Another gun thread

[CatHedral]

this is a different time, a different society, than when the constitution was written. they had no idea what this country would evolve into. weapons were single shot, someone well practiced might be able to get off a round every 45 seconds or so. there was no chance of a mass shooting, unless you were shooting catatonic paraplegics...
i have no idea what they would have said differently if they had known what was coming, but i'm sure they would have said something different than what they did.
the constitution calls for a well regulated militia, because at that time, there was no easy, fast way for armies to travel, and outlying towns and villages had to be able to protect themselves until help could arrive, if it was coming at all. it's too bad they were so vague with the terminology...a " well regulated militia" to some means a body akin to the national guard, to be called out in emergency, and commanded by "officers" they all knew and respected. to others, it can mean a bunch of fat old assholes who may or may not have had military training 20+ years ago, and who get together once a month to shoot each other with paint balls and then talk about what they'll do to the jews, blacks, hispanics, and gays once they're finally in charge.
i tend to lean towards the "national guard" scenario...

Back in the day “well-regulated” meant “correctly sighted in and can hit point of aim”.
E.g. a well-regulated timepiece shows the time with a small and maybe calculable error.

 

[doublejj]

I don't eat snake so I don't kill them. Snakes are a natural form of rodent control on our farm..

 

[canndo]

One afternoon I got a call from my daughter. She was working at a mall in the DC area. "Dad, there is shooting, my boss doesn't know what to do, tell me"

She was working on the 2nd floor, an irate boyfriend of some mall creature decided that his true love and her dalliance and her dalliances buddy needed to die down stairs.

Because it was "only" three people it was not a mass shooting even though everyone in the mall was locked down the whole day.

I had no idea what to tell her other than to stay under her table...

Point is..this is unstoppable in the United states. The boyfriend had a legal lawful weapon. He passed every background check. He just got mad. No one is ever going to stop this stuff. Let's not pretend there is a solution in standard laws, red flag laws, checks, metal detectors, gun free zones, registration, consistent state by state laws. What will change thongs is nothing less than a jarring cultural shift.

A sudden appreciation of life that we, the folks that really don't see life as valuable, the folks that think the old should throw themselves away for the good of the economy are unlikely to aquire.

 

[Fogdog]

Here is the sad news. America has its individual rights balanced upon the backs of minorities and the lives of children.

We call it collateral damage. We have our freedoms at the cost of the lives of the unwilling and unaware. Want your right to travel? Gonna cost the poor their land for highways. Want that iPhone? Children are going to be slaves. Want that nice blend of art, chemistry, metallurgy, mechanics and ballistics you can wear at your side?
Its going to be at the expense of Henrietta, the bright promising student who got caught in the crossfire.

That is all nice but with that and 4 bucks I can buy a cup of joe from Starbucks.

I don't much care to argue the minutia with people committed to gun love. So I stick to stating an objective that is worthwhile and doable. We can figure it out if enough people want the same thing.

 

[Fogdog]

One afternoon I got a call from my daughter. She was working at a mall in the DC area. "Dad, there is shooting, my boss doesn't know what to do, tell me"

She was working on the 2nd floor, an irate boyfriend of some mall creature decided that his true love and her dalliance and her dalliances buddy needed to die down stairs.

Because it was "only" three people it was not a mass shooting even though everyone in the mall was locked down the whole day.

I had no idea what to tell her other than to stay under her table...

Point is..this is unstoppable in the United states. The boyfriend had a legal lawful weapon. He passed every background check. He just got mad. No one is ever going to stop this stuff. Let's not pretend there is a solution in standard laws, red flag laws, checks, metal detectors, gun free zones, registration, consistent state by state laws. What will change thongs is nothing less than a jarring cultural shift.

A sudden appreciation of life that we, the folks that really don't see life as valuable, the folks that think the old should throw themselves away for the good of the economy are unlikely to aquire.

Gun homicide rates in other countries are low. The US isn't that different. I just want the gun homicide rate in the US to be as low as in those countries. It is do-able and worthwhile.

Not now, but the time is coming when enough people are fed up with the carnage. We'll get shit done then.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

We can figure it out if enough people want the same thing.

there's not enough people wanting the same thing...i doubt if any two of us participating in this thread want the same thing, we all have our own ideas of whats best and whats sub optimal but still acceptable, and whats just down right out of the question.
i personally would crack down quite a bit on background checks, person to person sales, and "constitutional carry"...some of you are going to think that's a good start, but still leaves a lot to be done, and some others are going to think i'm a fascist asshole trying to infringe on their rights...

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Not now, but the time is coming when enough people are fed up with the carnage. We'll get shit done then.

i'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but do you maybe have a time frame for this peaceful revolution? cause it's not on my calendar no matter how far into the future i look

 

[Fogdog]

there's not enough people wanting the same thing...i doubt if any two of us participating in this thread want the same thing, we all have our own ideas of whats best and whats sub optimal but still acceptable, and whats just down right out of the question.
i personally would crack down quite a bit on background checks, person to person sales, and "constitutional carry"...some of you are going to think that's a good start, but still leaves a lot to be done, and some others are going to think i'm a fascist asshole trying to infringe on their rights...

Not today. We don't have enough people today. if that's your point then I have no disagreement.

 

[Fogdog]

i'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but do you maybe have a time frame for this peaceful revolution? cause it's not on my calendar no matter how far into the future i look

give it about ten years.

demographics are changing.

 

[canndo]

Not trying to start an argument...I guess I’m too late anyway. But the inbred/Banjo/Deliverance references are just as closed minded and unsophisticated as the culture you are trying to project on the fella from down south.
I live in the south, value and agree with many of the traditions he is mentioning. I hope you are a young person so there is still time and hope to gain some much needed wisdom and insight.
I’d be willing to bet that he has no problem with the way you live your life. He may not agree but as long as it’s not causing him any trouble he isn’t gonna be critical or try to change it. You should be willing to give him the same respect. When I say “you” I really mean the far left liberals.....really far left. Obviously if someone is posting on this sight they have somewhat of a liberal belief system in place.....I mean we are all growing this beautiful flower that god created for our use.....I opened my mind enough to look past the fact that my parents called it “that dope”....and considered it no different than heroine or cocaine.
The entire issue of gun violence and anti gun movement is bolstered by exponentially high murder numbers in mostly larger cities, by gang culture, and is largely same race killing same race.
These cities happen to have the strictest gun laws in the country. I’m not saying that more lenient rules in these places would improve things but infringing on the law abiding is not the answer either.
Many fine people use guns to fill their freezers or shoot for sport at sporting clays or long range targets. Stripping away the means to these activities helps no one and shows the same type of closed mindedness as the pig squeezing/sister banging references. Plus his sister might be hot!!! Lol

Here it is again.

Have a discussion, a real discussion about the realities of guns and gun culture in the United states and we quickly arrive at urban vs rural, "cold dead fingers" and somehow, indictments of black people.

Essentially, that argument is "black people kill more black people than we kill black people so what's your problem".

"When I say “you” I really mean the far left liberals.....really far left. "

Well sir, that would be me. You have a problem with me.

"Gang culture "? OK, we should ignore white nationalists, the Aryan nation, proud bois and pretty much every organization that showed up on Jan 6th. Cause the problem is really with blm and the inner city black people who just can't seem to ever catch a break.

"infringing on the law abiding " here it is, "when they make guns illegal only the lawbreakers will carry". Not a single one of the hundreds (or thousands if you count my posts on revitalization, Facebook, quora and the like) of gun owners I have communicated with have ever agreed that they would surrender their weapons if those weapons were rendered illegal. That means that they are all perfectly willing to become other than law abiding.

It's interesting that we are on a site that advocates activities that remain, in much of the south, illegal, while claiming to be "law abiding".

Oh, and that dope really is "no different than heroin or cocaine" smoke concentrates? I detest the notion that ones drug use is somehow superior to another's.

 

[CatHedral]

Here it is again.

Have a discussion, a real discussion about the realities of guns and gun culture in the United states and we quickly arrive at urban vs rural, "cold dead fingers" and somehow, indictments of black people.

Essentially, that argument is "black people kill more black people than we kill black people so what's your problem".

"When I say “you” I really mean the far left liberals.....really far left. "

Well sir, that would be me. You have a problem with me.

"Gang culture "? OK, we should ignore white nationalists, the Aryan nation, proud bois and pretty much every organization that showed up on Jan 6th. Cause the problem is really with blm and the inner city black people who just can't seem to ever catch a break.

"infringing on the law abiding " here it is, "when they make guns illegal only the lawbreakers will carry". Not a single one of the hundreds (or thousands if you count my posts on revitalization, Facebook, quora and the like) of gun owners I have communicated with have ever agreed that they would surrender their weapons if those weapons were rendered illegal. That means that they are all perfectly willing to become other than law abiding.

It's interesting that we are on a site that advocates activities that remain, in much of the south, illegal, while claiming to be "law abiding".

Oh, and that dope really is "no different than heroin or cocaine" smoke concentrates? I detest the notion that ones drug use is somehow superior to another's.

I would surrender mine, were that to come to pass.
Actually, if I had reasonable expectation of such a legal event, I’d try to sell them. Tag you’re it

 

[Fogdog]

Well Im 61 Got alot of wisdom.And could care less about politics. If your from the south then your the same thing.But agree with most of it..Just dont like people think guns kill.

lulz

wisdom? Does not register in your posts. For example, you say that a person in NY City should live as you do. When asked, you can't explain yourself.

Not wise. I'm not referring to your inability to punctuate. Or the laughably stereotypical "guns don't kill people" line of argument. Just, you project your rural life onto people who live in a very different culture. Not wise. The opposite, actually.

 

[CatHedral]

Here it is again.

Have a discussion, a real discussion about the realities of guns and gun culture in the United states and we quickly arrive at urban vs rural, "cold dead fingers" and somehow, indictments of black people.

Essentially, that argument is "black people kill more black people than we kill black people so what's your problem".

"When I say “you” I really mean the far left liberals.....really far left. "

Well sir, that would be me. You have a problem with me.

"Gang culture "? OK, we should ignore white nationalists, the Aryan nation, proud bois and pretty much every organization that showed up on Jan 6th. Cause the problem is really with blm and the inner city black people who just can't seem to ever catch a break.

"infringing on the law abiding " here it is, "when they make guns illegal only the lawbreakers will carry". Not a single one of the hundreds (or thousands if you count my posts on revitalization, Facebook, quora and the like) of gun owners I have communicated with have ever agreed that they would surrender their weapons if those weapons were rendered illegal. That means that they are all perfectly willing to become other than law abiding.

It's interesting that we are on a site that advocates activities that remain, in much of the south, illegal, while claiming to be "law abiding".

Oh, and that dope really is "no different than heroin or cocaine" smoke concentrates? I detest the notion that ones drug use is somehow superior to another's.

I must comment on that last sentence. I have spent time in the presence of wine snobs. Double word score: wine snobs arguing over cigars. Coffee and tea drinkers reportedly have their own arcane hierarchies of virtue. I think that to an extent, this is a basic human trait being expressed.

 

[Fogdog]

Not trying to start an argument...I guess I’m too late anyway. But the inbred/Banjo/Deliverance references are just as closed minded and unsophisticated as the culture you are trying to project on the fella from down south.
I live in the south, value and agree with many of the traditions he is mentioning. I hope you are a young person so there is still time and hope to gain some much needed wisdom and insight.
I’d be willing to bet that he has no problem with the way you live your life. He may not agree but as long as it’s not causing him any trouble he isn’t gonna be critical or try to change it. You should be willing to give him the same respect. When I say “you” I really mean the far left liberals.....really far left. Obviously if someone is posting on this sight they have somewhat of a liberal belief system in place.....I mean we are all growing this beautiful flower that god created for our use.....I opened my mind enough to look past the fact that my parents called it “that dope”....and considered it no different than heroine or cocaine.
The entire issue of gun violence and anti gun movement is bolstered by exponentially high murder numbers in mostly larger cities, by gang culture, and is largely same race killing same race.
These cities happen to have the strictest gun laws in the country. I’m not saying that more lenient rules in these places would improve things but infringing on the law abiding is not the answer either.
Many fine people use guns to fill their freezers or shoot for sport at sporting clays or long range targets. Stripping away the means to these activities helps no one and shows the same type of closed mindedness as the pig squeezing/sister banging references. Plus his sister might be hot!!! Lol

fewer people hunt today compared to your father's generation but many more guns were sold.

So, that appeal to emotion "fill muh freezuh" is a very appealing argument but false nonetheless.

 

[canndo]

Nobody needs a car, nobody needs weed, nobody needs the internet. Telling people what they need, especially in the US, shows a poor understanding of the US.

See...that's the problem. We CANT issue rights that depend on what people need.

No one needs a 300 ft yacht. No one needs a space ship, no one needs..caviar, no one needs servants.

But what if one persons...needs, impinges on another's? Then what? She needs an abortion. He needs a place to live, they need enough food. We need for our child to not be shot. They need health care.

I figure we should prioritize need from the ground up but


I got no answers.

 

[canndo]

I must comment on that last sentence. I have spent time in the presence of wine snobs. Double word score: wine snobs arguing over cigars. Coffee and tea drinkers reportedly have their own arcane hierarchies of virtue. I think that to an extent, this is a basic human trait being expressed.

Wine snobs rarely complain that the pouring and drinking of merlot is somehow immoral or indicates a character flaw.

"Yeah, I smoke two grams of shatter a day but YOUR smoking that vial of crack means you steal from your grandma and can't possibly contain a single coherent thought in you addled brain pan."

 

[canndo]

It’s all about the culture....no other country has the diversity and disparity among its population.

Gotcha, but why is diversity automatically a liability? Why does a mixture of firearms and varied culture invariably lead to deadly violence?

What is this fear of other that we have bred into our culture?

 

[Coldnasty]

Wine snobs rarely complain that the pouring and drinking of merlot is somehow immoral or indicates a character flaw.

"Yeah, I smoke two grams of shatter a day but YOUR smoking that vial of crack means you steal from your grandma and can't possibly contain a single coherent thought in you addled brain pan."

lol 2 grams of shatter a day? Makes sense since you think people sell crack in vials lmao Not getting into grammar cuz I’m not that guy.

 

[canndo]

I live a long way from city Im just Counrty boy minding my own business...Dont care what happens there.....But right now i have a deer to skin out..

A place to post another of my bits of outrage.

Urban vs rural.

This is the beginning of the 21st century. From now forward things are going to change, the automation and corporitization of Agriculture and mining is going to make the rural citizen more and more of a sad characterization of MA and PA kettle. They will be marginalized just as they have been in India and China.
Small farms are dying, Mines and mining have killed all miners, living outside of cities is and will for ever be a detriment.

The rural folk will be dependent upon the rights established and asserted only by those who live in cities. Their artificial inflated representation in our legislature will falter and fail as they resist the influence of their brethren who inhabit the cities.

They think they stand alone and magnificent in their rugged individualism.

But we see them sadly swept away in Virginia and Kansas. They actually believe their interests are different than those in the streets of Detroit and Philadelphia. They are no different.

 

[canndo]

lol 2 grams of shatter a day? Makes sense since you think people sell crack in vials lmao Not getting into grammar cuz I’m not that guy.

Please, correct my grammar. My point remains. There is no moral difference between one drug and another.

I am neither superior nor inferior based upon my substance of choice..