting both ends anyway to ensure everything has a chance to be absorbed.
This is why I like reservoirs. If you get things dialed in you start at one end and the res adjusts itself to the other over 5-7 days.
Can pretty much just forget about it the rest of the time.
 
D

Destroyer of chairs

Well-Known Member
EvilScotsm@n said:
Ahh yeah I see what you mean now.
Both completely different numbers. Not sure which to be honest.
My point was though mate that you need to go through the range anyway.
Don't over complicate things by worrying about what's available where. Just give it a bit of swing.
There's lots of things that will effect your ph and change how it behaves.
Pot size, res size, plant size, temperatures, rh, your watering habits, how good you are at dosing nutes, which nutes you use, water quality.
They all add up to determine wether your ph rises or falls and how fast so it's one of these things that you need to play about with to see what works best for you.

Doesn't matter if it's available at 5.7 or 6.3 cos you should be hitting both ends anyway to ensure everything has a chance to be absorbed.
This is why I like reservoirs. If you get things dialed in you start at one end and the res adjusts itself to the other over 5-7 days.
Can pretty much just forget about it the rest of the time.
Click to expand...
Right? Freakin weird.
Yeah I ph my feed at 5.5 and it comes out above 6. Cause I assume they are rising.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Destroyer of chairs said:
Obviously. But I'm asking about the differences in the HYDRO charts.
If u look at my initial text and charts provided, some says low pH for cal uptake, some say high pH for ca update. All in HYDRO charts.



What nutrients do u use? Organic? Mineral? Chelated?
Click to expand...
Soluble salts
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to throw this out there because it's not always a simple matter of pH ing the nutrients.

Root zone pH is what matters most if you are growing in a medium like peat based mix or coco. Often you could be feeding at say 6.5 but the soil is buffered and it at a different pH like 5.5 or 7.5. In this case you think you are feeding at the proper pH but the results are less than optimal. A runoff test may indicate the direction of the root zone pH from your feed but is't accurate. So for example you may feed at 6.5, run off is at 6.0 and the actual root zone pH could be 5.2. We can tell the pH is low but we can't tell exactly how low with a run off pH test. Therefore I highly recommend using a soil pH meter like the blue lab.

Amazon.com : Bluelab PENSOILPH pH Pen for Soil, Coco, Rockwool and Solution, Easy Calibration : Soil Testers : Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com : Bluelab PENSOILPH pH Pen for Soil, Coco, Rockwool and Solution, Easy Calibration : Soil Testers : Garden & Outdoor
www.amazon.com

This will measure liquids as well as your medium pH.

If growing in DWC then you don't have this worry.
 
D

Destroyer of chairs

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Just wanted to throw this out there because it's not always a simple matter of pH ing the nutrients.

Root zone pH is what matters most if you are growing in a medium like peat based mix or coco. Often you could be feeding at say 6.5 but the soil is buffered and it at a different pH like 5.5 or 7.5. In this case you think you are feeding at the proper pH but the results are less than optimal. A runoff test may indicate the direction of the root zone pH from your feed but is't accurate. So for example you may feed at 6.5, run off is at 6.0 and the actual root zone pH could be 5.2. We can tell the pH is low but we can't tell exactly how low with a run off pH test. Therefore I highly recommend using a soil pH meter like the blue lab.

Amazon.com : Bluelab PENSOILPH pH Pen for Soil, Coco, Rockwool and Solution, Easy Calibration : Soil Testers : Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com : Bluelab PENSOILPH pH Pen for Soil, Coco, Rockwool and Solution, Easy Calibration : Soil Testers : Garden & Outdoor
www.amazon.com

This will measure liquids as well as your medium pH.

If growing in DWC then you don't have this worry.
Click to expand...
This makes alot of sense, cause I buffered my coco at at 6.3 PH. And even when I put in feed at 5.5, it still come out close to 6.3(6.2-6.3).
But how do I fix this? I want it at 5.8.
Appreciate the info kind sir.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
You don't really "fix" it but you can offset feed and get the plants happy. It will require monitoring of the root zone pH and application of calculated corrective feeds. You can push the medium pH much closer to your target but the buffers in the medium will keep trying to move the pH off target. Once you get the medium beat into submission then the offset feed pH isn't as radical.

Medium pH Correction (Soil and Coco)

Checking and adjusting the pH of your root zone in soil or coco is a very important part of growing healthy plants. Often you will notice nutrient deficiencies despite the fact you know you have provided an ample feed at an appropriate pH level. When this happens it’s generally either...
www.rollitup.org
 
D

Destroyer of chairs

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
You don't really "fix" it but you can offset feed and get the plants happy. It will require monitoring of the root zone pH and application of calculated corrective feeds. You can push the medium pH much closer to your target but the buffers in the medium will keep trying to move the pH off target. Once you get the medium beat into submission then the offset feed pH isn't as radical.

Medium pH Correction (Soil and Coco)

Checking and adjusting the pH of your root zone in soil or coco is a very important part of growing healthy plants. Often you will notice nutrient deficiencies despite the fact you know you have provided an ample feed at an appropriate pH level. When this happens it’s generally either...
www.rollitup.org
Click to expand...
Finished reading ur thread. Kinda derailed on the last page, first two were informative though hah :p

But OK so if my coco is buffered and trying to push to 6.3 and my target is 5.8, then I should mix up 5.3? Will this acidic mix kill my hydroguard? Gonna mix it soon would love some input from u on this.

Can't get myself to so this without someone telling me its all right, as it just seems too acidic..
 
Gentlemencorpse

Gentlemencorpse

Well-Known Member
Destroyer of chairs said:
Obviously. But I'm asking about the differences in the HYDRO charts.
If u look at my initial text and charts provided, some says low pH for cal uptake, some say high pH for ca update. All in HYDRO charts.



What nutrients do u use? Organic? Mineral? Chelated?
Click to expand...
The problem is a lack of actual, peer reviewed scientific research available ... I doubt anyone can say definitively which one is 100% correct .. we know which ranges work for which mediums from anecdotal and experience based evidence and thats good enough for most growers. Is there a particular issue or something that your looking to address or are you just trying to optimize your grow?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Destroyer of chairs said:
Finished reading ur thread. Kinda derailed on the last page, first two were informative though hah :p

But OK so if my coco is buffered and trying to push to 6.3 and my target is 5.8, then I should mix up 5.3? Will this acidic mix kill my hydroguard? Gonna mix it soon would love some input from u on this.

Can't get myself to so this without someone telling me its all right, as it just seems too acidic..
Click to expand...
It won't cause issues with your microbes. @DoubleAtotheRON has some experience with this method as I gave him the same advice I am giving you, perhaps he will pop by next time he logs on.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Destroyer of chairs said:
Finished reading ur thread. Kinda derailed on the last page, first two were informative though hah :p

But OK so if my coco is buffered and trying to push to 6.3 and my target is 5.8, then I should mix up 5.3? Will this acidic mix kill my hydroguard? Gonna mix it soon would love some input from u on this.

Can't get myself to so this without someone telling me its all right, as it just seems too acidic..
Click to expand...
Ive ran 4.0 through soil on every feeding with no issues. You obviously cannot do that in perlite or hydro but good soil buffers itself. (4.0-4.8 was mixed up Earthjuice food an water , no ph up....... So yes medium plays more of a role then the food ph just like renfro mentioned.
 
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