3 weeks old - Tiny seedling - Continue or Restart?

parrajara

Member
New to the forum, but long time lerker. Found a ton of helpful information here, so I thought I would reach out for my specific situation.

My ladies are 3 weeks old and they are tiny for their size... They were doing fine and until they suddenly started to drastically slow down their development. I believe it was due to overwatering, but I also think that perhaps the soil does not have enough perlite to promote oxygen flow to the roots.

My one plant (Marijuana) has been sick for a couple of few days. It was starting to droop 3 days ago, so I watered it at night (only a tiny bit to see how it would react), but I didn't water the other plant to see the differences between them. Next morning MJ looked a bit better and Cannabitch looked more droopy. So I figured, I guess they do need water... So I go ahead and water them properly, and now it's been two days. Cannabitch (which received less water than MJ) is doing pretty good, although still growing very slow. However, MJ still has droopy leaves, and the soil feels dry but I don't want to water again yet since it's only been 2 days, and since Cannabitch (which received less water and is more developed) is still standing up fine. Seems like MJ is drowning in water or from lack of oxygen? Well, they both are since they are growing so slow, but one more than the other?

They both have had the clawing tips for about 3 days as well, and I've seen the leaves from Cannabitch droop and perk up again, but never the tip. The tip has remained like that for days, which according to my research can be nitrogen toxicity, overwatering or lack of oxygen?

Should I try to save these plants? I was considering transplanting them into smaller container (solo cups), and adding a lot more perlite to my medium. Here is some information that perhaps will help you help me.

Strain: Photoperiod Feminized Green Crack Kush (Sativa)
About: I started germination around Nov 19. The plant was looking healthy (aside from a bit of yellowing leaves) up until 5 days ago.

Environment:
  • There are two fans in there, they don't oscillate so I rotate the intensity they hit the plant at, and the angle throughout the days. I try to never make it direct contact, rather wind current bouncing off the tent walls (one fan is standard size and quite powerful)
  • Growing in a 2x4x6 tent using a 150CFM fan, which I calculated and it's enough for my space
  • Using 2 LED lamps (active heating, no heatsink) that are 400 actual Watts (200 each)
  • I have a humidifier which manages to maintain humidity around 50%RH, although I have it set to 60.
  • The temperature ranges between 75-85F on a daily basis with lights on, and I suspect around 75F with lights off (I close the windows to let my condo warm up when lights are off)
Growing Medium & Taking Care:
  • Growing 2 plants in small (maybe 1 gallon or less) square plastic pots with holes in the bottom
  • The pots have a plastic dish drying "mat" underneath to elevate them and provide more circulation
  • I started my grow with about 30% perlite 70% happy frog
  • Watering with spray mist around the perimeter - PH and mL not calculated (oops). However, the water in my house only has 17ppm.
  • Lights 18hrs/Dark 6hrs
I can provide more information if you all require it.

What are your suggestions? Start over or continue nursing these plants?
 

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Wizzlebiz

Well-Known Member
Yea so Il start with I wouldn't start over unless they are autoflower.

Starting over probably won't help you until you know whats wrong.

What kind of leds are we talking about?

Have you added nutes?

Funny enough they look healthy just behind schedule.
 

parrajara

Member
Yea so Il start with I wouldn't start over unless they are autoflower.

Starting over probably won't help you until you know whats wrong.

What kind of leds are we talking about?

Have you added nutes?

Funny enough they look healthy just behind schedule.
Yeah, they do look relatively healthy but the growth is severely stunned. This is exactly why I got photoperiods, much more forgiving lol.

I am using two of these lights. They are no Mars Hydro or anything, but they shouldn't be the issue. I have friends growing with Chinese lights too, no problem.

I haven't added any nutes because to my understanding the seedlings feed themselves for the first 2 weeks, and then the happy frog has enough nutrients for a month. My initial plan was to transplant to Fox Farm Ocean Forest after about 4-6 weeks, but seeing how behind they are, that may have to wait.

I'm considering watering them tonight, as it has been almost 3 days and the soil is pretty dry... but Cannabitch isn't droopy yet - so I don't know if it's a good idea. I'm not sure why the tips are curled, they've been like that for days.

I am also considering transplanting them to smaller (solo) cups, and wondering what people think about adding a tiny bit of microbes (rhizosphere and mycorrhizal) to promote root growth?
 

Rurumo

Well-Known Member
fill up a container of the exact same size with the exact same media. Then you can compare the dry weight to the wet weight to figure out if you're overwatering. If you have a scale you can be super precise about it.
 

Wizzlebiz

Well-Known Member
Yeah, they do look relatively healthy but the growth is severely stunned. This is exactly why I got photoperiods, much more forgiving lol.

I am using two of these lights. They are no Mars Hydro or anything, but they shouldn't be the issue. I have friends growing with Chinese lights too, no problem.

I haven't added any nutes because to my understanding the seedlings feed themselves for the first 2 weeks, and then the happy frog has enough nutrients for a month. My initial plan was to transplant to Fox Farm Ocean Forest after about 4-6 weeks, but seeing how behind they are, that may have to wait.

I'm considering watering them tonight, as it has been almost 3 days and the soil is pretty dry... but Cannabitch isn't droopy yet - so I don't know if it's a good idea. I'm not sure why the tips are curled, they've been like that for days.

I am also considering transplanting them to smaller (solo) cups, and wondering what people think about adding a tiny bit of microbes (rhizosphere and mycorrhizal) to promote root growth?
You dont have to nor should wait for droopy before watering. That is unnecessary stress for them.

Worst case scenario get a cheap moisture meter at ace hardware. The pH meter on them is crap but the moisture meter is guagable to know when to water.

They are about $10
 

parrajara

Member
fill up a container of the exact same size with the exact same media. Then you can compare the dry weight to the wet weight to figure out if you're overwatering. If you have a scale you can be super precise about it.
I do have a scale, I'll start weighing before/after watering. I'm going to let my soil dry out to start doing that, the soil is pretty dry right now. I don't have any more containers the same size.

You dont have to nor should wait for droopy before watering. That is unnecessary stress for them.

Worst case scenario get a cheap moisture meter at ace hardware. The pH meter on them is crap but the moisture meter is guagable to know when to water.

They are about $10
I live in Canada, but I'm sure those are just as easily attainable here. I will take a look for the moisture meters. I have a pH pen, which admittedly I haven't been using, but plan on starting to use.

Any ideas on why the tips look the way they do? curling down
 

parrajara

Member
Thats the difference between watering, so underwatering was clearly m my main issue. Would that also be the same thing that caused the bottom leaves to turn yellow?

Both my plants look much better, so I hope they start growing at a more normal rate now.

Only thing I can't seem to fix are the claw tips on my Cannabitch one, it hasn't gotten worse but it also hasn't gotten better for about 5 days
 

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Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
I'd imagine they would have stretched more if that were the case.
I agree you beat me to it. They aren’t stretching for light

OP mine came through soil on 11/26 and I have 6 nodes already on a very cheap 200w actual draw LED

Have you done anything like over water or anything?
 

parrajara

Member
IMO, the main reason they remained small is from having the lights 29" from the plant.
I don't think you're right, but I don't think you're wrong either haha. I set them at the mid range for the manufacturer suggested height. I am using LEDs, not CFL or HPS.
Seedling height was suggested 36-47" and vegetation stage 18-24". I'm not sure where mine sits, but I guess it's closer to vegetation? I'll be lowering my lights to 24" today.

@Wattzzup I wasn't sure what I had done wrong, but now I figure it out. It was a mixture of underwatering and the way I was watering it. Finally got them back on a wet/dry cycle, so I am hoping to see some improvements in the roots and subsequently in the growth of my plant.
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
I agree you beat me to it. They aren’t stretching for light

OP mine came through soil on 11/26 and I have 6 nodes already on a very cheap 200w actual draw LED

Have you done anything like over water or anything?
Surely you did not have your lights 29" from the plant and your light I assume is not the same as his so I don't see that as a good comparison.

I can say that with low light I have grown many cannabis plants that look like that without stretching.
Extreme stretching is more common for a seedling in the early stages while it is hardening off. Maybe it had enough light when it was in the seedling stage not to stretch but was never properly adjusted for the veg stage.
I usually make that adjustment from seedling stage to veg stage over about a 5 day period with MH.
A 600w MH can start 36" away from a seedling but needs to be brought to 18-24" after the initial seedling stage, 5-7 days after the seedling peeks from the soil. A 600w MH would be to far from the plant in veg at 29" for aggressive growth. Without pissing off the LED grow Gods I can't Imagine a couple of 200w LED lights delivering enough light for proper growth from 29".

Haven't heard back from @hotrodharley since he asked the light distance.
I'll double down and stick with the issue being the light was to far away until an LED Guru tells me I'm wrong.

Happy Growing!
 

parrajara

Member
Surely you did not have your lights 29" from the plant and your light I assume is not the same as his so I don't see that as a good comparison.

I can say that with low light I have grown many cannabis plants that look like that without stretching.
Extreme stretching is more common for a seedling in the early stages while it is hardening off. Maybe it had enough light when it was in the seedling stage not to stretch but was never properly adjusted for the veg stage.
I usually make that adjustment from seedling stage to veg stage over about a 5 day period with MH.
A 600w MH can start 36" away from a seedling but needs to be brought to 18-24" after the initial seedling stage, 5-7 days after the seedling peeks from the soil. A 600w MH would be to far from the plant in veg at 29" for aggressive growth. Without pissing off the LED grow Gods I can't Imagine a couple of 200w LED lights delivering enough light for proper growth from 29".

Haven't heard back from @hotrodharley since he asked the light distance.
I'll double down and stick with the issue being the light was to far away until an LED Guru tells me I'm wrong.

Happy Growing!
I always appreciate ALL input, opinions and suggestions. I was definitely late to lowering the lights, and I'm sure that played a factor. I do believe the major contributor to my slow growth was the improper watering, but the lighting definitely did not help now. I've just lowered them to 24" to let the ladies adjust to the new intensity (not sure this even makes sense, but whatever), and I will lower the light by one inch every day until it gets to 18". Let's see how that plays out.

Any other tips are always welcomed.
 

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Surely you did not have your lights 29" from the plant and your light I assume is not the same as his so I don't see that as a good comparison.

I can say that with low light I have grown many cannabis plants that look like that without stretching.
Extreme stretching is more common for a seedling in the early stages while it is hardening off. Maybe it had enough light when it was in the seedling stage not to stretch but was never properly adjusted for the veg stage.
I usually make that adjustment from seedling stage to veg stage over about a 5 day period with MH.
A 600w MH can start 36" away from a seedling but needs to be brought to 18-24" after the initial seedling stage, 5-7 days after the seedling peeks from the soil. A 600w MH would be to far from the plant in veg at 29" for aggressive growth. Without pissing off the LED grow Gods I can't Imagine a couple of 200w LED lights delivering enough light for proper growth from 29".

Haven't heard back from @hotrodharley since he asked the light distance.
I'll double down and stick with the issue being the light was to far away until an LED Guru tells me I'm wrong.

Happy Growing!
Ok
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
I always appreciate ALL input, opinions and suggestions. I was definitely late to lowering the lights, and I'm sure that played a factor. I do believe the major contributor to my slow growth was the improper watering, but the lighting definitely did not help now. I've just lowered them to 24" to let the ladies adjust to the new intensity (not sure this even makes sense, but whatever), and I will lower the light by one inch every day until it gets to 18". Let's see how that plays out.

Any other tips are always welcomed.
Best of Luck!
Could be that plant is a genetic runt.

If you stick around RIU we can talk watering someday. I've experimented with watering in soil in more ways than most growers.
I've never seen someone keep a plant small and fairly healthy as yours is by improper watering when lighting was sufficient.

I'll move on. Wattzzup gave me a Ha Ha so I probably hurt his feelings. Maybe someone we both would listen to, @bk78 will stop by and set me straight if I'm wrong about my comments about lighting or watering.
 

bk78

Well-Known Member
Best of Luck!
Could be that plant is a genetic runt.

If you stick around RIU we can talk watering someday. I've experimented with watering in soil in more ways than most growers.
I've never seen someone keep a plant small and fairly healthy as yours is by improper watering when lighting was sufficient.

I'll move on. Wattzzup gave me a Ha Ha so I probably hurt his feelings. Maybe someone we both would listen to, @bk78 will stop by and set me straight if I'm wrong about my comments about lighting or watering.
I grow in coco for this exact reason. I like rapid growth, not turtle speed. As for @Wattzzup, don’t feed the trolls :p
 
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