Roshambizzle
Well-Known Member
Depends how long you plan to veg for 3 gallon pots are perfectly fine if your not pushing your veg time. 5 gallons will cover you for quite awhile.
are 5gal pots big enough for organic grow?
- Thread starter the native
- Start date
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
Lol sorry Charlie Carp fish emulsion. The premium one is organic based. But any fish product will be pretty similar.
You'll eventually need something in there. Your teas etc will likely do, just start off light. Too much microbial activity isn't good either.
Some pebbles, rocks, gravel or similar would work all the same. You just ideally want a couple inches worth at the bottom, so the pot freely drains.
In my honest opinion drainage might be your worries with the current pot, if you didn't add any.
A much more convenient sized pot like a 10L, would be better next time too I think. Before going to your final pot size.
Sprout > 3L > 10L > Final pot. Something like that.
i usually go straight from a 5L to final pot.
Also just be careful. Transplanting from a 5gal isn't very easy.
Gtjoker420
Well-Known Member
I recommend checking how much Light your LED is pushing out around the tent. I had to turn my QB down to 50% as it was frying my plants. What soil and what food are you using?
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
I've had to digest this one a little more @the native
There's a lot of rich material in that mix. And you also inoculated the root ball. From what I can tell the mix doesn't have a lot of aeration, is extremely rich and probably very heavy too.
My own hunch is it needs some plain compost to condition it a little. Plus more aeration and drainage.
Don't inoculate your roots again this time either. I think an overactive / hot mix is likely what's going on.
Although in saying, you're stuck between a rock and hard place, because of the pot size already. It's a difficult transplant and there probably aren't roots all through it yet either. You're going to have to be extra careful, and you'll likely take some roots with it anyway.
Transplanting really is the last straw, after trying everything else. They will need extra time to veg.
One comparison i'd like to make, is many of these supersoil mixes are like those hydroponic nutrient lineups.
There's just so many additives and ingredients you don't really need, and it more often leads to problems than not.
Some decent compost, good aeration, extra drainage and a small amount of rich organic matter, is most often all you need.
Regardless of what you choose to do, I don't personally think it'll be safe to flip in another week. They need some time to recover.
Also, don't pass on the possibility you're just keeping the soil too damp, by watering too often. And if you haven't been running to waste, then i would be. Before even thinking of a transplant.
I also think it's a good idea to consider your light intensity as suggested above.
You seemed fairly convinced from the start it was your mix. So considering what's in it and what I can tell from your pictures, then i'm going to say you are probably guessing right.
the native
Well-Known Member
ok so with all the information its hard to know which direction to go.i put alot of perlite in my SS once it was composted.in the back of my mind i dont really want to transplant them as im new to this and will probaly kill them.i think ive overwatered them tho too and my light intensity is probably too high.i might just keep them in these 18l pots and keep foiler feeding them epsoms satls until they improve some more.if i can do it in these size pots and they stuff out then at least i know.i dont wanna disregard everyones help on this thread but i feel im in a bit of hard spot as either way im still learning.ill keep updates on this thread on how it goes.
the native
Well-Known Member
aussieaceae i thank you for your time mate ,dont think what youve told me was a waste of time im absorbing everything you and the other members have said on here.im just really worried abt transplanting and killing them, ive learnt my lesson abt making the soil too rich,which i belive i have.the roots have not yet come thru the bottom yet, and my pots are heavy az,and havent watered them for four or five days.
the native
Well-Known Member
ive just been keeping the top layer moist with water sprayer
the native
Well-Known Member
but knowing me ill get bored and transplant them and follow what you and skylander have told me lol, mayb im just shit at this.
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
Good plan I think and the most sensible one.
Overwatering wouldn't surprise me at all. Or a drainage problem. Particularly if you haven't been running to waste a bit every watering.
Running to waste using organics is more important than people often think. Not doing It's the fastest way to lock a plant out in rich soil.
It's often the trace minerals that lock it all out growing in soil. Or phosphorus from rich organic matter.
Most often it's mineral buildup at the bottom of the pots.
I'm not suggesting to run 10 - 20% or whatever, that's excessive. Just a decent trickle each time.
Dry them out a bit more between too. Waiting an extra day or two extra might make all the difference.
For next time if you use this same mix, then I think you need to bulk it out with some good compost, or potting mix. Perlite honestly wouldn't be enough. The mix needs more organic matter that's low in NPK value and can simultaneously soak up what comes from your rich additives.
You're probably dealing with a lot of silt.
I do also highly recommend adding drainage to the bottom of your pot next time too. It'll help flush out any excess minerals to your waste.
If the top of your pots are drying out too fast, add an inch or two of mulch.
I highly recommend a mulch regardless.
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Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
That'd do it bro!
Give it some plain water and run some good waste.
Only a sprayer this whole time!?
the native
Well-Known Member
nah i have been watering(aswell as compost tea) but when i was getting the droppyness i just started to spray it on the top layer. abt a week or 2 ago i added some more compost on top with dolomite lime and ewc and have just been sprying top layer to keep it moist.and spraying the undersides with epsoms salts and kelp twice a week,then spray plain water inbetween to wash off.i cant add mulch nw bcuz my branches and leaves are to close to the base unless i strip all the bottom leaves,but if i do that now when im trying correct my deficiencies it might stress them too much.
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
Lol, well if you screw it up, just remember I warned you not to.
Nah nonsense. You'll learn a lot from organics. Mistakes and experimenting are a good thing.
Some of us learn the hard way. Couldn't tell you how many times i've fucked something right up growing in soil. By adding too much of something, or not enough of something, or trying something new.
There is always so much to experiment with.
But man, if cash cropping is what you want to do and you want results right away, then it's really difficult to beat DTW hydroponics.
It's measured, it's simple, consistent and good yield. Very forgiving once you've got the basics down.
Hobby-wise and learning though, organics is where it's at.
the native
Well-Known Member
organics is the way i wanna go.i like your attitude toward this mate and like you said live and learn. im currentley not smoking anyways so im in no rush i wanted some for xmas but that boat has sailed lol.so i just ride this out with your guys guidance and see what happens. ill get all the stuff bigger pots etc for next time and see what happens.i wanna give no till a go next tim
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
If you're spraying the foliage and you've seen improvement, then i'd keep at it.
I would personally be hesitant about spraying your top soil. Don't think it's really necessary.
Plain water should be all you need just for now.
Just asking out of curiosity. Was there something you remember doing which coincided with the decline, like a compost tea or amendment?
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
And it's generally the greenest, most sustainable way. Better for the environment and cheaper too.
No till is great fun! Love it outdoors!
Less weeding, less digging, better soil and less work.
the native
Well-Known Member
not that i can recall,they just started to taco and fade from green to yellow.when i transplanted them into my SS.then i tried using seawwed and fish emulsion to correct and they didnt seem to cahnge so i then tried compost tea and that kida didnt work either.then i went onto using epsoms salts with dry kelp mixed with plain water and foiler feed them they are getting slightly better but not perfect yet.i been doing no till in my vege garden this year but obviousley takes a few seasons to get it pumping,but in saying that no weeds and the veges have been looking stellar.
the native
Well-Known Member
so some pics from today.some gelato33 clones for outddor season.and the drivers of my qb.my uncle is a sparky and seems to think that these are more powerful than advertised 400w.he says 480w or even 500w
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Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
The more and more I think about it, the more I think your soil was too hot from the start. After reading this post, it just makes sense.
I'm pretty confident that next indoor grow, if you used the same mix / recipe, but bulked it out with some of that compost, you'll have a much easier time.
Man good luck outdoors this year! By the sounds of your vegetable garden you've got it down already.
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Gtjoker420
Well-Known Member
With how established the roots should be from the size of the plant. The soil shouldn't be too hot. I would quit spraying the leaves all together. Water with RO water phd to 6.5. You may not have a strong enough microbial life to buffer the ph. Turn your LED down to like 20%. Give them a few days to get comfy again. Everyone wants to set their lights to 100% thinking more light means more growth, but thats not how it works. Too much light can cause stress and growth stunts in the plant.
Aussieaceae
Well-Known Member
I agree with what you're saying and think it's a good plan moving forward. It would be fantastic if light intensity was indeed the answer.
But if it isn't...
What I'm suggesting is for the next grow. It's just too much coincidence if trouble started immediately after the transplant to SS, to completely write the mix off.
"my ss(5weeks of composting it)had seabird guano,dolomite lime,basalt,rock phosphatet,blood meal,kelp meal,neem cake,langbenite,boneflour,epsoms salt.the root balls were dusted with tricoderma powder on transplant.
26c 56humidity."
This mix is honestly not ideal, if there wasn't any filler like compost or potting mix. And if there was, then it likely could do with more. It needs more structure. Perlite alone is not adequate in my honest opinion. There's nothing to sopp everything up, or provide healthy soil structure.
FWIW, I haven't myself once seen a SS recipe yet that didn't have compost, potting mix, or promix / peat in it either.
And regardless, that mix sounds really hot just by reading the ingredients.
Also was 5 weeks composting before planting enough? I'm really not too sure it was.
P.S. I never foliage feed either. But if someone's seeing improvement on doing so, who am I to stop them.
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