What are the best diodes on the market right now? Anything on the horizon?

[tilopa]

I'm looking at building a veg strip light that will cover a 4x4 area. Here are the options I'm aware of, if anyone has advice on other options please let me know.

Bridgelux EB Gen3 Thrive - more expensive and less efficient than Reg Gen3 but fuller light spectrum - CRI 98.
Bridgelux EB Gen3 CRI90 - Good bang for the buck. Good spectrum at 164 lm/w.
Bridgelux EB Gen3 High Output - I don't really understand the point of these. Are these made with better internal heat management? Or are they just bigger diodes that require higher current. If so then this is not an advantage for me as I would rather just use more diodes.

Samsung - Does Samsung have any new diodes in the works?
LM301B - These are higher priced than the EB for only a small gain in efficiency.
LM301H - These strips are very pricey. Are they worth it?

I don't know much about Cree strips. Where can I buy just the strips alone?

Anything else available?

 

[Rocket Soul]

The cree j-series 2835 HE might be added to that list But i dont know if you can get cree branded strips with them.

 

[dbz]

I have seen a lot about Nichia.

 

[ilovereggae]

I'm looking at building a veg strip light that will cover a 4x4 area. Here are the options I'm aware of, if anyone has advice on other options please let me know.

Bridgelux EB Gen3 Thrive - more expensive and less efficient than Reg Gen3 but fuller light spectrum - CRI 98.
Bridgelux EB Gen3 CRI90 - Good bang for the buck. Good spectrum at 164 lm/w.
Bridgelux EB Gen3 High Output - I don't really understand the point of these. Are these made with better internal heat management? Or are they just bigger diodes that require higher current. If so then this is not an advantage for me as I would rather just use more diodes.

Samsung - Does Samsung have any new diodes in the works?
LM301B - These are higher priced than the EB for only a small gain in efficiency.
LM301H - These strips are very pricey. Are they worth it?

I don't know much about Cree strips. Where can I buy just the strips alone?

Anything else available?

once I get thru holiday bills I'm gonna order some of the vesta thrive double row tuneable. if you order 10 at a time they are only $16 on digikey. lower voltage than the older Vestas and 1.2a nominal. they have 150 in stock now. leave me 20 pls

 

[tilopa]

The cree j-series 2835 HE might be added to that list But i dont know if you can get cree branded strips with them.

And I assume it is not so easy to attach these to a PCB?

I have seen a lot about Nichia.

Do you know if they make strips, and where I could find them?

 

[tilopa]

once I get thru holiday bills I'm gonna order some of the vesta thrive double row tuneable. if you order 10 at a time they are only $16 on digikey. lower voltage than the older Vestas and 1.2a nominal. they have 150 in stock now. leave me 20 pls

Lol, no problem, I wouldn't buy more than 20 myself.

But, I'm wondering about the difference between the EB gen 3 thrive and the vesta thrive. What does tunable mean? They are both CRI98, so should have the same spectrum, but the EB's are about half the price, and they are only about 30% less lumens. So it seams like the EB is a better deal, unless I'm missing something?

 

[ilovereggae]

Lol, no problem, I wouldn't buy more than 20 myself.

But, I'm wondering about the difference between the EB gen 3 thrive and the vesta thrive. What does tunable mean? They are both CRI98, so should have the same spectrum, but the EB's are about half the price, and they are only about 30% less lumens. So it seams like the EB is a better deal, unless I'm missing something?

the vestas have 2 rows of diodes in different color temps. so you are getting double the diodes, as well as the ability to run either straight 2700K, straight 5000K, or run both at half the current, and wind up with a 3700K light. you can use either wagos or some rocker switches and make it so that you have a light that has a lot of flexibility w 3 different 'modes'. or you could run each row on a seperate dimmable driver and have full control over your spectrum. i am using the older Vestas now in veg and they are honestly the best value on the market all things considered. I havent flowered under them yet but planning to soon. I dont have all the posts handy but some ppl smarter that me showed how they are the most cost effective option when calculating $ per lumen and also when considering even the first gens are 90CRI the lm/w is not an apples to apples comparison to lm301b/h.

im in the process of switching up my grow a bit and want to have tuneable fixtures in every tent so that I can scrog in place, and then switch to flower under the same fixture. as well if I decide to use a space for pure veg or flower I can easily adjust and am not limited by my current veg cab size. now my current veg cab can just hold a few moms and grow some other veggies. At least that is the plan.

i went for last gen QBs when I bought those, and got all V1 boards for flower. i feel like this time its worth investing a bit and get the latest gen Vesta Thrives. im not sure if the 98CRI is going to be overkill but i figure someones gotta see what they can do and the price is reasonable.

 

[welight]

Cree 2835 HE in Hi Fidelity are 98 CRI right out of the box, the thrive chips I got from BLX unfortunantly were not
below is the 4k chip results

Parameter	Value
CCT	4217 K
Duv	-0.0000
CRI (Ra)(R1~R	98
CRI (Re) (R1-R15)	96
CQS	96
TLCI(Qa)	99
GAI	84
TM-30-18 Rf	94
TM-30-18 Rg	101
Illuminance	1,781 lux

 

[PJ Diaz]

HLG is working with Samsung on a new horticulture specific diode. I think there are 4 different color temps they are planning to do side-by-side grows with to find the best spectrum.

 

[tilopa]

I'm not sure what you mean by "right out of the box" but the cree looks very similar to the thrive:

https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS133%20Bridgelux%20EB%20Series%20Thrive%20Data%20Sheet%20081320%20Rev%20A.pdf

 

[welight]

I'm not sure what you mean by "right out of the box" but the cree looks very similar to the thrive:

https://www.bridgelux.com/sites/default/files/resource_media/DS133%20Bridgelux%20EB%20Series%20Thrive%20Data%20Sheet%20081320%20Rev%20A.pdf

When I tested the Thrive Chips, they at best came in at 93-95 CRI in both 4000k and 2700k, Im currently trying to return these to bridgelux as they fail specifications. Same equipment I have tested Nichia Optisolis, Lumileds min 95 and Cree HI FID, and they all tested 97 and 98 CRI 'straight off the reel'. I had to manipulate current drive on thrive to hit even 93 CRI. All other chips have better efficacy than Thrive but the other more concerning issue I have with the Thrive is it is MAX 80MA drive current, given most efficacy is rated at 65ma, this is only 15ma above that before you top out (Cree HI FID is 240ma max) , this does not make it a player in my world and I am a distributor for Bridgelux and have no issue with any other BLX product, but this one is surprising
Cheers
Mark

 

[loco41]

When I tested the Thrive Chips, they at best came in at 93-95 CRI in both 4000k and 2700k, Im currently trying to return these to bridgelux as they fail specifications. Same equipment I have tested Nichia Optisolis, Lumileds min 95 and Cree HI FID, and they all tested 97 and 98 CRI 'straight off the reel'. I had to manipulate current drive on thrive to hit even 93 CRI. All other chips have better efficacy than Thrive but the other more concerning issue I have with the Thrive is it is MAX 80MA drive current, given most efficacy is rated at 65ma, this is only 15ma above that before you top out (Cree HI FID is 240ma max) , this does not make it a player in my world and I am a distributor for Bridgelux and have no issue with any other BLX product, but this one is surprising
Cheers
Mark

Any chance you could post a graph of the spectrum from your testing on the bridgelux thrive didoes?

 

[tilopa]

When I tested the Thrive Chips, they at best came in at 93-95 CRI in both 4000k and 2700k, Im currently trying to return these to bridgelux as they fail specifications. Same equipment I have tested Nichia Optisolis, Lumileds min 95 and Cree HI FID, and they all tested 97 and 98 CRI 'straight off the reel'. I had to manipulate current drive on thrive to hit even 93 CRI. All other chips have better efficacy than Thrive but the other more concerning issue I have with the Thrive is it is MAX 80MA drive current, given most efficacy is rated at 65ma, this is only 15ma above that before you top out (Cree HI FID is 240ma max) , this does not make it a player in my world and I am a distributor for Bridgelux and have no issue with any other BLX product, but this one is surprising
Cheers
Mark

Do you know who sells the cree 2835 HE strips and Nichia Optisolis strips? Thanks.

 

[ilovereggae]

When I tested the Thrive Chips, they at best came in at 93-95 CRI in both 4000k and 2700k, Im currently trying to return these to bridgelux as they fail specifications. Same equipment I have tested Nichia Optisolis, Lumileds min 95 and Cree HI FID, and they all tested 97 and 98 CRI 'straight off the reel'. I had to manipulate current drive on thrive to hit even 93 CRI. All other chips have better efficacy than Thrive but the other more concerning issue I have with the Thrive is it is MAX 80MA drive current, given most efficacy is rated at 65ma, this is only 15ma above that before you top out (Cree HI FID is 240ma max) , this does not make it a player in my world and I am a distributor for Bridgelux and have no issue with any other BLX product, but this one is surprising
Cheers
Mark

thank you for this explanation. im curious about one thing regarding current you mentioned. the double row Vesta thrives are 1200ma nominal, and 2400ma max. this seems to be the way bridgelux strips have worked in past, nominal/test is half of max. is it just bc of the form factor of the larger PCB? or do you think they are fudging these numbers too?

did you ever happen to run to run these tests on the original double row Vestas? do you think the new Vesta Thrives are a significant efficiency increase due to the higher CRI or would I be better off sticking with the original Vestas? fwiw I grow relatively short plants and will be testing these out in a 2 shelf rack style grow.

also, I think they are probably out of my price range but does Cutter have any tuneable strips like this using any of those other high CRI diodes? Fwiw I have the HLG QB288 v1 w lumiled 2835 he diodes and I like those a lot.

 

[welight]

thank you for this explanation. im curious about one thing regarding current you mentioned. the double row Vesta thrives are 1200ma nominal, and 2400ma max. this seems to be the way bridgelux strips have worked in past, nominal/test is half of max. is it just bc of the form factor of the larger PCB? or do you think they are fudging these numbers too?

did you ever happen to run to run these tests on the original double row Vestas? do you think the new Vesta Thrives are a significant efficiency increase due to the higher CRI or would I be better off sticking with the original Vestas? fwiw I grow relatively short plants and will be testing these out in a 2 shelf rack style grow.

also, I think they are probably out of my price range but does Cutter have any tuneable strips like this using any of those other high CRI diodes? Fwiw I have the HLG QB288 v1 w lumiled 2835 he diodes and I like those a lot.

The on board design/structure of the diode layout will play into the max currents on strips

All leds that offer 95-98 type CRI numbers will be LOWER efficacy than general white chips, the energy required to convert phosphors is more difficult when the % of red increases as in HI CRI. in 2021, Nichia will release 3030 chips under license to GE that use the TRI GAIN phopshor tech. this phosphor is the only one I know that can produce 90CRI at the same eff as 80 CRI

Yes we have our SSK-3560BR-V2 boards that offer the 98 CRI options

 

[welight]

Do you know who sells the cree 2835 HE strips and Nichia Optisolis strips? Thanks.

yes me
Cheers
Mark

 

[welight]

Any chance you could post a graph of the spectrum from your testing on the bridgelux thrive didoes?

Sure can. No real complaint about the spectrum

 

[ilovereggae]

The on board design/structure of the diode layout will play into the max currents on strips

All leds that offer 95-98 type CRI numbers will be LOWER efficacy than general white chips, the energy required to convert phosphors is more difficult when the % of red increases as in HI CRI. in 2021, Nichia will release 3030 chips under license to GE that use the TRI GAIN phopshor tech. this phosphor is the only one I know that can produce 90CRI at the same eff as 80 CRI

Yes we have our SSK-3560BR-V2 boards that offer the 98 CRI options

thank you. your strips look amazing. when I have the funds to play with I would love to build a top end fixture using your products.

I do understand the basics of efficiency being less but higher CRI having other benefits. I am less concerned about efficiency atm than I am overall spectrum. Thats what attracted me to the Thrives.

To make my question a bit simpler. Do the original Vestas test at 90 CRI reliably and if the Vesta Thrives are only hitting 93 CRI on average do you think its worth spending more for the newer model? the better spectrum is nice but the only other benefit of the Thrive version is higher current/lower voltage which seems easier to match drivers to. but I would still probably run them around 20W per strip either way.

 

[tilopa]

Sure can. No real complaint about the spectrum
View attachment 4774477
View attachment 4774478

The graph you show from your test of the Thrive is very different from the graph Bridelux shows in their datasheet. I understand that companies always what to put their best foot forward so-to-speak, and some of them outright lie. Do you have an idea about why their graph would be so different from yours?
In looking closer at the data sheet they say the test was at nominal current for T = 65C. That seems pretty hot, was your test done at a lower current?

 

[welight]

The graph you show from your test of the Thrive is very different from the graph Bridelux shows in their datasheet. I understand that companies always what to put their best foot forward so-to-speak, and some of them outright lie. Do you have an idea about why their graph would be so different from yours?
In looking closer at the data sheet they say the test was at nominal current for T = 65C. That seems pretty hot, was your test done at a lower current?

To be honest, I am hoping the leds sent to me from Bridgelux are just the wrong leds, a mistake was made. I can only provide data as I have it, the test was done on just the thrive 2835 chips and that was the spectral and CRI result. I am hoping that BLX send me correct leds and that when tested will match up with what they publish, but I cant provide that until I get replacement chips to test.
I ran the chips from 10ma up to 80ma in various steps, mainly to try and hit the correct CRI. I agree for a chip with a max drive of 80ma, 65C seems kinda high, and typically when you run at peak thermals you dont always get optimum led performance
Cheers
Mark