Lumatek attis or Migro array (and a few other Q's)

[Psychedeliam]

Hello!
I don't think I've been around here since the last time i gave my thumbs a try in the garden and so much has changed!
A big part of the reason i have been inactive with it is the electrical bill, running hps from a small family home was costing a little much to hide and life etc etc but i'm in a good position to give it another try and LED's seem much better. Its something i considered recently and then a friend came to me asking if i could adopt some clones he was given due to kids in the house and he would front the cost of the new light to say thank you so the budget isn't rock bottom.
Its great that the game has changed so much but its a lot to take in and i'm curious for opinions, etc, before i dive in on my own. My previous attempt was set up by an old friend running a 450w hps and a 200w florescent bulb in a 2.5' x 2.5' tent and it was a great crop so i would like to keep a similar amount of light even if it seems its more than recommended for the space.
I've been looking at the Attis and the migro array the last few days as major considerations; at the same price point the attis has the extra 60w's but i have seen around the forums that they use, in my opinion suspect, diodes. It would fit very well in the tent, looks nice, reviews fairy well but obviously the reputation has come from their "premium" lights using the Samsung, Zeus 600 etc. The Array would have that loss of 60w but seems to be a better made light in terms of parts, currently the 240w would have to be angled inwards in the centre to fit my tent but i spoke to the gentleman yesterday who said the 240w 3-bar will have the same output, etc as the 4-bar just more compact(2.2' x 2.2') which sounds like a good choice but a 6-week wait until they are ready for sale.
Are there any other options really worth considering in a similar price bracket, we haven't actually discussed budget but i'm sure he wont be looking to spend more than £300~. Would people consider the 4 bar array a bit to much for 2.5' x 2.5 or recommend not having lights on angles for any reason ? I think i'd get the 3 bar asap if it wasn't for the wait as i'm not sure my friend will want to wait so long to get them under light. Has anyone used the Attis for a while without issue or know anything about the LED's they use ?
Another thing im thinking about is using the LED + the florescent or would it just be unnecessary in the small space i have?

A lot to read so thank you for any help
TL;DR - Been 5 years, updating lights, £300~ budget, 2.5x2.5' tent, which of the two in the title? Or other?

 

[loco41]

Hello!
I don't think I've been around here since the last time i gave my thumbs a try in the garden and so much has changed!
A big part of the reason i have been inactive with it is the electrical bill, running hps from a small family home was costing a little much to hide and life etc etc but i'm in a good position to give it another try and LED's seem much better. Its something i considered recently and then a friend came to me asking if i could adopt some clones he was given due to kids in the house and he would front the cost of the new light to say thank you so the budget isn't rock bottom.
Its great that the game has changed so much but its a lot to take in and i'm curious for opinions, etc, before i dive in on my own. My previous attempt was set up by an old friend running a 450w hps and a 200w florescent bulb in a 2.5' x 2.5' tent and it was a great crop so i would like to keep a similar amount of light even if it seems its more than recommended for the space.
I've been looking at the Attis and the migro array the last few days as major considerations; at the same price point the attis has the extra 60w's but i have seen around the forums that they use, in my opinion suspect, diodes. It would fit very well in the tent, looks nice, reviews fairy well but obviously the reputation has come from their "premium" lights using the Samsung, Zeus 600 etc. The Array would have that loss of 60w but seems to be a better made light in terms of parts, currently the 240w would have to be angled inwards in the centre to fit my tent but i spoke to the gentleman yesterday who said the 240w 3-bar will have the same output, etc as the 4-bar just more compact(2.2' x 2.2') which sounds like a good choice but a 6-week wait until they are ready for sale.
Are there any other options really worth considering in a similar price bracket, we haven't actually discussed budget but i'm sure he wont be looking to spend more than £300~. Would people consider the 4 bar array a bit to much for 2.5' x 2.5 or recommend not having lights on angles for any reason ? I think i'd get the 3 bar asap if it wasn't for the wait as i'm not sure my friend will want to wait so long to get them under light. Has anyone used the Attis for a while without issue or know anything about the LED's they use ?
Another thing im thinking about is using the LED + the florescent or would it just be unnecessary in the small space i have?

A lot to read so thank you for any help
TL;DR - Been 5 years, updating lights, £300~ budget, 2.5x2.5' tent, which of the two in the title? Or other?

I have a similar sized tent, 2.5x2ft, and I got two highlight boards from https://growlightsaustralia.com/ Only got to do a grow and a half with them, but was really happy with the results. You could hit up @Grow Lights Australia and see if they have any suggestions within your budget. Customer service was great too and they literally walked me through the whole process.

I'm no voice of knowledge and only have experience growing weed under these highlight boards and some cob lights, so limited experience to draw from but just something to check into maybe.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I agree with loco, the highlights are a great suggestion if they fit your budget.

Before you choose to go led educate yourself of how you need to control the environment in your tent, the lack of heat in the light means you have to tweak the environment and often add heat, which could drive your bills up.

Also consider CMH as a good compromise between efficiency, spectrum and general ease of growing.

 

[Psychedeliam]

Currently sold out but they do sell the highlights on the site im looking at here in the UK.. @loco41 How come only a grow and a half? Im looking for something a bit more long lasting to be honest and it looks like it would snap if i looked at it wrong (or got water spray anywhere close to it). As its being brought in payment to do the grow, i'd at least like to get one of my own out of it afterwards.
I was considering a small greenhouse tube heater and a cheap thermal reader for keeping and watching temps!

 

[loco41]

Currently sold out but they do sell the highlights on the site im looking at here in the UK.. @loco41 How come only a grow and a half? Im looking for something a bit more long lasting to be honest and it looks like it would snap if i looked at it wrong (or got water spray anywhere close to it). As its being brought in payment to do the grow, i'd at least like to get one of my own out of it afterwards.
I was considering a small greenhouse tube heater and a cheap thermal reader for keeping and watching temps!

Sorry I was vague, the boards still work flawlessly. I just had to chop my last plants in mid flower due to an inspection in my apartment. If I try another grow here, I will for sure use the highlights over the other leds I have.

 

[Horselover fat]

Since you're in europe I'd recommend this https://www.led-tech.de/en/DIY-240W-KIT-2x-ZEUS-308-XT-with-LM301B-in-3500K-54x58cm I don't think you are going to find a better fixture (fancier looking ones for sure). I run four of those boards in 2x4, but at 320w combined. I'm on my third grow with them and I'm happy with mine.

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

Currently sold out but they do sell the highlights on the site im looking at here in the UK.. @loco41 How come only a grow and a half? Im looking for something a bit more long lasting to be honest and it looks like it would snap if i looked at it wrong (or got water spray anywhere close to it). As its being brought in payment to do the grow, i'd at least like to get one of my own out of it afterwards.
I was considering a small greenhouse tube heater and a cheap thermal reader for keeping and watching temps!

LOL! I can asure you these boards will not "snap". They are actually 25% thicker than nearly every other LED Board on the market – 2mm vs 1.6mm. Once bolted to a heatsink, you will not bend them.

We also have an outstanding track record for reliability. No failed boards in over two years. Three boards replaced promptly under warranty due to a single faulty LED. That is out of the 500+ we have sold so far. The reason why DIYLEDUK stocks our boards and not others is due to our reliability and quality control. You are welcome to ask him about that.

Yes, I'm blowing our own company's trumpet. But we manufacture to very strict quality control in Australia and we stake our repuation on delivering a superior LED light with real customer service.

As for not being waterproof, we will be offering a solution to this in the near future. But FWIW, many thousands of growers have been growing with unprotected Quantum Boards and strips for many years now, and very few have had problems – sans those who have tried drenching them in water – because they are usually out of the way and run warm. Almost none of the top LED grow lights are truly "waterproof" anyway, as those that offer water resistance are usually just splash-proof. You won't find many water-resistant HID grow lights either.

 

[Rocket Soul]

LOL! I can asure you these boards will not "snap". They are actually 25% thicker than nearly every other LED Board on the market – 2mm vs 1.6mm. Once bolted to a heatsink, you will not bend them.

We also have an outstanding track record for reliability. No failed boards in over two years. Three boards replaced promptly under warranty due to a single faulty LED. That is out of the 500+ we have sold so far. The reason why DIYLEDUK stocks our boards and not others is due to our reliability and quality control. You are welcome to ask him about that.

Yes, I'm blowing our own company's trumpet. But we manufacture to very strict quality control in Australia and we stake our repuation on delivering a superior LED light with real customer service.

As for not being waterproof, we will be offering a solution to this in the near future. But FWIW, many thousands of growers have been growing with unprotected Quantum Boards and strips for many years now, and very few have had problems – sans those who have tried drenching them in water – because they are usually out of the way and run warm. Almost none of the top LED grow lights are truly "waterproof" anyway, as those that offer water resistance are usually just splash-proof. You won't find many water-resistant HID grow lights either.

Yesterday I was about to suggest waiting while to see what GLA got up their sleeve with regards to this, but its your cat and your bag, not my show
Looking forward to this one...

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

We also have an outstanding track record for reliability. No failed boards in over two years. Three boards replaced promptly under warranty due to a single faulty LED. That is out of the 500+ we have sold so far. The reason why DIYLEDUK stocks our boards and not others is due to our reliability and quality control. You are welcome to ask him about that.

And don't forget to mention original HLG Quantum Boards when it comes to reliability lol, those boards are seriously durable, I know a couple of people who are still running V1 boards without any issues )

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

A lot to read so thank you for any help
TL;DR - Been 5 years, updating lights, £300~ budget, 2.5x2.5' tent, which of the two in the title? Or other?

If that's your budget and you are in the Europe this site linked here has genuine HLG QB 260 kit for £280.

This kit at that price crushes the competition, however that's a lot of light for a 2.5 x 2.5 tent, I suppose you could always dim it, or go for QB 135 kit on their site

 

[Psychedeliam]

No offence meant @Grow Lights Australia, im sure they are great lights! I work with pcb's a lot and can assure you, i cannot really snap one by looking at it I was actually expecting to hear back that they have a splash-proof film but its good to know that a lot of them don't and its not really an issue, lots to learn still.
@Johnnycannaseed1 Thank you for the link, had missed the site some how and had *just* found myself sighing that HLG was all in $ when i saw your reply. I have contacted them regarding when they are likely to have stock. If its soon it might be the way i go forward.
I'm considering asking a friend if he is willing and able to make me some boards if i buy the diodes and provide layout diagrams but wondering if anyone can link me to a/some place(s) to buy lm301 strips in the UK in case he can't, im finding plenty of boards but would like to try and build a 8-prong "star" light, just because really, i haven't seen anyone build or sell one (in my limited time delving)
Other wise i will take a much better look at the aus board, the migro 3-bar array is just to far away i think

 

[Madmungo]

And don't forget to mention original HLG Quantum Boards when it comes to reliability lol, those boards are seriously durable, I know a couple of people who are still running V1 boards without any issues )

Me!

 

[Johnnycannaseed1]

Thank you for the link, had missed the site some how and had *just* found myself sighing that HLG was all in $ when i saw your reply. I have contacted them regarding when they are likely to have stock. If its soon it might be the way i go forward.
I'm considering asking a friend if he is willing and able to make me some boards if i buy the diodes and provide layout diagrams but wondering if anyone can link me to a/some place(s) to buy lm301 strips in the UK in case he can't, im finding plenty of boards but would like to try and build a 8-prong "star" light, just because really, i haven't seen anyone build or sell one (in my limited time delving)
Other wise i will take a much better look at the aus board, the migro 3-bar array is just to far away i think

Those kits come with latest 301H chips which has anti-sulfurization coating, they are resistant to sulfur and splash proof,. I think they are also touch more efficient than 301b... HLG has exclusive access to the most efficient diodes Samsung has to offer, so whatever the deal, those kits will be using the brightest chips per watt on the planet

 

[Rocket Soul]

Those kits come with latest 301H chips which has anti-sulfurization coating, they are resistant to sulfur and splash proof,. I think they are also touch more efficient than 301b... HLG has exclusive access to the most efficient diodes Samsung has to offer, so whatever the deal, those kits will be using the brightest chips per watt on the planet

The h and the b are the exact same chip, all though the h seems to get higher bins. Anti sulfurization: its the same but marketed on the h inorder to appeal to horti purpose. I dont know how many times weve been over this. Its just a matteer of binning and mmarketing

 

[Horselover fat]

The h and the b are the exact same chip, all though the h seems to get higher bins. Anti sulfurization: its the same but marketed on the h inorder to appeal to horti purpose. I dont know how many times weve been over this. Its just a matteer of binning and mmarketing

Oh, btw, I noticed led-tech now has "lm301h one" boards. The old datasheet lists the "one" as lower efficacy, but the specs on led-tech give it slightly higher efficacy than their "b" boards. I wonder if those would be good for our needs.

 

[Grow Lights Australia]

The h and the b are the exact same chip, all though the h seems to get higher bins. Anti sulfurization: its the same but marketed on the h inorder to appeal to horti purpose. I dont know how many times weve been over this. Its just a matteer of binning and mmarketing

Those boards aren't splash-proof either. It is possible to make them splash-proof, but you need to conformal coat them and then seal the connectors with silicon.

Other manufacturers would also dispute that Samsung makes "the brightest chips per watt on the planet", though in reality there's not that much difference between all the top 3030 packages if you are getting top bins.

 

[Psychedeliam]

I think i would be resistant to trying to coat my own board as i'd be concerned about a diy film layer causing issues with the light distribution or work like a very weak diffuser and soften the light.
The opinion ive build so far is that diodes are much like power tools; Samsung isn't necessarily better than others, but you can better rely on the quality and testing conditions they provide. Surely the price difference between b + h is negligible?
The QB 260s are in stock and being sent out next week so thats a serious contender, im going to spend the day deciding between the 3-4 mentioned- migro array, Aus board, BQ and lumatek.

 

[Rocket Soul]

Oh, btw, I noticed led-tech now has "lm301h one" boards. The old datasheet lists the "one" as lower efficacy, but the specs on led-tech give it slightly higher efficacy than their "b" boards. I wonder if those would be good for our needs.

I think led-tech got a sphere or a gonio cause theyve been quoting ppf numbers. Personally i feel that the difference between the different top-top chips is so small, that if i can get a bunch of lm561c for the price of 1 super top bin lm301h id prefer just having twice the diodes.
One thing to remember about the real top bins: its highest flux bin and lowest voltage bin. This means that the next bin down is going to be highest flux bin and mid voltage bin, same total light output just a little higher voltage, but usually runable on the same CV driver. If i have 2 boards with exact same output, running on the exact same 48A driver, only one runs at 48V the other on 50V should i really care that much about that difference? Especially since the difference in price might be quite steep? As long as you can get a diode which runs 2.7-2.8 at nominal i think its a price//numbers game really. Id love to see what would happen if you made a qb diablo running on 60ish watts with one of these cheaper uvpump sunspectrum diodes. You might actually have something with a special value.

 

[Horselover fat]

I think led-tech got a sphere or a gonio cause theyve been quoting ppf numbers. Personally i feel that the difference between the different top-top chips is so small, that if i can get a bunch of lm561c for the price of 1 super top bin lm301h id prefer just having twice the diodes.
One thing to remember about the real top bins: its highest flux bin and lowest voltage bin. This means that the next bin down is going to be highest flux bin and mid voltage bin, same total light output just a little higher voltage, but usually runable on the same CV driver. If i have 2 boards with exact same output, running on the exact same 48A driver, only one runs at 48V the other on 50V should i really care that much about that difference? Especially since the difference in price might be quite steep? As long as you can get a diode which runs 2.7-2.8 at nominal i think its a price//numbers game really. Id love to see what would happen if you made a qb diablo running on 60ish watts with one of these cheaper uvpump sunspectrum diodes. You might actually have something with a special value.

I agree. I pointed out the "one" board because I haven't seen anyone else use those diodes. They are a little lower in blue and higher in green-yellow range.

 

[Rocket Soul]

I agree. I pointed out the "one" board because I haven't seen anyone else use those diodes. They are a little lower in blue and higher in green-yellow range.

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Id love to see some SxS but on instinct id be skeptic to the "One", that much green and that little blue seems counterintuitive for leds which already are tricky to get plants transpiring. Blue opens stomata but green reverses blue light response. Maybe theres something i dont get with this, cause i do seem to remember the One was specifically for horti. Have you seen Lumileds horti white? Its the exact opposite, its basicly a phosphor based blurple, with a little bit of white. Ill see if i can fish it out later.