LED heat VS HPS heat?

[19-Sean-86]

I see a lot of bollocks on this thread, a watt is a watt and a watt is approximately 3.4 BTU. 250w 400w 600w 1000w wether it be CFL HPS or led a watt is a watt which is approximately 3.4 BTU. The difference is in the way the lights deal with the heat. LEDs have fans or heat sinks HPS doesn't. I've actually seen videos of same wattage LEDs producing more heat in a sealed tent than a HPS.

 

[2cent]

I see a lot of bollocks on this thread, a watt is a watt and a watt is approximately 3.4 BTU. 250w 400w 600w 1000w wether it be CFL HPS or led a watt is a watt which is approximately 3.4 BTU. The difference is in the way the lights deal with the heat. LEDs have fans or heat sinks HPS doesn't. I've actually seen videos of same wattage LEDs producing more heat in a sealed tent than a HPS.

Heatsink or not thats how thow made.
I use 1200 watts of led actual draw and its 20c perm. My hps 2x600 is in cooltubes and 23c.

The light gives off different heats hps has alot of infrared thats not utilised other than heat.
Led has less of them.

Heatsink led vs cooltube hps. Trust ur baby can lick my leds ur hand wont last a minuite on my cooltube
Nevermund without cooltube.

Also id never run hps fanless infact id have double the size fan needed in my led room.

Then agrue the fact plants wana be warmwr jn led by 3 degrees.. due to less infra red making less leaf surface temps stress meaning more heat or light can be added.

If there all the same theyd all yield the same.

I also have 200w led and a 150wat led thst kicks more heat out on the same heatsink diy due to spectrum selected each arw made from 100w chips at 50%

 

[19-Sean-86]

Heatsink or not thats how thow made.
I use 1200 watts of led actual draw and its 20c perm. My hps 2x600 is in cooltubes and 23c.

The light gives off different heats hps has alot of infrared thats not utilised other than heat.
Led has less of them.

Heatsink led vs cooltube hps. Trust ur baby can lick my leds ur hand wont last a minuite on my cooltube
Nevermund without cooltube.

Also id never run hps fanless infact id have double the size fan needed in my led room.

Then agrue the fact plants wana be warmwr jn led by 3 degrees.. due to less infra red making less leaf surface temps stress meaning more heat or light can be added.

If there all the same theyd all yield the same.

I also have 200w led and a 150wat led thst kicks more heat out on the same heatsink diy due to spectrum selected each arw made from 100w chips at 50%

The difference in heats is convectional and radiant. The lights produce and deal with heat differently, I watched a migro video on YouTube a few days back it was a 600w HPS in sealed tent not being cooled it topped out at 37c this was Vs a 430w migro led again sealed tent it topped out at 34c. I bet my life that if that led was 600w it would of at least matched the hps but I'm betting it would of been a bit hotter. The difference was though that led heat pretty much sat at top of the tent where as the hps heat spread around but mostly downwards. I've also seen other videos of same wattage LEDs producing more heat than hps. I've also seen then produce less it's swings and roundabouts. You can't definitively say LEDs produce less heat because it's far from true, Look on YouTube for proof.

 

[19-Sean-86]

The difference in heats is convectional and radiant. The lights produce and deal with heat differently, I watched a migro video on YouTube a few days back it was a 600w HPS in sealed tent not being cooled it topped out at 37c this was Vs a 430w migro led again sealed tent it topped out at 34c. I bet my life that if that led was 600w it would of at least matched the hps but I'm betting it would of been a bit hotter. The difference was though that led heat pretty much sat at top of the tent where as the hps heat spread around but mostly downwards. I've also seen other videos of same wattage LEDs producing more heat than hps. I've also seen then produce less it's swings and roundabouts. You can't definitively say LEDs produce less heat because it's far from true, Look on YouTube for proof.

 

[19-Sean-86]

View attachment 4815921

 

[bernie344]

Do you own any Led lights?

 

[Partyslayer1]

I was wondering who has used hps and led and know what the differences are with heat management. What have your experiences been?

I used to run a blurple 300w LED. Low heat, low results. Currently running 1000w HPS Sungro. Very pricy (for a hobbyist). I have it aircooled in my room. Depends where you live, too. Its cooler where I am (PNW USA) this time of year. I don't have to contend with environmental heat.

Where are you growing? How good is your exhaust? What are your yield expectations?

 

[Corso312]

Everybody who says the heat produced is the same hasn't used Leds. I know " in theory" that doesnt make sense but it is just a real world fact. Leds don't heat up a room like sodium lamps at the same wattage. I know it doesn't make science sense but its true.

 

[19-Sean-86]

Do you own any Led lights?

Yep I own led and hps, I use to use hps changed to led now I'm using both. People use LEDs wrong, LEDs have more light output than hps which is the exact reason a 300w led matches 600w hps etc. People seem to replace 600w hps with 600w led it's laughable and not how it's supposed to be. What's the point swapping 600w for 600w? Where's the electricity saving that everyone bangs on about? Led uses less watts to match hps light output so to replace with the same watts is just wrong and plain stupid.

 

[bernie344]

Yep I own led and hps, I use to use hps changed to led now I'm using both. People use LEDs wrong, LEDs have more light output than hps which is the exact reason a 300w led matches 600w hps etc. People seem to replace 600w hps with 600w led it's laughable and not how it's supposed to be. What's the point swapping 600w for 600w? Where's the electricity saving that everyone bangs on about? Led uses less watts to match hps light output so to replace with the same watts is just wrong and plain stupid.

I get that < I replaced my 2 600hps with 2 480QB`s

 

[19-Sean-86]

I get that < I replaced my 2 600hps with 2 480QB`s

And that's exactly what your suppose to do. When you hear LEDs is less heat less cost is because it uses less watts to achieve what an hps does. That's the whole point, if you swap watts for watts no energy saving still got heat and the point of using LEDs has gone out the window because now you have way to much light output for your plants

 

[dbz]

Ah the threads that never die.
Watts are watts and Thermodynamics work, but just saying that is way too simplistic.
First a lot of LED's employ large heatsinks to disperse heat and it makes them less effective as a radiative source.
Also you can place the drivers outside of the growing area to lessen heat even more.
Then of course you have the fact that All of the extra IR in HPS increase LST much more in comparison with ambient than LEDs which tend to have virtually no IR.
When running LEDs, not only are you generally using less wattage and generating less heat in that capacity. Many times it is more mitigated by larger heat sinks and driver placement. In conjunction with the differences in LST, that lends towards an LED grow ideal ambient being 82-87 degrees typically. While you are looking at 5-10 less for HPS. This leads to a decrease in a need for cooling and a possible increase in the need for heating in some situations even if it is watt for watt. It would be most correct to say the thermal cooling properties of the two types of light are much different in general and you generally use less wattage for LED. In conjunction with LST differences due to IR this allows you to much more easily cool LEDs.
It would generally be useless to replace an adequately sized HPS with the exact same size LED unless you were adding CO2 or something to utilize the extra light (or you were well undersized with your HPS)

 

[19-Sean-86]

Ah the threads that never die.
Watts are watts and Thermodynamics work, but just saying that is way too simplistic.
First a lot of LED's employ large heatsinks to disperse heat and it makes them less effective as a radiative source.
Also you can place the drivers outside of the growing area to lessen heat even more.
Then of course you have the fact that All of the extra IR in HPS increase LST much more in comparison with ambient than LEDs which tend to have virtually no IR.
When running LEDs, not only are you generally using less wattage and generating less heat in that capacity. Many times it is more mitigated by larger heat sinks and driver placement. In conjunction with the differences in LST, that lends towards an LED grow ideal ambient being 82-87 degrees typically. While you are looking at 5-10 less for HPS. This leads to a decrease in a need for cooling and a possible increase in the need for heating in some situations even if it is watt for watt. It would be most correct to say the thermal cooling properties of the two types of light are much different in general and you generally use less wattage for LED. In conjunction with LST differences due to IR this allows you to much more easily cool LEDs.
It would generally be useless to replace an adequately sized HPS with the exact same size LED unless you were adding CO2 or something to utilize the extra light (or you were well undersized with your HPS)

Well said mate, I did on a previous comment touch on how LEDs have fans or heat sinks and hps doesn't so of course that's going to change how the difference in heats are dealt with.

 

[bernie344]

Ah the threads that never die.
Watts are watts and Thermodynamics work, but just saying that is way too simplistic.
First a lot of LED's employ large heatsinks to disperse heat and it makes them less effective as a radiative source.
Also you can place the drivers outside of the growing area to lessen heat even more.
Then of course you have the fact that All of the extra IR in HPS increase LST much more in comparison with ambient than LEDs which tend to have virtually no IR.
When running LEDs, not only are you generally using less wattage and generating less heat in that capacity. Many times it is more mitigated by larger heat sinks and driver placement. In conjunction with the differences in LST, that lends towards an LED grow ideal ambient being 82-87 degrees typically. While you are looking at 5-10 less for HPS. This leads to a decrease in a need for cooling and a possible increase in the need for heating in some situations even if it is watt for watt. It would be most correct to say the thermal cooling properties of the two types of light are much different in general and you generally use less wattage for LED. In conjunction with LST differences due to IR this allows you to much more easily cool LEDs.
It would generally be useless to replace an adequately sized HPS with the exact same size LED unless you were adding CO2 or something to utilize the extra light (or you were well undersized with your HPS)

Since I used Led I dont need any cooling but when its cold I have to insulate my tent with blankets to keep the temps up.

 

[19-Sean-86]

With LEDs the heat is sent mostly towards the top of the tent so if you have your filter extracting up top it's sucking the heat straight out but HPS mostly sends heat downwards so your extraction won't get rid of much heat until it rises whilst constantly sending more heat downwards so the tent will get hotter. I think if you was to add a heatsink to hps it wouldn't be any different to led.

 

[19-Sean-86]

@dbz hit the nail on the head, the difference is in the cooling. LEDs have ways of dealing with heat where as HPS it's all on you to deal with the heat.

 

[dbz]

With LEDs the heat is sent mostly towards the top of the tent so if you have your filter extracting up top it's sucking the heat straight out but HPS mostly sends heat downwards so your extraction won't get rid of much heat until it rises whilst constantly sending more heat downwards so the tent will get hotter. I think if you was to add a heatsink to hps it wouldn't be any different to led.

Well it would be, but that is because of the nature of the bulbs. The LEDs individually contact the heatsink. So there is a lot more heat being pulled off. You can't have nearly as much area of an HPS bulb be in contact with a heatsink. The diodes heat is removed from the back of them on each diode with a heatsink essentially. While the HPS the whole bulb generating heat is in a reflector. Only the core and coil ballast could really use a heatsink on an HPS. Due to the nature/design of LED's it is easier to create a heatsink that is far more effective.
That's why when people measure heat from one and the other they get confused and say nope..even watt for watt the HPS produces more heat. It doesn't. It just can't be as effectively managed. If you took the same watt for watt LEDs with no heatsink or fans at all you would probably end up with a similar result albeit because the heat is spread across a much greater area with LED it's still likely that the HPS would be the more effective radiator.

 

[19-Sean-86]

Well it would be, but that is because of the nature of the bulbs. The LEDs individually contact the heatsink. So there is a lot more heat being pulled off. You can't have nearly as much area of an HPS bulb be in contact with a heatsink. The diodes heat is removed from the back of them on each diode with a heatsink essentially. While the HPS the whole bulb generating heat is in a reflector. Only the core and coil ballast could really use a heatsink on an HPS. Due to the nature/design of LED's it is easier to create a heatsink that is far more effective.
That's why when people measure heat from one and the other they get confused and say nope..even watt for watt the HPS produces more heat. It doesn't. It just can't be as effectively managed. If you took the same watt for watt LEDs with no heatsink or fans at all you would probably end up with a similar result albeit because the heat is spread across a much greater area with LED it's still likely that the HPS would be the more effective radiator.

I like you @dbz a man with sense. Listen to this guy people he knows what's what.

 

[Rocket Soul]

The thing that people tend to miss in this kinda discussion is temperature gradient: heat flows from a higher temp towards a lower temp, and the higher the gradient between the both temps the more heat will be exchanged.

Lets look at this from another vantage point:
2 x 600w leds, one has a seriously beefy heat sink that only heats up by 5° above ambient, another has a small sink that heats up 40° above ambient. Both have the same wattage, which one do you think will heat up the space more?

If a watt is a watt is the whole story then why do we have different types of heaters and radiators?
I mean a micro wave oven is about 1500w, we could simply use the microwave instead of a heater if this was true.

Thermodynamic principles are very easy to grasp in theory but one of the hardest subject matters to bring to practice when it comes to doing real predictions.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

 

[cobshopgrow]

The thing that people tend to miss in this kinda discussion is temperature gradient: heat flows from a higher temp towards a lower temp, and the higher the gradient between the both temps the more heat will be exchanged.



Lets look at this from another vantage point:

2 x 600w leds, one has a seriously beefy heat sink that only heats up by 5° above ambient, another has a small sink that heats up 40° above ambient. Both have the same wattage, which one do you think will heat up the space more?

If a watt is a watt is the whole story then why do we have different types of heaters and radiators?
I mean a micro wave oven is about 1500w, we could simply use the microwave instead of a heater if this was true.

Thermodynamic principles are very easy to grasp in theory but one of the hardest subject matters to bring to practice when it comes to doing real predictions.

both heatsinks will heat the space up the same just the smaller one (with less surface area) will take longer for it.
THIS given were in a enclosed system with a perfect insulation, were not as we exhaust the warm air normally.
so the beefier heatsink should heat the space better, the smaller one even having a higher temp gradient is limited by its lack of surface area, heat exchange capabilities.
like using several smaller wattage room heaters with more surface area compared to one with more watts and a smaller surface area to heat a room.
given we use the same energy and leds (efficacy) the BTU will be the same otherwise we could create a impossible perpetuum mobile by limiting the heat sink surface area and create a higher temp gradient.

practically the better cooled leds will work a tad more efficient and therefore give less heat, but that shouldnt be that much so we may skip that point here.

a microwave heater would likely be a quite efficient heater for the home its just hard to control.
"The heating effect of microwaves destroys living tissue when the temperature of the tissue exceeds 43° C (109° F). Accordingly, exposure to intense microwaves in excess of 20 milliwatts of power per square centimetre of body surface is harmful. "

so we better stick with infrared heaters, which HPS are quite good ones.
if you want a more efficient heater go with a HPS.
a watt is still a watt here, but the heat is directly delviered to the surface, skin, foilage.

Are Infrared Heaters Energy Efficient? | Heating and Cooling Systems for at Home

Considering buying an infrared heater? These are great as additional space heater but read about the energy efficiency of these radiant heaters. Save some money

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"The best part is that radiant heaters do not require you to turn them on for long periods of time before you start to feel the warmth provided. Since they work in a different way entirely, radiant heaters begin emitting warmth right away and can be felt almost instantly. This is due to the fact that the heat you are feeling is not due to convection, but actually relies on direct absorption. You can think of a radiant heater in the same way as a campfire in the sense that the heat can be felt right away. Radiation is the key to what makes a radiant heater so energy efficient. Since convection heaters work by heating the air in a space, they take a much longer time to provide warmth and use up much more energy. However, radiant heaters work to radiate heat right away and do not require the waste of energy to function. "

so in a non isolated room, which were working with, this kind of heat is working well, see the campfire example.
a watt is a watt, but there are different forms of heat.