Why is defoliation so controversial?

Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
I thought it was settled science that judicious defoliation virtually eliminates larf.
Click to expand...
Instead of removing the leaves to get more light to the lowers. One could argue that simply removing those lower budsites/larf would direct more energy to the tops. Kinda like a scrog, or sog, where you are only worried about the tops.
 
lime73

lime73

Weed Modifier
depends on the " why " you are doing it.

@Hobbes is doing it to control stretch during flowering. Plus Pm issues During flower.

If done moderately can benefit. But some go to the extreme Not understanding there are other proven ways to accomplish what your actually "trying" to do.
 
TerrapinBlazin

TerrapinBlazin

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
Instead of removing the leaves to get more light to the lowers. One could argue that simply removing those lower budsites/larf would direct more energy to the tops. Kinda like a scrog, or sog, where you are only worried about the tops.
Click to expand...
True, and I combine leaf removal with scrogging to keep larf to a minimum. I also cut off some lower branches if they don’t stretch. It’s a combination of things IMO. There’s no one magic bullet for getting a huge yield of dense buds and no larf. I feel like defoliation allows me to leave more lower branches on that might just otherwise turn into larf.
 
A

Apalchen

Well-Known Member
I defoliate my garden hard, and have for years. I don't really feel like arguing about it but I will say if you fill your canopy up the way it should be defoliation is about the only way not to have a larf factory and get air flow inside the canopy.

I've grown both ways and you need to space your plants out more if you don't defoliate.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
TerrapinBlazin said:
True, and I combine leaf removal with scrogging to keep larf to a minimum. I also cut off some lower branches if they don’t stretch. It’s a combination of things IMO. There’s no one magic bullet for getting a huge yield of dense buds and no larf. I feel like defoliation allows me to leave more lower branches on that might just otherwise turn into larf.
Click to expand...
If i wasnt lazy i would scrog every grow while completely defoliating everything below the canopy. The only scrog i have done yielded more good solid nugs than any other way i have tried. Getting under that screen on my hands and knees to trim and water for months is not something i want to do anytime soon
 
A

Apalchen

Well-Known Member
Doing a side by side of defoliation against plants that aren't would require seperate tents or tables. Doing one plant beside another in a tent that is half full isn't gonna do anything.

Defoliation let's you grow plants more crowded together. If you don't have a canopy from wall to wall and you have space between your plants extreme defoliation isn't necessary. If you want to squeeze the most from your grow area a crowded canopy is the way to do it unless your running side lighting. But if you grow a crowded canopy and don't take off enough leaf or have enough light then you end up with a lot of larf, not to mention the problems of not having enough air flow.

I could give someone the same plant at the end of veg and they might end up with more weed from that one plant than me if they only have a few per light and the plant has plenty of space. But I would still yield more per sq ft of grow space because I can fit 1.5 or 2 plants in the same space that one plant took up.

To do that without getting a lot of larf I strip the plants hard around day 21, and sometimes again at day 42.

If you have IG look up the hash tag #mangotech should be lots of pictures demonstrating what I'm trying to explain.
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
Apalchen said:
Doing a side by side of defoliation against plants that aren't would require seperate tents or tables. Doing one plant beside another in a tent that is half full isn't gonna do anything.

Defoliation let's you grow plants more crowded together. If you don't have a canopy from wall to wall and you have space between your plants extreme defoliation isn't necessary. If you want to squeeze the most from your grow area a crowded canopy is the way to do it unless your running side lighting. But if you grow a crowded canopy and don't take off enough leaf or have enough light then you end up with a lot of larf, not to mention the problems of not having enough air flow.

I could give someone the same plant at the end of veg and they might end up with more weed from that one plant than me if they only have a few per light and the plant has plenty of space. But I would still yield more per sq ft of grow space because I can fit 1.5 or 2 plants in the same space that one plant took up.

To do that without getting a lot of larf I strip the plants hard around day 21, and sometimes again at day 42.

If you have IG look up the hash tag #mangotech should be lots of pictures demonstrating what I'm trying to explain.
Click to expand...
Klx on here does a similiar thing. Many plants, closely spaced in a hydro flood and drain. It works for him
 
A

Apalchen

Well-Known Member
MickFoster said:
Yes. But I still don't understand why you mentioned the hydro/soil thing?
We were talking about defoliation.

Edit: Nevermind......I know what you were getting at now.
Click to expand...
I don't grow in soil but I would be worried about stunting by defoliating as hard as I do in soil. I feel like if your plants aren't healthy and growing fast it could def set you behind.

A few days after defol
Screenshot_20200817-135429.png

Halfway done with defol
Screenshot_20200817-135651.png

Before defol
Screenshot_20200817-135457.png
 
Boatguy

Boatguy

Well-Known Member
lime73 said:
as we know severe stress can cause issues and possibly affect our final outcome.
Click to expand...
That is where the argument lies. If your grow isnt dialed in, any problems while without leaves would be a killer. Not to mention, most of us amateurs, use leaves to detect deficiencies and other problems. No leaves, no symptoms..... no problem?
 
NukaKola

NukaKola

Well-Known Member
Experienced growers and multi-million dollar cannabis facilities that have decades of combined experience and tons of money and resources into research don't use extreme defoliation for a reason. If it was proven to be beneficial I am sure they would and at this point in time would be a mainstream thing.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
CannaOnerStar

CannaOnerStar

Well-Known Member
Its controversial because people tend to have a black & white view on things and the truth about it is in shades of grey.

There are leafs that might be good idea to remove, rarely is a heavy defoliation a good idea imo, but sometimes it might be. There are various reasons to remove a leaf, but more reasons not to remove one. If you dont know if a leaf is ok to be removed or not, then you should not be randomly removing leafs.

Some of the principles in removing leafs is that if you remove it, the light it would catch ABSOLUTELY MUST be catched by another leaf close to it. If you remove a leaf, the budsite growing from it must be big enough to be able to take care of itself and get enough light to grow. If a leaf is not getting any light and is just in a bottom of a bushy plant preventing air circulation, then its a good idea to defoliate a bit from down stairs, and also remove any budsites from them, because they wouldnt grow big either due to lack of light down the plant. If you can tuck a leaf to stop it from shading, its much better, especially in vegging. During flowering tucking tons of leafs might cause it to be too humid and cause bud rot. blablabla

TLDR; if you dont know what you are doing, dont do it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top