HydroKid239
Well-Known Member
I blame Trump
Pandemic 2020
- Thread starter Jimdamick
- Start date
- Status
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Not picking a fight, just asking. What good does "holding the nation responsible" for the votes of a minority accomplish? I'm all for owning up to facts and taking responsibility for my bad decisions and actions. That's one way to improve one's self. But this blame everybody for the actions of a few makes no sense to me. What do we do with that going forward?
HGCC
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's what I meant/said, at least in terms of voting?
I hold the nation responsible for underlying conditions. Going forward, we address those issues or a bunch of stupid consequences occur that we all have to deal with. Big topics like education fall under that government umbrella we are all responsible for, I don't think we have done a good job. It isnt necessarily about casting blame or personal responsibility, it's a societal problem that requires everyone to fix, so we need to take responsibility even if we aren't part of or a cause.
Edit: in this instance, we have a population that is poorly educated, resulting in a percentage of them believing nonsense and how that impacts how they live their lives...but the rest of us have to deal with their no mask coal rolling shit.
Edit: and I have no idea how to fix it. We are at the point being stupid is celebrated as a way to troll dems by large chunks of the population spanning large geographic areas.
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
I think a populace that can distinguish between real and fake is less important than how much of the populace chooses to exercise the capacity. In the States that is not being done by maybe every third adult.
Politicized education is a real problem. It reduces our ability and desire to make individual and rational choices based on information we verified without relying on sentiment or loyalty.
I do think there is no collective solution here until our various levels of government act less pathological. In the meantime we take individual responsibility of our ideologies and how we came to them.
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
The idiots in this country will destroy it.
printer
Well-Known Member
Pfizer signs deal to let generic drug companies make its COVID-19 antiviral pill
Pfizer Inc. has signed a deal with a UN-backed group to allow other manufacturers to make its experimental COVID-19 antiviral pill, a move that could make the treatment available to more than half of the world's population.
In a statement issued Tuesday, Pfizer said it would grant a licence for the antiviral pill to the Geneva-based Medicines Patent Pool, which would let generic drug companies produce the pill for use in 95 countries, making up about 53 per cent of the world's population.
The deal excludes some large countries that have suffered devastating coronavirus outbreaks. For example, while a Brazilian drug company could get a licence to make the pill for export to other countries, the medicine could not be made generically for use in Brazil.
Still, health officials said the fact that the deal was struck even before Pfizer's pill has been authorized anywhere could help to end the pandemic quicker.
Under the terms of the agreement, Pfizer will not receive royalties on sales in low-income countries, and will waive royalties on sales in all countries covered by the agreement while COVID-19 remains a public health emergency.
Earlier this month, Pfizer said its clinical trial showed the pill cut the risk of hospitalization and death by between 85 and 89 per cent in people with mild to moderate coronavirus infections, if taken within three to five days of symptom onset.
In a similar deal with the Medicines Patent Pool announced in October, Merck agreed to let other drugmakers make its COVID-19 pill, molnupiravir, available in 105 poorer countries.
Fewer than one per cent of Pfizer's COVID-19 shots have gone to poorer countries.
Pfizer Inc. has signed a deal with a UN-backed group to allow other manufacturers to make its experimental COVID-19 antiviral pill, a move that could make the treatment available to more than half of the world's population.
In a statement issued Tuesday, Pfizer said it would grant a licence for the antiviral pill to the Geneva-based Medicines Patent Pool, which would let generic drug companies produce the pill for use in 95 countries, making up about 53 per cent of the world's population.
The deal excludes some large countries that have suffered devastating coronavirus outbreaks. For example, while a Brazilian drug company could get a licence to make the pill for export to other countries, the medicine could not be made generically for use in Brazil.
Still, health officials said the fact that the deal was struck even before Pfizer's pill has been authorized anywhere could help to end the pandemic quicker.
Under the terms of the agreement, Pfizer will not receive royalties on sales in low-income countries, and will waive royalties on sales in all countries covered by the agreement while COVID-19 remains a public health emergency.
Earlier this month, Pfizer said its clinical trial showed the pill cut the risk of hospitalization and death by between 85 and 89 per cent in people with mild to moderate coronavirus infections, if taken within three to five days of symptom onset.
In a similar deal with the Medicines Patent Pool announced in October, Merck agreed to let other drugmakers make its COVID-19 pill, molnupiravir, available in 105 poorer countries.
Fewer than one per cent of Pfizer's COVID-19 shots have gone to poorer countries.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Could it be that you are making the mistake of assuming most people are like you? Would you ever vote for Trump? About 47% of voters did. I don't think they are anything like me and yes, I blame them for Trump. I don't accept blame. None.
We have a large tribe of right wing authoritarians and a larger collective of mostly liberals and social democrats with a few left or centrist authoritarians mixed in. Fascists, right wing authortarian white supremacists, are trying to force their will on the majority. There is no compromising with them.
Racism is learned, we aren't born racist. Still though racism is prevalent in all economic groups of white people. This is a struggle, not a debate or even a case of lack of education. It's a class struggle between wealthier, white male dominated class that has long held power and most everybody else. Trump's followers are right wing authoritarians. They compartmentalize beliefs that contradict rather than try to learn from the contradictions. It's a different way of thinking. I think they want to be suppressed. They want to be told what to do. That's what make them authoritarians.
This isn't just something I cooked up on my own. There has been quite a bit of research on the topic.
Trump’s America and the rise of the authoritarian personality
After World War II, psychologists identified character traits that explained why so many people were complicit in Hitler’s crimes. Are we seeing something similar now?
theconversation.com
In the early 1980s, Bob Altemeyer, a professor at the University of Manitoba, refined the work with the F-scale and came up with a new definition of the authoritarian personality. Altemeyer renamed the authoritarian personality “right-wing authoritarianism” (RWA) and defined it as having three related dimensions. These were: a submission towards authorities, endorsement of aggressive behaviour if sanctioned by authorities, and a high level of conventionalism – that is conforming to old traditions and values.
Among antisocial traits and attitudes investigated in psychology, RWA definitely ranks high up the naughty list. Right-wing authoritarians are, for example, more racist, more discriminatory, more aggressive, more dehumanising, more prejudiced and more sexist than individuals with low RWA. They are also less empathic or altruistic. Another downside is that they tend to think less critically, instead basing their thoughts on what authority figures say and do.
Regarding education, some studies show Right wing authortarians are terrible at correcting false belief:
Right-wing authoritarians are less likely to update false beliefs after corrective feedback, study finds
New research has found that right-wing authoritarians tend to be less successful at correcting erroneous beliefs than others. The study, published in
www.psypost.org
HGCC
Well-Known Member
What makes those people fundamentally different though? (Idk, that's why I point at education, it's much a much broader issue but eh, that's the easy one). You are right, trump would never be an option and it was kind of appalling seeing people vote for him. Going to ignore that he dog whistled racism and such, I am thinking of the voters that saw him as a successful businessman and thought we needed some of that. That was stupid. Trump was obviously a dumb twat who inherited a bunch of money, why did like 47% of people believe that. Things can't get better until we get those folks on board, or remove them.Could it be that you are making the mistake of assuming most people are like you? Would you ever vote for Trump? About 47% of voters did. I don't think they are anything like me and yes, I blame them for Trump. I don't accept blame. None.
We have a large tribe of right wing authoritarians and a larger collective of mostly liberals and social democrats with a few left or centrist authoritarians mixed in. Fascists, right wing authortarian white supremacists, are trying to force their will on the majority. There is no compromising with them.
Racism is learned, we aren't born racist. Still though racism is prevalent in all economic groups of white people. This is a struggle, not a debate or even a case of lack of education. It's a class struggle between wealthier, white male dominated class that has long held power and most everybody else. Trump's followers are right wing authoritarians. They compartmentalize beliefs that contradict rather than try to learn from the contradictions. It's a different way of thinking. I think they want to be suppressed. They want to be told what to do. That's what make them authoritarians.
This isn't just something I cooked up on my own. There has been quite a bit of research on the topic.
Trump’s America and the rise of the authoritarian personality
After World War II, psychologists identified character traits that explained why so many people were complicit in Hitler’s crimes. Are we seeing something similar now?
In the early 1980s, Bob Altemeyer, a professor at the University of Manitoba, refined the work with the F-scale and came up with a new definition of the authoritarian personality. Altemeyer renamed the authoritarian personality “right-wing authoritarianism” (RWA) and defined it as having three related dimensions. These were: a submission towards authorities, endorsement of aggressive behaviour if sanctioned by authorities, and a high level of conventionalism – that is conforming to old traditions and values.
Among antisocial traits and attitudes investigated in psychology, RWA definitely ranks high up the naughty list. Right-wing authoritarians are, for example, more racist, more discriminatory, more aggressive, more dehumanising, more prejudiced and more sexist than individuals with low RWA. They are also less empathic or altruistic. Another downside is that they tend to think less critically, instead basing their thoughts on what authority figures say and do.
Regarding education, some studies show Right wing authortarians are terrible at correcting false belief:
Right-wing authoritarians are less likely to update false beliefs after corrective feedback, study finds
New research has found that right-wing authoritarians tend to be less successful at correcting erroneous beliefs than others. The study, published inwww.psypost.org
Edit: I remember people arguing W was smart because he went to Harvard. That had the same sort of effect where I really didn't understand how you could come to that conclusion if you were aware of the family history and who they were and how the world works.
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
hanimmal
Well-Known Member
There is a angle to this discussion that I think is worth considering with a little self evaluation(? IDK, not sure how to word it).
I have plenty to take blame for with the current state of our nation's issues at varying levels.
I really no longer eat meat, but I did for a long time, which means I voted with my dollars to support the fast for industries and meat producers that torture animals. Not to mention the food I do eat from the farms that use poor land management techniques that have caused so much fertilizer to work it's way into the water sources hammering animal populations.
I also never stopped driving, so I am as much to blame as the next (non-renewable industry profiting job holding) person. So the current climate crisis that we are in I take some of that blame in. Same with the use of our home's drains that carry all those soaps and detergents (as I am currently washing cloths) that I dump down that lead to more toxins entering the environment. I currently have the heat on that is burning propane. Running electricity to my fridge, tv, computer, etc.
On and on.
Shit I even enjoyed watching 'the Apprentice' the first couple years it was on, which added to the viewership of Trump's game show.
So while I tried to warn as many people as possible of the dangers of the racist platform that Trump ran on, and my current bullshit crusade to do my part to battle the online extremist spam that is still radicalizing our citizens, I can see how my actions have done their part to get us to where we are as a nation and world today.
Fuck Trump and all his evil minions that are trying to destroy everything we hold dear.
I have plenty to take blame for with the current state of our nation's issues at varying levels.
I really no longer eat meat, but I did for a long time, which means I voted with my dollars to support the fast for industries and meat producers that torture animals. Not to mention the food I do eat from the farms that use poor land management techniques that have caused so much fertilizer to work it's way into the water sources hammering animal populations.
I also never stopped driving, so I am as much to blame as the next (non-renewable industry profiting job holding) person. So the current climate crisis that we are in I take some of that blame in. Same with the use of our home's drains that carry all those soaps and detergents (as I am currently washing cloths) that I dump down that lead to more toxins entering the environment. I currently have the heat on that is burning propane. Running electricity to my fridge, tv, computer, etc.
On and on.
Shit I even enjoyed watching 'the Apprentice' the first couple years it was on, which added to the viewership of Trump's game show.
So while I tried to warn as many people as possible of the dangers of the racist platform that Trump ran on, and my current bullshit crusade to do my part to battle the online extremist spam that is still radicalizing our citizens, I can see how my actions have done their part to get us to where we are as a nation and world today.
Fuck Trump and all his evil minions that are trying to destroy everything we hold dear.
Last edited:
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
trump getting in was our fault...what everyone else on the planet did with him is on them...we have no liability for the stupidity of other world leaders
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
make luke satisfied that he made some bad muricans cry?
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
I am moved to ask: what is a centrist authoritarian?Could it be that you are making the mistake of assuming most people are like you? Would you ever vote for Trump? About 47% of voters did. I don't think they are anything like me and yes, I blame them for Trump. I don't accept blame. None.
We have a large tribe of right wing authoritarians and a larger collective of mostly liberals and social democrats with a few left or centrist authoritarians mixed in. Fascists, right wing authortarian white supremacists, are trying to force their will on the majority. There is no compromising with them.
Racism is learned, we aren't born racist. Still though racism is prevalent in all economic groups of white people. This is a struggle, not a debate or even a case of lack of education. It's a class struggle between wealthier, white male dominated class that has long held power and most everybody else. Trump's followers are right wing authoritarians. They compartmentalize beliefs that contradict rather than try to learn from the contradictions. It's a different way of thinking. I think they want to be suppressed. They want to be told what to do. That's what make them authoritarians.
This isn't just something I cooked up on my own. There has been quite a bit of research on the topic.
Trump’s America and the rise of the authoritarian personality
After World War II, psychologists identified character traits that explained why so many people were complicit in Hitler’s crimes. Are we seeing something similar now?
In the early 1980s, Bob Altemeyer, a professor at the University of Manitoba, refined the work with the F-scale and came up with a new definition of the authoritarian personality. Altemeyer renamed the authoritarian personality “right-wing authoritarianism” (RWA) and defined it as having three related dimensions. These were: a submission towards authorities, endorsement of aggressive behaviour if sanctioned by authorities, and a high level of conventionalism – that is conforming to old traditions and values.
Among antisocial traits and attitudes investigated in psychology, RWA definitely ranks high up the naughty list. Right-wing authoritarians are, for example, more racist, more discriminatory, more aggressive, more dehumanising, more prejudiced and more sexist than individuals with low RWA. They are also less empathic or altruistic. Another downside is that they tend to think less critically, instead basing their thoughts on what authority figures say and do.
Regarding education, some studies show Right wing authortarians are terrible at correcting false belief:
Right-wing authoritarians are less likely to update false beliefs after corrective feedback, study finds
New research has found that right-wing authoritarians tend to be less successful at correcting erroneous beliefs than others. The study, published inwww.psypost.org
printer
Well-Known Member
I eat meat but if you average out the cost, under $1 a day, probably half that. My 2016 car does not have 19k km on it yet. Heat the house but planted cedars with some mulch, rock and gravel taking the place of grass. I have not watered the plants in over 15 years. Power, we are lucky here we generate it with falling water. They are talking export shortfall because of the drought. May have to pay more for it, oh well.
Trump, I told the people at work what he was before he was elected, without being checked he will take the US on a Nazi Germany route. Still time to prove me right, I hope I am wrong. I will not bet money on it. If covid did not hit I think he would have. Take your silver lining where you can. In 2001 I said China will become as industrialized as the West (Did not factor in India), one guy at work said we can not let them as the world can not sustain them having our standard of living. Told him there was nothing we could do about it short of going to war with them.
I have been on some Right leaning forums trying to give a more truthful view of events, up to the election where TRUMP LOST (for any idiots here). I left them with the believe the election was stolen, he was out of office, I had hope and no hope for those on those sites. Had more hope for Biden, oh well.
Trump, I told the people at work what he was before he was elected, without being checked he will take the US on a Nazi Germany route. Still time to prove me right, I hope I am wrong. I will not bet money on it. If covid did not hit I think he would have. Take your silver lining where you can. In 2001 I said China will become as industrialized as the West (Did not factor in India), one guy at work said we can not let them as the world can not sustain them having our standard of living. Told him there was nothing we could do about it short of going to war with them.
I have been on some Right leaning forums trying to give a more truthful view of events, up to the election where TRUMP LOST (for any idiots here). I left them with the believe the election was stolen, he was out of office, I had hope and no hope for those on those sites. Had more hope for Biden, oh well.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
DIY posted a link to a way of looking at stupid people as ones who do harm to themselves and other people, rather than education or ability.
In that model, Trump fits the definition of a bandit -- somebody who harms others and benefits himself. He leads stupid people into doing harm for him but also harming themselves to no real benefit. which makes him the most dangerous type of leader.
The Jan 6 rioters, for instance. Stupid
Trump: Bandit leading the stupids.
It doesn't really help inform what to do, so not a very useful theory, just a different way to look at it. I have no idea why people follow fascist leaders but I do accept that they do.
injinji
Well-Known Member
You are at least half right. I think it's genetics.
printer
Well-Known Member
Fascist leaders always use blame and fear to gain power. Hitler used the punishing terms of WWI and Jews in wealthy positions as reasons to take over. The country of the German People is being taken from Real Germans. The leaders are not fascist, they just want to make things right.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I was referring to socially centrist and politically authoritarian people Various political parties in the UK are shown in the matrix below:
By their standards, the BNP would be centrist socially and authoritarian politically.
Wikipedia says they are far right, and they are politically but they support both right and left social policies.
The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right, fascist political party in the United Kingdom. It is headquartered in Wigton, Cumbria, and its current leader is Adam Walker. A minor party, it has no elected representatives at any level of UK government. Founded in 1982, the party reached its greatest level of success in the 2000s, when it had over fifty seats in local government, one seat on the London Assembly, and two Members of the European Parliament.
Here's another one showing famous political leaders:
Hitler was a social centrist and a raging fascist/authoritarian. According to this way of dividing people. It's not very rigorous and not very useful but you asked and that's what I meant when I said "centrist authoritarian".
CatHedral
Well-Known Member
Thank you, will digest.
- Status