Selecting clones: Balancing desired multiple strain plant # goals with overall product uniformity yield/quality goals

[Apostatize]

After you've selected phenos, and while you're cloning, does it make a significant difference whether you're taking clones from lower branches that may be under-developed from not getting enough light; or a cut from a plant that stretched? I suppose they don't all get a fresh start, clones probably have baggage (including any infestation the mother/donor has (e.g., spider mites)).

Do you continue to make exclusions from among plants of the pheno you selected? It makes sense that you would, you're selecting healthy plants. It's just that, while you're cloning for yield/quality, you're also considering the total # of plants to bloom at any given time; so if you're running a handful of strains, you may be in a better position to be selective after you've reached your desired plant #s. I don't know if that makes sense, it's the balance I'm struggling with now.

But if it's a waste of time to continue particular cuts/selections, tell me now (otherwise, it looks like several more months of wait & see). Thanks.

...

Also, plants shaped weird ... currently, I'm using them as "fillers" to give selected plants more time to veg.

 

[mudballs]

I take only lower branches for clones, i want my upper branches to fully flower out and give me the best representation of that plant.
Underdeveloped doesn't matter to me for cloning long as i have 3 nodes on it.
Not sure i fully understood your question to behonest.

 

[Herb & Suds]

Which cut to take?
I run perpetual but I need a filler or two after a quick veg I will crop of the entire top of a plant so I can get it flipped sooner
But as a rule most clippings come from lower branches when I have time to veg
And I’m still left with a shorter mother for the next run
I also like to lollipop before flipping so I get a lot of clippings then as well

 

[Apostatize]

I take only lower branches for clones, i want my upper branches to fully flower out and give me the best representation of that plant.
Underdeveloped doesn't matter to me for cloning long as i have 3 nodes on it.
Not sure i fully understood your question to behonest.

Thanks. Assuming one phenotype, will clones have different outcomes that you can select against? In other words, is there a practical reason to select further, after you've already isolated a pheno/seed line? I can see it being used to really focus on particular traits, but clones are supposed to have identical/very similar genetics ... so unless I'm choosing between healthy and not healthy/infested, beyond that don't worry about it -- just get the healthy clone count up over time.

Why it's even an issue is that the strain I want to run the most plants of doesn't produce offshoot/side branches as rapidly as my # 2 & 4 strains. So, it's not happening as fast as I want it to. Pushing my timeline back, wanted to avoid unnecessarily wasting more time. Should've pushed this strain earlier but had, until recently, not been super impressed by it. Then I dried it correctly. Now, it's my best! So it goes.

 

[mudballs]

Thanks. Assuming one phenotype, will clones have different outcomes that you can select against? In other words, is there a practical reason to select further, after you've already isolated a pheno/seed line? I can see it being used to really focus on particular traits, but clones are supposed to have identical/very similar genetics ... so unless I'm choosing between healthy and not healthy/infested, beyond that don't worry about it -- just get the healthy clone count up over time.

Why it's even an issue is that the strain I want to run the most plants of doesn't produce offshoot/side branches as rapidly as my # 2 & 4 strains. So, it's not happening as fast as I want it to. Pushing my timeline back, wanted to avoid unnecessarily wasting more time. Should've pushed this strain earlier but had, until recently, not been super impressed by it. Then I dried it correctly. Now, it's my best! So it goes.

Yes i see your circumstances as i reject those phenos with high prejudice. Gotta make more mothers of same strain, i can't think of any other workaround. You could try combining LST in with your grow timeline and see if that unlocks some leeway in the schedules.

 

[Apostatize]

Yes i see your circumstances as i reject those phenos with high prejudice. Gotta make more mothers of same strain, i can't think of any other workaround. You could try combining LST in with your grow timeline and see if that unlocks some leeway in the schedules.

perpetual. veg maturity #s are like the most important part about running perpetual bloom well. regardless how many plants are maturing in veg, on the back burner my seedling/young clone station is two 2x4' shelves, divided among 5, eventually 4 strains. At all times, I'm trying to keep 20 young cuts of my # 1 & 2 strains, and 10 each of the others. No mother, just cut as I go. That's easy (sort of), the # in maturity is the challenge.

strain bloom priorities
1: 9 plants
2: 6-8 plants
3, 4: 2-3 plants each.

 

[mudballs]

Why it's even an issue is that the strain I want to run the most plants of doesn't produce offshoot/side branches as rapidly as my # 2 & 4

I'm saying LST the troublemaker pheno and see if that gives you more cuttings faster, isn't that what you want? It adds time to that strains grow timeline, but you calc it, then modify the other strains start/veg time cuttings to coincide with the troublemaker phenos cuttings(which should have more viable cuttings). You gotta change something somewhere, either ur numbers of each strain or start times i would think.

 

[Apostatize]

Why it's even an issue is that the strain I want to run the most plants of doesn't produce offshoot/side branches as rapidly as my # 2 & 4

isn't that what you want?

Yes, thanks. LST helps, I'm starting from a disproportionate # of a particular strain and it's annoying. I want more of it. #s are easier to manage once established. Adding myco to my nute schedule soon -- i have it and something else, just haven't incorporated them yet. I mention it just because, aside from clone #s, the occasional veg plant that burns/shocked/stunted from defoliating/cloning/switching from early to late veg doesn't help. I'm hoping myco acts like a buffer to reduce the amount of time I have to wait for veg plants to recuperate. Affects #s, bloom readiness. Still get surprised by shock occasionally, I hate that.

 

[Milky Weed]

Yes, thanks. LST helps, I'm starting from a disproportionate # of a particular strain and it's annoying. I want more of it. #s are easier to manage once established. Adding myco to my nute schedule soon -- i have it and something else, just haven't incorporated them yet. I mention it just because, aside from clone #s, the occasional veg plant that burns/shocked/stunted from defoliating/cloning/switching from early to late veg doesn't help. I'm hoping myco acts like a buffer to reduce the amount of time I have to wait for veg plants to recuperate. Affects #s, bloom readiness. Still get surprised by shock occasionally, I hate that.

Are you asking if you can get different phenos from one mother plant? Because I’m curious about this too.
I would assume no though, whole reason to clone is to copy that plants pheno.

 

[Apostatize]

Are you asking if you can get different phenos from one mother plant? Because I’m curious about this too.
I would assume no though, whole reason to clone is to copy that plants pheno.

Not necessarily different phenos; more like, would selecting from certain plants/locations yield more, grow more robustly? Cloning, in part, for consistency.

 

[Milky Weed]

Not necessarily different phenos; more like, would selecting from certain plants/locations yield more, grow more robustly? Cloning, in part, for consistency.

Ive seen a lot of variation In the sizes of clones people take. Generally I believe the bigger the cut you take, the more overall energy is has. A 1ft cut “should” grow faster than a 6 incher and possibly be more robust/durable.

It also comes down to space and plant count. If your doing 60 clones, your not going to be able to take huge cuts off the mother’s unless you have quite a stock.

i am still noob but these are my thoughts on it.

 

[Apostatize]

Ive seen a lot of variation In the sizes of clones people take. Generally I believe the bigger the cut you take, the more overall energy is has. A 1ft cut “should” grow faster than a 6 incher and possibly be more robust/durable.

It also comes down to space and plant count. If your doing 60 clones, your not going to be able to take huge cuts off the mother’s unless you have quite a stock.

i am still noob but these are my thoughts on it.

Agreed. Using rockwool. I'd prefer to stick larger clones directly into 6 or 8" cubes, depending on strain. I don't use 4" cubes with a starter plug in them anymore (wasteful), but I do use a 3x3x2.5" cube for lots of smaller cuts. I figure, once I get #s established, I can slow down and take larger cuts, still using some smaller cuts for bench depth.

 

[buckaclark]

Not sure if applicable ,but someone posted a study here that spoke of clones taken from tops were more desirable.But cant remember the reasoning .

 

[BlandMeow]

They are genetically the same. If the cloning process somehow causes stress it could impact the growth of that plant, but it wouldn't be genetically different.

 

[buckaclark]

They are genetically the same. If the cloning process somehow causes stress it could impact the growth of that plant, but it wouldn't be genetically different.

No doubt genetically,It was something about composition ,Auxins or whatnot.I more remember the reply to the poster saying it was a good reason to take clones from the top.

 

[Milky Weed]

Study: Selecting Clones from the top most of your mother can cause Genetic 'drift'

Accumulation of somatic mutations leads to genetic mosaicism in cannabis Abstract Cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) is typically propagated using stem cuttings taken from mother plants to produce genetically uniform propagules. However, producers anecdotally report that clonal lines deteriorate...

www.rollitup.org

 

[Apostatize]

Study: Selecting Clones from the top most of your mother can cause Genetic 'drift'

Accumulation of somatic mutations leads to genetic mosaicism in cannabis Abstract Cannabis (Cannabis sativa L.) is typically propagated using stem cuttings taken from mother plants to produce genetically uniform propagules. However, producers anecdotally report that clonal lines deteriorate...

www.rollitup.org

I like the focus of the article, I'm not sure what it tells us.

Looks like they used a 20-gallon pot and cut clone samples from a single 1.5-year-old plant. Is there enough time for the disparity in mutations to occur if you're vegging for 4 months or less?

Am I reading this wrong? I took away 2 things:
1) don't clone from the top,
2) your flowers have genetic diversity (they are the top).

Click HERE for study.

 

[BlandMeow]

I was always told to clone from the bottom of the plant.

 

[buckaclark]

I like the focus of the article, I'm not sure what it tells us.

Looks like they used a 20-gallon pot and cut clone samples from a single 1.5-year-old plant. Is there enough time for the disparity in mutations to occur if you're vegging for 4 months or less?

Am I reading this wrong? I took away 2 things:
1) don't clone from the top,
2) your flowers have genetic diversity (they are the top).

Click HERE for study.

View attachment 5046030

So yes,More potential mutations from the top as i read it.

 

[buckaclark]

@mudballs Did you post a study about a week or two ago regarding mother plant/clone location.