PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
Is "part A" both Jacks and Epsom salts, or just Jacks?
3 days on jack's 5-12-26 and the plants are loving it! Bye bye General Hydroponics forever
- Thread starter jonnynobody
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jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Yes part A is jack's 5-12-26. Epsom salts is the only one that still needs to be weighed out. A lot of people omit the epsom salts because jack's 5-12-26 has 6.3%. I add the additional epsom. Plants seem to love it.
newbplantgrower420
Well-Known Member
i think im just going to end up making it on the spot like old times.
my only question is this. i got 1000ml cup im going to put all of part A into for a 70 gal rez. will adding epsom for the 70gal in that same cup cause some sort of precipitation? if i can mix 2 cups per rez instead of 3 itd be more convenient.
should i just keep it all seperate. i know A does have magnesium sulfate in it so im thinking it shouldnt cause any issues even tho its going to be hella concentrated in that 1000ml cup with the some tap water
PJ Diaz
Well-Known Member
When I make a "part a" and "part b", my part a is jacks+epsom, and part b is just calnit. I do concentrations of my part A at less than 1 lb per gal however.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Great observation. Yes, jack's 5-12-26 contains magnesium sulfate. There are no chemical conflicts mixing epsom with jack's. I'm really glad you mentioned this. I've always mixed my epsom separate from my jack's. No particular reason why. I'm just simple minded
You saved me a step by making me realize I can just add the epsom with the 5-12-26 and it saves me from having to mix another powder with water before adding to the res. That might seem petty to someone who doesn't have to make a res every day. Anything that saves me time in the garden is as good as gold to me. I would rather shovel shit than make a res. I don't know why. I just hate doing it. And you just saved me some time on the daily. Thanks dude jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
I am horrible with math and measurements. I have to read today on how stock solutions and ratios work so I can actually apply stock solution to my garden without fucking everything to hell. Me and math don't get along. Grams and pounds I'm good with. Ratios and the metric system fuck me all up. I'll see if I can wrap my head around this shit today
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
So I have 2 stock solutions made up on hand. 1 is jack's 5-12-26 at the maximum solubility of 2# to 1 gallon RO water. The other is 580g calcium nitrate to 1 gallon RO water. I'm going to figure out how much liquid stock solution is needed of each that is equivalent to 3.6g/gallon of powder and 2.4g/gallon of powder. Once I have those numbers I can start rocking the stock solution accurately with confidence. I'll be adding epsom to my next stock solution to make res making day as easy as possible. I hate weighing powders
Easy enough to figure out. 2lbs is 907.185g, when dissolved in RO and topped up so it s exactly a gallon (3.785L) you will have 239.6g of jacks in each litre of stock (907.185g/3.785L) The stock is 1: 239.6
Divide the 239.6g by 1000 and that tells you 1ml of the stock will contain 0.2396g of jacks. 3.6g per gallon is equal to 0.9511g per litre (3.6g/3.785L) so you`ll need to add 3.97ml of the jacks stock per "litre" of res (0.9511g/0.2396g per ml). Technically its minus the 3.97ml stock addition)
For the calcium stock, 580g/3.785L is 153.323g per litre (1:153). 153.323g/1000 gives you 0.1532g per ml. 2.4g per gallon is equal to 0.634g per litre so you`ll need to add 4.139ml per "litre" of res (minus the 4.139ml)
To make life easier i would alter the concentrations of the stocks to simplify things so instead of using 3.97ml/gal and 4.139ml/gal you just add 5ml/gal of each.If you work through the math you`ll soon get the hang of how to do it, using the metric system is a lot easier because you dont need to convert gallons to litres or lbs to grams. If you are using the maximum concentration for the Jacks stock i would recommend a separate stock for the epsom .
Divide the 239.6g by 1000 and that tells you 1ml of the stock will contain 0.2396g of jacks. 3.6g per gallon is equal to 0.9511g per litre (3.6g/3.785L) so you`ll need to add 3.97ml of the jacks stock per "litre" of res (0.9511g/0.2396g per ml). Technically its minus the 3.97ml stock addition)
For the calcium stock, 580g/3.785L is 153.323g per litre (1:153). 153.323g/1000 gives you 0.1532g per ml. 2.4g per gallon is equal to 0.634g per litre so you`ll need to add 4.139ml per "litre" of res (minus the 4.139ml)
To make life easier i would alter the concentrations of the stocks to simplify things so instead of using 3.97ml/gal and 4.139ml/gal you just add 5ml/gal of each.If you work through the math you`ll soon get the hang of how to do it, using the metric system is a lot easier because you dont need to convert gallons to litres or lbs to grams. If you are using the maximum concentration for the Jacks stock i would recommend a separate stock for the epsom .
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jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
I can't thank you enough for this. I was getting stressed out earlier just trying to think of the math equation that would get me to the right number
Thank you also for the recommendation of making a separate stock solution with the epsom salt too! I completely forgot the maximum solubility of jack's in 1 gallon of water is 2#. Nothing more will go into solution. I'd have wound up with a bunch of epsom salt undissolved in the bottom of my stock container. The examples you posted is just awesome and helps me understand how to work with the numbers to make accurate conversions moving forward. Thank you again for helping a simpleton like me with the math. Something tells me many others seeing this thread will benefit too!
lol, converting gals and litre is confusing, its easy to trip up. I`ve editted the post above to reflect the dose should be ml per Litre not per gallon. If you want ml per gal simply multiply by 3.785.
The calculations were just for the jacks and calcinit, no additional epsom. To make up simplified (1:200) 1 gallon (3.785L) stocks, use 720g of Jacks in one and 480g of calcinit in the other. Dose 5ml of each per "litre" of res.
The calculations were just for the jacks and calcinit, no additional epsom. To make up simplified (1:200) 1 gallon (3.785L) stocks, use 720g of Jacks in one and 480g of calcinit in the other. Dose 5ml of each per "litre" of res.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Thanks again Atomizer! You rock!
Today I finally got notification that my 7-15-30 finish formula will arrive on thursday. After looking at the formula compared to 5-12-26 there isn't a great deal of difference. A little more P and K, but not much. A touch less N. I'm scheduled to take down my first plant next friday, so today I stopped feeding the calcium nitrate and instead increased the jack's. I did 5g jack's and 1.1g epsom salts per gallon which is the same ratio Peters recommends for the 7-15-30 finish formula. Since the ingredients are darn near identical it should work great until my finish formula arrives on thursday. I only do a 3 day flush so that will give me 5 days or so on the finish formula. I can only take down 1 plant per day because the wife and I trim by hand, so it will take us 9 days to harvest beginning to end. They'll all get the 7-15-30 @ the recommended 5g/gallon along with 1.1g/gallon epsom salt with 3 days of plain water prior to their chop day. This is the first time I've omitted the calcium nitrate in the final 1-2 weeks of flower. I'm looking forward to seeing how things improve versus keeping calcium nitrate through to the end like I did on my last run with blue dream. I'll snap some flower room pics tomorrow. The buds are just ridiculous
newbplantgrower420
Well-Known Member
well thats good to know that you can pretty much mimic the 7-15-30 formula. cuts out an extra bag and saves some money in the process.Thanks again Atomizer! You rock!
Today I finally got notification that my 7-15-30 finish formula will arrive on thursday. After looking at the formula compared to 5-12-26 there isn't a great deal of difference. A little more P and K, but not much. A touch less N. I'm scheduled to take down my first plant next friday, so today I stopped feeding the calcium nitrate and instead increased the jack's. I did 5g jack's and 1.1g epsom salts per gallon which is the same ratio Peters recommends for the 7-15-30 finish formula. Since the ingredients are darn near identical it should work great until my finish formula arrives on thursday. I only do a 3 day flush so that will give me 5 days or so on the finish formula. I can only take down 1 plant per day because the wife and I trim by hand, so it will take us 9 days to harvest beginning to end. They'll all get the 7-15-30 @ the recommended 5g/gallon along with 1.1g/gallon epsom salt with 3 days of plain water prior to their chop day. This is the first time I've omitted the calcium nitrate in the final 1-2 weeks of flower. I'm looking forward to seeing how things improve versus keeping calcium nitrate through to the end like I did on my last run with blue dream. I'll snap some flower room pics tomorrow. The buds are just ridiculous
5g of Jacks + 1.1g of Epsom roughly = 7-15-30?
@TintEastwood can you doublecheck the maths on it?
i think thats what ill do then if i like what i see from the Finish formula when it comes in a week or two.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
5-12-26 is close in NPK ratios to 7-15-30. Epsom salt isn't represented in the NPK ratio. You definitely do not need to waste any cheddar on the finish formula. It's not necessary. I'm just giving it a shot because I wanted to try it. Just like I might try their 1 part RO formula down the road. I like to tinker around. By no means do you need anything other than jack's 5-12-26, calcium nitrate, and epsom salt to grow thick resinous flowers.
newbplantgrower420
Well-Known Member
ya but the finish has a bunch of extra sulfur and magnesium so im wondering if that amt of epsom per gal is approximately the same. cause sulfur is the main nutrient responsible for the resin and the smell from what ive read.
this might happen to u if u use the Ro formula. im running it and it gives nice flower but it leaves blue dye stains everywhere where theres airflow. i talked to them and they said its normal. got some blue dye stains on my oscillating fans too.
thats why im just goong to go back to the 321. no nasty stains from blue dye
newbplantgrower420
Well-Known Member
they said cause its normal if you mix large batches. nothing to worry about. i got 70gal reservoirs
i just rather not change carbon filters and dehumi filters and scrub my fans and reservoirs down every run.
this is what it is now. gonna finish this run up with this ro version nute and call it a day. worked well though. just some phosphorus deficencies early flip which im hoping jacks 321 will fix next run.
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I wouldnt recommend using the 5-12-26 as a sub for the 7-15-30. The 7-15-30 uses ammonium sulphate to provide a big chunk of the N and the sulphur boost.. You could amend the 5-12-26 with additional ammonium sulphate but it will be 30% light on P and K compared to the 7-15-30. The main problem is the Mg, its 3x higher than the 7-15-30 even without the additional 1.1g of epsom.
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the great info! My order of 7-15-30 is scheduled to arrive today. I'm mixing a res as soon as it hits my door step! Feel like a kid waiting for santa to show up
jonnynobody
Well-Known Member
My 7-15-30 finish formula arrived this morning. I grabbed 2 homer buckets with gasket lined lids to store the new formula in. The extra bucket is to store my calcium nitrate stock in. Eventually I'll grab another for the epsom salt. I didn't even think about it when I was at the store.
This formula is very different from the 5-12-26. The granules of raw elements look nothing like the 5-12-26 raw elements. I took some photos to articulate just how remarkably different this stuff is from the 5-12-26. It's also blue rather than light brown:
I added 150g to a 30 gallon res of RO along with 33g epsom salt. The res is still filling so I won't know the ppm until later today. The first water in will happen this evening for my twice a day drinkers in the flower room. Tomorrow the whole flower room will be watered in with 7-15-30. Then 3 days prior to each plant's scheduled chop date I will give plain water only like GreenGene recommends. I know Peters recommends a 1 week flush, but I feel that's excessive and unnecessary which is why I'm sticking with 3 days. I didn't flush the last blue dream I just harvested at all. It's phenomenal. However, to see if there is any observable improvement I will conduct a 3 day flush cycle of plain RO water. I really also hate the term flush. You flush a toilet not plants. Moving forward I'm going to refer to it what it actually is: leeching. Soil gardeners do the same thing. As the plant is winding down it's life cycle outdoor gardeners aren't dumping buckets of bat guano on their soil. That would be stupid, right? They stop feeding all fertilizer inputs about a week prior to harvest, because the plant no longer needs it in the ripening phase just before harvest. They don't call it flushing. It's simply a discontinuation of fertilizer which allows the plant to ripen and use up any available nutrients that have been stored. If you have over fed your plant for 10 weeks you can flush all of the great lakes through your plant and none of it will "wash out" the elements you've ever fed the plant over the course of it's lifecycle. Those elements are locked into the plant's tissue. It doesn't just wash away. That would be as silly as someone telling a fat person to drink a bunch of water every day to flush your fat cells away. Sounds stupid, right? Because it is, and the idea of flushing elements out of a plant's tissue is no more intelligent an argument to make
With that I will never use the term flush again moving forward. It's just not the proper terminology and only serves to exacerbate poor logic in regards to how plants work. I will leech my plants with RO water for 3 days prior to harvest
You can make fun of my blender. I don't mind. Jonny doesn't shake or stir. Just ain't my thang
This formula is very different from the 5-12-26. The granules of raw elements look nothing like the 5-12-26 raw elements. I took some photos to articulate just how remarkably different this stuff is from the 5-12-26. It's also blue rather than light brown:
I added 150g to a 30 gallon res of RO along with 33g epsom salt. The res is still filling so I won't know the ppm until later today. The first water in will happen this evening for my twice a day drinkers in the flower room. Tomorrow the whole flower room will be watered in with 7-15-30. Then 3 days prior to each plant's scheduled chop date I will give plain water only like GreenGene recommends. I know Peters recommends a 1 week flush, but I feel that's excessive and unnecessary which is why I'm sticking with 3 days. I didn't flush the last blue dream I just harvested at all. It's phenomenal. However, to see if there is any observable improvement I will conduct a 3 day flush cycle of plain RO water. I really also hate the term flush. You flush a toilet not plants. Moving forward I'm going to refer to it what it actually is: leeching. Soil gardeners do the same thing. As the plant is winding down it's life cycle outdoor gardeners aren't dumping buckets of bat guano on their soil. That would be stupid, right? They stop feeding all fertilizer inputs about a week prior to harvest, because the plant no longer needs it in the ripening phase just before harvest. They don't call it flushing. It's simply a discontinuation of fertilizer which allows the plant to ripen and use up any available nutrients that have been stored. If you have over fed your plant for 10 weeks you can flush all of the great lakes through your plant and none of it will "wash out" the elements you've ever fed the plant over the course of it's lifecycle. Those elements are locked into the plant's tissue. It doesn't just wash away. That would be as silly as someone telling a fat person to drink a bunch of water every day to flush your fat cells away. Sounds stupid, right? Because it is, and the idea of flushing elements out of a plant's tissue is no more intelligent an argument to make
With that I will never use the term flush again moving forward. It's just not the proper terminology and only serves to exacerbate poor logic in regards to how plants work. I will leech my plants with RO water for 3 days prior to harvest
You can make fun of my blender. I don't mind. Jonny doesn't shake or stir. Just ain't my thang