Afganistan Collapse

[Dr.Amber Trichome]

Biden is the only president that has the balls to do this. He knew what was at stake and how everyone would throw him under the bus for this but knew it had to be done and I respect him for getting us out of this shit hole once and for all.

 

[nuskool89]

Im curious at what point do you think this gets 'entirely avoided'?

Im ok with Biden being POTUS taking the heat. But I don't think that it should mean that people are forced into a box of ignoring the reality of what took place and was left on Biden's plate by Trump who sold us out time and again to foreign nations.

This sucks, and I am heart broken for the people who thought they would get to see their family in a few days because of these murderous dicks.

Entirely avoided meaning the chaotic reaction to our exit. The planning surrounding the exit. How each segment could have been executed compared to how it was executed. Nothing was proactive.

Multiple Afghan military bases and outposts started surrendering in as early as April of this year. It’s total bullshit the intel wasn’t available to have done this effectively in June/July (the exit) as several commanding officers expressed concerns directly up the chain of command in June/July about the high probability of a domino effect of surrendering Afghan servicemen.

A Wave of Afghan Surrenders to the Taliban Picks Up Speed (Published 2021)

Dozens of besieged outposts or bases, and four district centers, have given up to the insurgents this month, in an accelerating rural collapse as American troops leave.

www.nytimes.com

 

[BudmanTX]

It was in a Politico article I read yesterday. Can't find it now, suck. But it said point blank the US had agreed to Taliban controlled security outside the airport, where the bombs detonated.

well if you find it, tag me, and i'll read it....

 

[hanimmal]

Entirely avoided meaning the chaotic reaction to our exit. The planning surrounding the exit. How each segment could have been executed compared to how it was executed. Nothing was proactive.

This sounds good, but I don't know how you have enough information to actually say this.

Multiple Afghan military bases and outposts started surrendering in as early as April of this year. It’s total bullshit the intel wasn’t available to have done this effectively in June/July (the exit) as several commanding officers expressed concerns directly up the chain of command in June/July about the high probability of a domino effect of surrendering Afghan servicemen.

We didn't know if we would be at war with Russia until mid June, and Trump had ordered us out by May with his agreement with the Taliban. Im pretty happy we are not at the moment already in WW3.

Sure there would be people who would be concerned. And the generals said that they had planned that the Afghan government would fold, everywhere from weeks to years they said in that press conference.

I am willing to admit that I can be wrong because I really don't know shit, but with public information out there and the explanations from the actual generals (and not some dick head who thinks he knows all because of his gut and a bunch of people sucking up to him in every press conference) I don't buy the Monday morning quarterbacking before we are even done.


Also still curious on how many Kurds were evacuated. I can't find it anywhere.

 

[BudmanTX]

This sounds good, but I don't know how you have enough information to actually say this.


We didn't know if we would be at war with Russia until mid June, and Trump had ordered us out by May with his agreement with the Taliban. Im pretty happy we are not at the moment already in WW3.

Sure there would be people who would be concerned. And the generals said that they had planned that the Afghan government would fold, everywhere from weeks to years they said in that press conference.

I am willing to admit that I can be wrong because I really don't know shit, but with public information out there and the explanations from the actual generals (and not some dick head who thinks he knows all because of his gut and a bunch of people sucking up to him in every press conference) I don't buy the Monday morning quarterbacking before we are even done.


Also still curious on how many Kurds were evacuated. I can't find it anywhere.

the kurdish evac? yeah i'm interested as well.....i'd bet it's none....course i could be wrong

 

[nuskool89]

I don't buy this ignoring recent history thing.

In June we were not even sure if there was not going to be all out war with Russia. Trump fucked the visa application process for the fleeing Afghanis and dumped a steaming pile of shit on Biden (pandemic, Russia, too much to list) and the Republicans have been keeping it warm.

I asked earlier, but didn't get a response from anyone, so maybe you might know. How many Kurdish helpers did Trump evacuate ahead of the Syria withdraw?

View attachment 4973395

Giving names of people showing up?

The way you responded I thought that you meant that they gave them the names of everyone in the country which is not what that link says.

I was very disappointed with our lack of support offered to the Kurds in that time. It’s an interesting coincidence you bring it up, as I view it as a huge miss in Trump’s decisioning. From my perspective looking back, one of the few mistakes he made in terms of military leadership and engagement.

Just so you know, we were never close to war with Russia, China, or North Korea under Trump, Obama, or Bush. Our submarine force alone is the strongest deterrent against any foreign power(every nation knows we have them, and that one SSBN houses enough warheads to cause nuclear winter). Edit: I do not say this with any sense of brashness or exaggeration

The biggest threat to the US military and the citizens of the US comes from extremist factions/groups that may in fact be funded by certain countries, but fly no flag of any nation.

 

[hanimmal]

I was very disappointed with our lack of support offered to the Kurds in that time. It’s an interesting coincidence you bring it up, as I view it as a huge miss in Trump’s decisioning. From my perspective looking back, one of the few mistakes he made in terms of military leadership and engagement.

What about all his talk about abandoning South Korea and the EU allies? If we wouldn't have had iron clad agreements with them that Trump couldn't break he would have undercut those allies too. Or do you not consider that because he couldn't do it even though he emboldened our adversaries and hurt our relationship with our allies ultimately hurting our global standing.

Also how do you feel about his military leadership with shit talking gay/trans military?

Not to mention Trump's acceptance of what Putin told him over his own nation's intel.

Just so you know, we were never close to war with Russia, China, or North Korea under Trump, Obama, or Bush. Our submarine force alone is the strongest deterrent against any foreign power(every nation knows we have them, and that one SSBN houses enough warheads to cause nuclear winter)

I don't buy this. The cyber warfare is very real and is impacting us greatly. And it is easy to say that we were not close to war with Russia, but it is going to take a lot to convince me that this is not just wishful thinking.

The biggest threat to the US military and the citizens of the US comes from extremist factions/groups that may in fact be funded by certain countries, but fly no flag of any nation.

I strongly agree with us being our own biggest threat. 600,000+ dead proves this.

 

[CatHedral]

I was very disappointed with our lack of support offered to the Kurds in that time. It’s an interesting coincidence you bring it up, as I view it as a huge miss in Trump’s decisioning. From my perspective looking back, one of the few mistakes he made in terms of military leadership and engagement.

Just so you know, we were never close to war with Russia, China, or North Korea under Trump, Obama, or Bush. Our submarine force alone is the strongest deterrent against any foreign power(every nation knows we have them, and that one SSBN houses enough warheads to cause nuclear winter). Edit: I do not say this with any sense of brashness or exaggeration

The biggest threat to the US military and the citizens of the US comes from extremist factions/groups that may in fact be funded by certain countries, but fly no flag of any nation.

Suggesting that this was a "huge miss" by That Man falsely implies that he usually did better.

 

[printer]

This is such an idiotic response to the specifics that have played out in Afghanistan over the last month. Bush, Obama, and Trump have zilch, zero, nada to do with this failure.

The failed plan and timing to first evacuate US citizens, then Afghan helpers, then US military equipment, THEN the remaining servicemen, falls solely on Biden and the advisors around him.

What fucked things up was the Afghans that were trained and equipped to fight the Taliban laying down their arms and vacating the area. The Taliban filled the vacuum. This happening was not factored in to the evacuation.

 

[smokinrav]

Truly, Russia is a paper tiger. They couldn't financially sustain a major campaign against anyone not Georgia or Ukraine-like. The most formidable non-radioactive weapon in Russia's arsenal is the internet. Check out the hilarity that is the story of Russias lone aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov

Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thats no nation to be afraid of militarily, short of nuclear war.

 

[nuskool89]

@hanimmal @CatHedral @printer I’ll come back and respond* I wish I was on a keyboard and not a phone

Edit: holy shit this Diablo OG is fire. Not a fan of the pepper terps but goddamn I’m couch locked

 

[Lucky Luke]

This is such an idiotic response to the specifics that have played out in Afghanistan over the last month. Bush, Obama, and Trump have zilch, zero, nada to do with this failure.

The failed plan and timing to first evacuate US citizens, then Afghan helpers, then US military equipment, THEN the remaining servicemen, falls solely on Biden and the advisors around him.

Not really. Its Trumps surrender not anyone's else's. Trump was the one who started the surrender talks and got the Afghan gov to reelease 1000's of Taliban POW's. Yes Biden has been left with Trumps mess but the surrender to the Taliban is all Trump.
But blaming people means only one thing. Blame the President who Invaded in the first place.

 

[Lucky Luke]

What fucked things up was the Afghans that were trained and equipped to fight the Taliban laying down their arms and vacating the area. The Taliban filled the vacuum. This happening was not factored in to the evacuation.

It was known how fast the American puppet gov would fold.


"Well, there are 29 million people in Afghanistan. They are Aimaq, Hazara, Pashtun, Baloch, Kyrgyz, Nuristani, Sadat, Tajik, Turkmen, Uzbek, Pashayi, Arab…and I can go on and on. They do not all despise the Taliban.

But you know who despises the Taliban? The Afghanis who benefitted the most from the US occupation of the country. The corrupt government the US installed. The corrupt tribal leaders it paid off not to kill US soldiers. The lapdogs and sycophants who enriched themselves and lived inside the Green Zone and worked for the USA and us as translators, fixers, and so on."



Interesting read from a Australians perspective

AFGHANISTAN - WELL, THAT WENT WELL, HUH? - Years of Writing Dangerously

I sometimes think we’re not actually a country but a bunch of snarky, ignorant, jingoistic drunks and gamblers who, now and again, take some time off from telling ourselves how great we are to smear our soft bodies in our own patriotic excrement. It’s happening right now. In the middle of a...

borismihailovic.com

 

[smokinrav]

I'm not upset about the withdrawal, it should have been done by Obama in 2010 when bin Laden was killed. No, JSOC (special operation command) could have had covert evacs of Afghan civilians underway for months before Biden announced a September 11 full withdrawal date in Fucking February. That empowered the Taliban to begin reclaiming the rural parts of the country. They're not stupid, they knew the mission couldn't support packing for a withdrawal and tactical patrols.

Biden fucked this up, big time.

 

[hanimmal]

I'm not upset about the withdrawal, it should have been done by Obama in 2010 when bin Laden was killed. No, JSOC (special operation command) could have had covert evacs of Afghan civilians underway for months before Biden announced a September 11 full withdrawal date in Fucking February. That empowered the Taliban to begin reclaiming the rural parts of the country. They're not stupid, they knew the mission couldn't support packing for a withdrawal and tactical patrols.

Biden fucked this up, big time.

I would point out that they had over a year leading up to Biden's announcement in April since the Taliban were ready for a May withdraw that Trump had negotiated.

 

[smokinrav]

I know, but everything Trump did was fingernail scratch deep. Except denying covid, of course.

 

[rkymtnman]

It was known how fast the American puppet gov would fold.

i don't think anybody expected Kabul to be over-run in 11 days by the taliban.

 

[hanimmal]

I know, but everything Trump did was fingernail scratch deep. Except denying covid, of course.

Trump maybe, but the nazi's he had appointed over the 4 years wrecking everything on their way out is another story.

https://www.salon.com/2021/08/21/former-trump-insider-reveals-how-stephen-millers-racist-hysteria-sabotaged-afghan-refugee-effort_partner/

With the Taliban having seized control of Afghanistan, former White House Senior Adviser Stephen Miller is among the MAGA Republicans who is vehemently opposed to bringing Afghan refugees into the United States. Former Mike Pence staffer turned Never Trump conservative Olivia Troye addresses Miller's anti-refugee views this week in a Twitter thread, pointing out that he has a long history of pushing "racist hysteria" where refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq are concerned.

Troye, who has described herself as a "John McCain Republican," left the Trump White House last year in response to then-President Donald Trump's disastrous response to the COVID-19 pandemic — and she infuriated Trumpworld by announcing that she would be voting for now-President Joe Biden in the 2020 election. When Troye was part of Pence's staff, she specialized in national security matters and favored SIVs or special immigrant visas for Afghan refugees; Miller was adamantly opposed to them.

Miller expressed his anti-refugee views earlier this week during an appearance on Fox News, where he told host Laura Ingraham, "Those who are advocating mass Afghan resettlements in this country are doing so for political, not humanitarian, reasons…. Resettling in America is not about solving a humanitarian crisis, it's about accomplishing an ideological objective: to change America."

With the "change America" comment, Miller was venturing into Great Replacement territory. The Great Replacement is a racist far-right conspiracy theory claiming that liberals and progressives are trying to "replace" Whites with non-Whites in western countries.

Troye, in her Twitter thread, recalls how intensely Miller fought against refugees when she was part of Pence's staff:

In her thread, Troye not only calls out Miller, but also, "Hillbilly Elegy" author J.D. Vance — who is running for the U.S. Senate in Ohio as a MAGA Republican and has also come out against bringing Afghan refugees into the U.S.

And it still gave the Taliban a year head start and who knows how much intel directly to Putin to fuck with us.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I know, but everything Trump did was fingernail scratch deep. Except denying covid, of course.

You have a short memory.
Trump vilified racism and instigated country wide riots. He legitimised on the world stage the North Korean dictatorship. He set back Western and Chinese relations by lots of years. He went back on his word to transexual solders. I'm sure we could go on and on.

 

[Lucky Luke]

i don't think anybody expected Kabul to be over-run in 11 days by the taliban.

It wasn't over run. The Taliban walked in.