Organic ph up and down

[Herb potman]

Hey growers
Iam growing in fox farm soil and even tho there are buffers in soil fox farm them selves suggested I ph water to 6.5 still. So I did and then problems. I was told not to by This site and I stopped And seemed to get better. But then Iam using synthetics in my ffof was high is working but my ph down messed with the macronutrients I believe. I was told due to synthetics being ready for plant right away that I shud still ph. And scared. They seem in so Iam guna leave em. But moving forward Iam guna use Gaia green ferts with ffof soil. So does anyone know a good trusted ph up and down that is organic natural

 

[Redskare87]

Yeah I’ve had similar issues using adjusters consistently. I recently got a bunch of stuff from Kelp4less and it’s been awesome, way better then NPK RAW and cheaper. They have natural PH adjusters although I’ve been using their organic cal mag 1/4tsp and dolomite powder 1/32-1/16tsp to make higher ph water on feed days 7.1-.7.2ph, then after adding 800-1100ppm nutrients it’s at 6.3-6.5 without having to use adjusters. Mixing tap water with ro has a similar effect buffering the water. I’d definitely check out Kelp4less I’m happy with everything I got which was almost everything

 

[Herb potman]

Yeah I’ve had similar issues using adjusters consistently. I recently got a bunch of stuff from Kelp4less and it’s been awesome, way better then NPK RAW and cheaper. They have natural PH adjusters although I’ve been using their organic cal mag 1/4tsp and dolomite powder 1/32-1/16tsp to make higher ph water on feed days 7.1-.7.2ph, then after adding 800-1100ppm nutrients it’s at 6.3-6.5 without having to use adjusters. Mixing tap water with ro has a similar effect buffering the water. I’d definitely check out Kelp4less I’m happy with everything I got which was almost everything

I red the using vinegar is better to ph down with due to living soil microorganisms won’t get hurt or lime or lemon juice But 2 we’ll known organic growers use it from the podcast growcast WHat u think ?

 

[Herb potman]

Yeah I’ve had similar issues using adjusters consistently. I recently got a bunch of stuff from Kelp4less and it’s been awesome, way better then NPK RAW and cheaper. They have natural PH adjusters although I’ve been using their organic cal mag 1/4tsp and dolomite powder 1/32-1/16tsp to make higher ph water on feed days 7.1-.7.2ph, then after adding 800-1100ppm nutrients it’s at 6.3-6.5 without having to use adjusters. Mixing tap water with ro has a similar effect buffering the water. I’d definitely check out Kelp4less I’m happy with everything I got which was almost everything

What soil and nutes do u use ?

 

[Richard Drysift]

If you are using 2 part nutrients anyway then why bother trying to stay organic? If you simply add fresh worm castings and properly lime the mix after each run ph should not be of much concern. How do you know you have a ph issue?

 

[Herb potman]

If you are using 2 part nutrients anyway then why bother trying to stay organic? If you simply add fresh worm castings and properly lime the mix after each run ph should not be of much concern. How do you know you have a ph issue?

I had ph issues before but seem to get better I had a grower tell me Cuz I used ph down grotex in ffof soil And problem cud of been that I dont need to ph in ffof due to they have ph buffers in soil. Or the ph down chemical messed up my organic living soil Leaves where all yellowing from bottom cuz lockout. So I guess my real question is do I need to ph adjust to 6.5 in fox farm soil. And if I do what ph adjuster shud I use since Iam going organic

 

[Richard Drysift]

Ph is set by the composition of the soil itself but if there is very little microbial activity the mix cannot really correct itself. You should not be adjusting the ph of the water you use in soil but I know that’s what a lot of growers do. That’s fine if you are giving nutes anyway but to keep a living soil active you can simply add compost (preferably worm castings) in the form of a top dressing or tea. Then the ph buffers in the soil (minerals like D-lime, gypsum, etc.) will do the rest. Granted it takes some time to work as everything goes slowly in organic soil but there is no need to adjust or even check ph unless synthetic nutrients are used regularly.
Nutrients have ph buffers themselves. If properly mixed the ph should be in range when applied. The need to adjust ph is due to the fact that nutrients are directly absorbed by the roots. Plants feeding naturally in a living soil must have their “food” decomposed by microbes and absorbed by fungi attached to the roots. Everything must be broken down first in order to become available for absorption through symbiosis w/mycorrhizae.
Not the answer you want but that is the truth. People have problems with ph because they don’t really have a good understanding of what it is other than what their silly meter says. It is the ph of the soil in the root zone that matters; you need a soil probe to know what it is and it changes slightly every square inch of a given container based upon the composition of that particular sector.
Yellowing of the bottom leaves is normal for indoor growing but can also be a sign of possibly inadequate lighting. Look to the newest growth to determine a lockout. If the topmost growth looks healthy and green it likely not an issue related to ph. So if you just add EWC as a top dressing maybe along with some kelp and fish bone meal that in and of itself should keep ph in proper range for absorption. Pics of your plant might help determine whatever problem you may have. If you don’t use granular mycorrhizae at each transplant that is something you can do to help your plants with any kind of absorption problem in the future.

 

[Herb potman]

Ph is set by the composition of the soil itself but if there is very little microbial activity the mix cannot really correct itself. You should not be adjusting the ph of the water you use in soil but I know that’s what a lot of growers do. That’s fine if you are giving nutes anyway but to keep a living soil active you can simply add compost (preferably worm castings) in the form of a top dressing or tea. Then the ph buffers in the soil (minerals like D-lime, gypsum, etc.) will do the rest. Granted it takes some time to work as everything goes slowly in organic soil but there is no need to adjust or even check ph unless synthetic nutrients are used regularly.
Nutrients have ph buffers themselves. If properly mixed the ph should be in range when applied. The need to adjust ph is due to the fact that nutrients are directly absorbed by the roots. Plants feeding naturally in a living soil must have their “food” decomposed by microbes and absorbed by fungi attached to the roots. Everything must be broken down first in order to become available for absorption through symbiosis w/mycorrhizae.
Not the answer you want but that is the truth. People have problems with ph because they don’t really have a good understanding of what it is other than what their silly meter says. It is the ph of the soil in the root zone that matters; you need a soil probe to know what it is and it changes slightly every square inch of a given container based upon the composition of that particular sector.
Yellowing of the bottom leaves is normal for indoor growing but can also be a sign of possibly inadequate lighting. Look to the newest growth to determine a lockout. If the topmost growth looks healthy and green it likely not an issue related to ph. So if you just add EWC as a top dressing maybe along with some kelp and fish bone meal that in and of itself should keep ph in proper range for absorption. Pics of your plant might help determine whatever problem you may have. If you don’t use granular mycorrhizae at each transplant that is something you can do to help your plants with any kind of absorption problem in the future.

This is all amazing info thanks. Cuz I have been told before that for every bag of fox farm that I shud add a cup of dolomite lime to it right out the bag To give more of the story I was using gh flora series (synthetic ) with fox farm soil (organic) So now that I will move to an organic line ( Gaia green ) hopefully I don’t have to worry like U are saying. Any thought on this so far ? And also I Wud like to get something to help with microbial I think it’s called inoculate the soil. ? But Iam new to all this. Can u reccomend something for this. I have heard of recharge and mammoth P ? But Iam in Canada and it’s pricey to get those items here ?

 

[Highlife42]

I concur to Richard Drysift has explained. Have you tested your soil PH? I use Natural teas (not organic, imo big difference) from fermented plants and fruit waste like bananas and oranges..etc..NPK type ferments. Ferments are usually around ~4.0 Ph. Done correctly. Therefore, there's your PH down. Earthworm castings tea have a nice PH buffer. However, water PH and the rhizosphere(soil) PH are way different. All that energy/synthetic chemicals has to be broken down and become bioavailable for the plants roots to want it.

 

[Herb potman]

I concur to Richard Drysift has explained. Have you tested your soil PH? I use Natural teas (not organic, imo big difference) from fermented plants and fruit waste like bananas and oranges..etc..NPK type ferments. Ferments are usually around ~4.0 Ph. Done correctly. Therefore, there's your PH down. Earthworm castings tea have a nice PH buffer. However, water PH and the rhizosphere(soil) PH are way different. All that energy/synthetic chemicals has to be broken down and become bioavailable for the plants roots to want it.

3 plants runoff ph is between 6.2-6.5 and my plant that had the problems that I had to flush in long run ph in runoff is 5.9

 

[Highlife42]

Ok. So you may have a redox issue. Your chemicals are not being broken down, which requires lots of work and energy in the soil. Which also requires oxygen. Which inhibits plant growth through inhibition of respiration and production/breakdown of toxins So, in that specifically, how compact is the soil? How wet is it? Whats your water EC and PPM?... What size pots are you in? and which week are they at in which stage of growth=How much water.. So how much water are you giving them and how often?

 

[Herb potman]

Ok. So you may have a redox issue. Your chemicals are not being broken down, which requires lots of work and energy in the soil. Which also requires oxygen. Which inhibits plant growth through inhibition of respiration and production/breakdown of toxins So, in that specifically, how compact is the soil? How wet is it? Whats your water EC and PPM?... What size pots are you in? and which week are they at in which stage of growth=How much water.. So how much water are you giving them and how often?

My problem plant is in a 5 gallon with ffof soil and about 25% perlite mixed in. This plant is one of 2 in plastic pot other is in a 3 gallon plastic pot and other 2 plants are in fabric pots And the problem plant I shud of made more holes myself in bottom for better drainage but 1 of my rookie mistakes and was told not to do now cuz don’t wanna hit the roots so I think u right And that plant always takes longest to dry out I water it every 4-5 days And it’s the lowest in ppm value due to I had to flush it a month ago and was told to add dolomite lime And I didn’t. Ppm is 800 but due to its organic soil I was told hard to value it

 

[Highlife42]

OMG I dislike plastic pots! Those 2 mixed together. Oh yeah, compact! 800ppm, where are your plants at in growth stage? Every 4-5 days is too long for water. Your soil should be healthy and full of food for the roots, moistened.

 

[Herb potman]

OMG I dislike plastic pots! Those 2 mixed together. Oh yeah, compact! 800ppm, where are your plants at in growth stage? Every 4-5 days is too long for water. Your soil should be healthy and full of food for the roots, moistened.

There autos Have u ever been a n living soil soil before ? Runoff ppm starts at 4000 out the bag Ppm don’t make sense to use for organic soil unless u measuring water going in

 

[Herb potman]

OMG I dislike plastic pots! Those 2 mixed together. Oh yeah, compact! 800ppm, where are your plants at in growth stage? Every 4-5 days is too long for water. Your soil should be healthy and full of food for the roots, moistened.

Which 2 thing should mixed together ? Plastic Pots and what else ? Not enough drain holes ?

 

[Highlife42]

2 things mixed together, as in your issue like we said before. If I envision your plastic pots like mine or similar. Then, yes not enough drain and lack of oxygen/air flow.. No other issue bro.. FFOF out the bag and plastic pots lol Just becomes to compact after awhile like we know now lol. How big are your plants?? And yes, I use natural products from nature/my backyard in my living soil. I also use FFOF too tho. But I add lots of amendments. Let it cook for a couple weeks... Sawdust, German Shepherd dog hair, pumice stone, douglas fir pine twigs and needles, microgreen matter, ~30% earthworm castings and lots more bro. Just to give you ideas, that synthetics are costly, hurt our environment, and requires stable levels=more monitoring=more labor to monitor for lockout issues with synthetics and requires longer and more flushing if you did need to flush bc of lockout.

 

[Herb potman]

2 things mixed together, as in your issue like we said before. If I envision your plastic pots like mine or similar. Then, yes not enough drain and lack of oxygen/air flow.. No other issue bro.. FFOF out the bag and plastic pots lol Just becomes to compact after awhile like we know now lol. How big are your plants?? And yes, I use natural products from nature/my backyard in my living soil. I also use FFOF too tho. But I add lots of amendments. Let it cook for a couple weeks... Sawdust, German Shepherd dog hair, pumice stone, douglas fir pine twigs and needles, microgreen matter, ~30% earthworm castings and lots more bro. Just to give you ideas, that synthetics are costly, hurt our environment, and requires stable levels=more monitoring=more labor to monitor for lockout issues with synthetics and requires longer and more flushing if you did need to flush bc of lockout.

That all sounds awesome I am doing a lot of reading on KNF stuff with Chris triumph and others. I hope one day to get to where u are with living soils. I Wud love to also take any advice u for. So u ph your water going into your ffof ? My tap water is 8 ph and seems to be ok with soil buffers I assume. Or I heard I can use vinegar to lower ph and not harm microbial life in soil like I think I did before. And me using synthetics in Organics. But my plants are growing still with a few problems hear and there. I learning first grow. That’s for sure. My next run my plan is to use Gaia green dry amendments (it’s like dr earth in states ) with the ffof for Iam in Canada and thats the soil and style of organic nutes. My plan is to let soil nutes deplete then top dress with organic Gaia green. Any pointers here. And definitely guna go all fabric pots. Any easy advice for a beginner on how to keep soil less compact so oxygen gets through ? More perlite ? Help.

 

[Herb potman]

2 things mixed together, as in your issue like we said before. If I envision your plastic pots like mine or similar. Then, yes not enough drain and lack of oxygen/air flow.. No other issue bro.. FFOF out the bag and plastic pots lol Just becomes to compact after awhile like we know now lol. How big are your plants?? And yes, I use natural products from nature/my backyard in my living soil. I also use FFOF too tho. But I add lots of amendments. Let it cook for a couple weeks... Sawdust, German Shepherd dog hair, pumice stone, douglas fir pine twigs and needles, microgreen matter, ~30% earthworm castings and lots more bro. Just to give you ideas, that synthetics are costly, hurt our environment, and requires stable levels=more monitoring=more labor to monitor for lockout issues with synthetics and requires longer and more flushing if you did need to flush bc of lockout.

My plants are a decent size but not sure I got them bent down way too far from LST. Lol. I will send a pic.

 

[Herb potman]

2 things mixed together, as in your issue like we said before. If I envision your plastic pots like mine or similar. Then, yes not enough drain and lack of oxygen/air flow.. No other issue bro.. FFOF out the bag and plastic pots lol Just becomes to compact after awhile like we know now lol. How big are your plants?? And yes, I use natural products from nature/my backyard in my living soil. I also use FFOF too tho. But I add lots of amendments. Let it cook for a couple weeks... Sawdust, German Shepherd dog hair, pumice stone, douglas fir pine twigs and needles, microgreen matter, ~30% earthworm castings and lots more bro. Just to give you ideas, that synthetics are costly, hurt our environment, and requires stable levels=more monitoring=more labor to monitor for lockout issues with synthetics and requires longer and more flushing if you did need to flush bc of lockout.

 

[Herb potman]

62 days old Auto gorilla glue from nirvana seeds. Yellow one still giving buds tho But it looks starved and no need so start over feeding now since guna have to start to week final flush only water diet for them soon. Just sucks that the 2 plants in front flowered faster or better not sure.