A cautionary tail on Spinosad

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rkmcdon

Well-Known Member
We had some spider mites about 3 months ago that were hard to get rid of. We are a fully organic grow and only use omri listed insecticides. I used spinosad sprayer 3 weeks into flower and it worked well. Spider mites disappeared and haven’t been back.
Unfortunately we tested that flower this week and both cultivars failed pesticide testing for spinosad. I didn’t actually realize spinosad would be tested for but I’m not sure that would have made a difference. I really didn’t think 3 weeks into flower would still be around at harvest, and I guess I let the “organic” label lull me into a sense if security.
I’m not saying don’t use spinosad, but if you have to pass regulatory testing, I would advise caution
 
R

rkmcdon

Well-Known Member
Just an update for the sake of accuracy. I went back through our logs and we had actually sprayed again in week 6 of flower. Something we normally dont do, but the bugs were getting out of control so we decided to risk it.
This presents an interesting opportunity in that we sent a cultivar for testing yesterday that was sprayed with spinosad at week 4 and in 2 weeks we'll send two cultivars that were sprayed at week 2 of flower. I'll update this thread with results as they become available
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
rkmcdon said:
Just an update for the sake of accuracy. I went back through our logs and we had actually sprayed again in week 6 of flower. Something we normally dont do, but the bugs were getting out of control so we decided to risk it.
This presents an interesting opportunity in that we sent a cultivar for testing yesterday that was sprayed with spinosad at week 4 and in 2 weeks we'll send two cultivars that were sprayed at week 2 of flower. I'll update this thread with results as they become available
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In Oklahoma, you can't find dispensary weed that hasn't been sprayed with some kind of essential oil. I can't smoke the stuff, it will give me an asthma attack but I don't get it so bad from my smoke. My wife is going to an Ag school for horticulture(greenhouse maintenance) and she brought up a very interesting concept to me, using flowers to attract beneficial insects. She is now selling houseplants and we have a HUGE variety of insects that come here. The trick is to find the right flower for the insects because they all have different mouth parts and they can't feed on any flower plant. For example, green lacewings and lady bugs both like yarrow(which grows wild in my yard) so we decided to plant more yarrow and it has several different cultivars in "Yarrow". There is also trap plants, which attract the bad insects away from your crop. My wife planted corn in our backyard and aphids went to it first. By the time that they established a colony, the beneficial insects were moving in. So, if you or your wife have any interest in growing ornamental flowers, you should encourage it! The list is bigger than just these insects listed, so don't limit yourself to just this list: https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/10/04/plants-attract-beneficial-insects/


This is a hummingbird moth and they are supposed to be fairly rare to see in your garden. Spinosad will kill pollinators like this. Your lungs and nature will thank you... Just made some dedicated flower beds next to your grow, even if it's indoor growing, and let nature help you.
DSC01338.JPG
 
Craigson

Craigson

Well-Known Member
Its common knowledge not to spray anything after week 2 of flower no??

i mean regardless of ‘half life’.
Spraying in wk 6 is kind of a joke. Did the buds pass ‘foreign matter’ testing? Or do they not have to?? (Like the dead bugs n shit would still be there even if the spinosad wasnt)

so the better question is, why not scrap the grow instead of hoping to make a shitty harvest and squeak by testing??

kind of embarrassing that you woukd even try that on peoples medicine.
 
R

rkmcdon

Well-Known Member
MustangStudFarm said:
In Oklahoma, you can't find dispensary weed that hasn't been sprayed with some kind of essential oil. I can't smoke the stuff, it will give me an asthma attack but I don't get it so bad from my smoke. My wife is going to an Ag school for horticulture(greenhouse maintenance) and she brought up a very interesting concept to me, using flowers to attract beneficial insects. She is now selling houseplants and we have a HUGE variety of insects that come here. The trick is to find the right flower for the insects because they all have different mouth parts and they can't feed on any flower plant. For example, green lacewings and lady bugs both like yarrow(which grows wild in my yard) so we decided to plant more yarrow and it has several different cultivars in "Yarrow". There is also trap plants, which attract the bad insects away from your crop. My wife planted corn in our backyard and aphids went to it first. By the time that they established a colony, the beneficial insects were moving in. So, if you or your wife have any interest in growing ornamental flowers, you should encourage it! The list is bigger than just these insects listed, so don't limit yourself to just this list: https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/10/04/plants-attract-beneficial-insects/


This is a hummingbird moth and they are supposed to be fairly rare to see in your garden. Spinosad will kill pollinators like this. Your lungs and nature will thank you... Just made some dedicated flower beds next to your grow, even if it's indoor growing, and let nature help you.
View attachment 4666774
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Thanks for the input!
Our grow is indoors, so I don't think we can really attract bugs this way. I do however regularly release assassin bugs and lacewings as well as nematodes, rove beetles, and beneficial mites as needed. I try to keep things under control with these guys only spray neem oil and safer soap limited to veg and the first 3 weeks of flower, but we had a bit of an unusual situation occur that left us in a lurch and scrambling to get things back under control. Hopefully it was a one time situation and we wont get caught like that again
 
Macncheesehaze

Macncheesehaze

Well-Known Member
MustangStudFarm said:
In Oklahoma, you can't find dispensary weed that hasn't been sprayed with some kind of essential oil. I can't smoke the stuff, it will give me an asthma attack but I don't get it so bad from my smoke. My wife is going to an Ag school for horticulture(greenhouse maintenance) and she brought up a very interesting concept to me, using flowers to attract beneficial insects. She is now selling houseplants and we have a HUGE variety of insects that come here. The trick is to find the right flower for the insects because they all have different mouth parts and they can't feed on any flower plant. For example, green lacewings and lady bugs both like yarrow(which grows wild in my yard) so we decided to plant more yarrow and it has several different cultivars in "Yarrow". There is also trap plants, which attract the bad insects away from your crop. My wife planted corn in our backyard and aphids went to it first. By the time that they established a colony, the beneficial insects were moving in. So, if you or your wife have any interest in growing ornamental flowers, you should encourage it! The list is bigger than just these insects listed, so don't limit yourself to just this list: https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/10/04/plants-attract-beneficial-insects/


This is a hummingbird moth and they are supposed to be fairly rare to see in your garden. Spinosad will kill pollinators like this. Your lungs and nature will thank you... Just made some dedicated flower beds next to your grow, even if it's indoor growing, and let nature help you.
View attachment 4666774
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I like this concept a lot.
 
Skoal

Skoal

Well-Known Member
It’s a very easy concept. May take a little longer to dry the buds since they wet. I never have enough room to hang all my branches after a wash. It’s so much easier to hang the entire plant for me.
 
Nex420

Nex420

Well-Known Member
Just harvested my auto today, it was perfect size for a wash.
But obviously for bigger plants it is a pain to break each branch. Better than smoking Spinosad residues or a shit ton of bug shits :)
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I have to wonder about anyone who is growing commercial pot that needs testing spraying anything on buds. puke.gif

Leave that to Canadian LPs but I'd never buy any of their crap either.

circle.gif
 
P

PissingNutes

Active Member
MustangStudFarm said:
In Oklahoma, you can't find dispensary weed that hasn't been sprayed with some kind of essential oil. I can't smoke the stuff, it will give me an asthma attack but I don't get it so bad from my smoke. My wife is going to an Ag school for horticulture(greenhouse maintenance) and she brought up a very interesting concept to me, using flowers to attract beneficial insects. She is now selling houseplants and we have a HUGE variety of insects that come here. The trick is to find the right flower for the insects because they all have different mouth parts and they can't feed on any flower plant. For example, green lacewings and lady bugs both like yarrow(which grows wild in my yard) so we decided to plant more yarrow and it has several different cultivars in "Yarrow". There is also trap plants, which attract the bad insects away from your crop. My wife planted corn in our backyard and aphids went to it first. By the time that they established a colony, the beneficial insects were moving in. So, if you or your wife have any interest in growing ornamental flowers, you should encourage it! The list is bigger than just these insects listed, so don't limit yourself to just this list: https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/10/04/plants-attract-beneficial-insects/


This is a hummingbird moth and they are supposed to be fairly rare to see in your garden. Spinosad will kill pollinators like this. Your lungs and nature will thank you... Just made some dedicated flower beds next to your grow, even if it's indoor growing, and let nature help you.
View attachment 4666774
Click to expand...
Get the ones that attract night insects and bats to drop the guano directly in your beds.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Always good to have a list of approved products for your state. If not that then a list of what is tested for at least.
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Here in Canaduh they have a list of approved sprays for bugs, fungus etc that legal pot producers can use on their crops up until harvest so if traces show up on testing that's OK. All these products are approved for fruits and veggies but have zero testing for what happens to them when combusted and inhaled.

I don't know about you but something doesn't seem right about that. Kind of like how we are all lab rats testing the effects of GMO plants and the toxic sprays they use to grow them. So far so good but they used to use tobacco smoking to treat asthma too. ;)

:peace:
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
OldMedUser said:
Here in Canaduh they have a list of approved sprays for bugs, fungus etc that legal pot producers can use on their crops up until harvest so if traces show up on testing that's OK. All these products are approved for fruits and veggies but have zero testing for what happens to them when combusted and inhaled.

I don't know about you but something doesn't seem right about that. Kind of like how we are all lab rats testing the effects of GMO plants and the toxic sprays they use to grow them. So far so good but they used to use tobacco smoking to treat asthma too. ;)

:peace:
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I look at it like this, we wouldn't be able to feed our population if we didn't use pesticides on our food crops. These chemicals are researched (maybe not enough) to see if the benefits outweigh the potential for problems. Cannabis is not a food crop and therefore isn't a "necessity" that we produce more cannabis through the use of toxic chemicals. In the case of cannabis the only motivator is greed, to make money. Of course with our food crops greed is a factor but we wouldn't be able to produce enough food if we didn't accept some use of pesticides and the like. So I think that in the case of food crops, so long as the chemicals are used in the manner they are intended to be used we have to live with it.

Have I used pesticides? Yes. But I only use them in cases where the plant treated will have at least 100 days before harvest, so this means not even in late veg would I treat. Even then, some pesticides like abamectin for example will stay around, so I pass on such products. Testing is good but a problem we have in the cannabis industry is testers that take bribes to give desired results. This has been curbed to a great degree by state actions.

I think that if a product is approved for use on cannabis and the residual PPM is within "standards" the product should be labeled accordingly. You should know what you are getting. Maybe some people don't care, but the majority would pass on product with 'cides.

I firmly believe that each state should make a list of approved products, Colorado has one, Oklahoma doesn't. Some states just have a list of things you can't test positive for but they give no list of stuff that is 100% ok to use or ok but have a specific PPM limit on residuals.

In the end, we the consumers are responsible for choosing what we put in our bodies. It makes it difficult when there are no labels indicating whats in the package. Here in Colorado we have such labels and I think that will become the standard in other states but just knowing something was used in the cultivation doesn't indicate what residual may still be left, we simply have to accept the state testing was passed. Disclosure of the test results is something I would encourage for all growers that wish to put their customers minds at ease. Batch number that can be looked up on their website that shows the actual test results for that batch.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
I look at it like this, we wouldn't be able to feed our population if we didn't use pesticides on our food crops. These chemicals are researched (maybe not enough) to see if the benefits outweigh the potential for problems. Cannabis is not a food crop and therefore isn't a "necessity" that we produce more cannabis through the use of toxic chemicals. In the case of cannabis the only motivator is greed, to make money. Of course with our food crops greed is a factor but we wouldn't be able to produce enough food if we didn't accept some use of pesticides and the like. So I think that in the case of food crops, so long as the chemicals are used in the manner they are intended to be used we have to live with it.

Have I used pesticides? Yes. But I only use them in cases where the plant treated will have at least 100 days before harvest, so this means not even in late veg would I treat. Even then, some pesticides like abamectin for example will stay around, so I pass on such products. Testing is good but a problem we have in the cannabis industry is testers that take bribes to give desired results. This has been curbed to a great degree by state actions.

I think that if a product is approved for use on cannabis and the residual PPM is within "standards" the product should be labeled accordingly. You should know what you are getting. Maybe some people don't care, but the majority would pass on product with 'cides.

I firmly believe that each state should make a list of approved products, Colorado has one, Oklahoma doesn't. Some states just have a list of things you can't test positive for but they give no list of stuff that is 100% ok to use or ok but have a specific PPM limit on residuals.

In the end, we the consumers are responsible for choosing what we put in our bodies. It makes it difficult when there are no labels indicating whats in the package. Here in Colorado we have such labels and I think that will become the standard in other states but just knowing something was used in the cultivation doesn't indicate what residual may still be left, we simply have to accept the state testing was passed. Disclosure of the test results is something I would encourage for all growers that wish to put their customers minds at ease. Batch number that can be looked up on their website that shows the actual test results for that batch.
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I can agree with the bulk of that but what is OK for food crops that can be washed off and are going to be eaten is a lot different than something that can't be washed so easily then will be burned so it's smoke can be inhaled. Combustion causes a lot more and different chemical reactions that have not been studied as to how they will affect the human body. Shall we wait another 300 years like we did with tobacco until we finally say it's bad? Or maybe follow that branch of science that says, 'We don't know for sure so we should be careful.' I vote for being careful.

I'm not a cash-cropper and would rather spend a few hours/week killing bugs by hand to keep their numbers down than spraying anything on my buds after they start building..

Greedy bastards don't care tho.

:peace:
 
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