January 6th hearings on Trump's failed insurrection.

subwax

Well-Known Member
From the little I read about it, a lot of Brexit was more about xenophobia of non white Muslims moving into the country. The attack on the UK society was the same as it was here, amplifying the very worst events over and over again to stoke those nationalist feelings.
Not really aimed at Muslims, I don't think. There was a LOT of misinformation at the time, and the older folk who are not so aware of what is going used it as a reason to vote leave. From what I can see, the major reason was to take control of our own destiny, rather than being tied to European laws and rules. I think its just that the right wing elements jumped on it to start their own racist crusade.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
I remember having a conversation on Newsmax way before Trump's loss. A woman there considered herself not a racist but a good Christian. I did find her attitude racist and tried to point it out (she also has not heard of many news stories of events which were driving the news cycle). Eventually found out that the area she lived in drove all the blacks out a hundred years earlier and she never meets any other than white people in her day. I found that interesting.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Still want to die on that hill? OK, so give is specific example where a monoculture has been shown to be free from racism. I don't believe you.
Wouldn't hang out for his reply - they've generally not really worth the time it takes to read them. I do find myself questioning at what point he left school, if indeed he ever went to one.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
I remember having a conversation on Newsmax way before Trump's loss. A woman there considered herself not a racist but a good Christian. I did find her attitude racist and tried to point it out (she also has not heard of many news stories of events which were driving the news cycle). Eventually found out that the area she lived in drove all the blacks out a hundred years earlier and she never meets any other than white people in her day. I found that interesting.
And sad too. The rich tapestry of culture that might have been open to her, if only her mind was open enough to see it.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Democrats ... Republicans ... aren't they just the same shit, really.

We have Conservatives and Labour as our main parties - I wouldn't piss on either of them if they were on fire, A shower of shite, the lot of them. I literally do not know who to vote for in the next election. I'd prefer to vote for the bellend that is OG-KGP, more than any of our political parties.
Nope. There is a very large gap between what Republicans believe and want for this country compared to what Democrats aspire for.

I don't know what your view is regarding what happened last year in this country but I don't see Democrats lining up behind a demagogue like Trump.

 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Democrats ... Republicans ... aren't they just the same shit, really.

We have Conservatives and Labour as our main parties - I wouldn't piss on either of them if they were on fire, A shower of shite, the lot of them. I literally do not know who to vote for in the next election. I'd prefer to vote for the bellend that is OG-KGP, more than any of our political parties.
Considering the very different policy emphases by Conservatives and Labour, I find this to be an odd idea. Certainly not the case here, where only one of the two organizations is actively gnawing at our society.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
In the UK, mostly, we look at all politics as shite. In America, it seems normal to only have bad things to say about one party, and good about another. I don't get it - they are all as bad as each other.

Would I be correct in assuming you are a Republican? Please forgive my ignorance.

Getting Trump out of office was one of the best things I have seen happen Stateside for a long time. I care not for Republicans or Democrats, or any of our pathetic lot either, but to have a lying mysogynistic fool of a man who cared nothing for anyone else out of world politics was incredibly important.

It was a stark difference in public opinion between the state visit of Obama, who had crowds cheering him on in the thousands, everywhere he went, to when that fat idiot came over, when all we had were protests. He's got thick skin, I'll give him that, He had the piss taken out of him wherever he went. A guy made a ballomn that looked like Trump in a nappy, and followed Trumlp wherever he went, flying his balloon at every opportunity.

I remember leaving world to catch the tube to my train - as I walked down the stairs, I walked past a girl that was heading for another protest. She had a placard, on which where the big red letter - C * N T. I had to laugh.

OG-KGP - the * is a U - just to clear it up for you.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Considering the very different policy emphases by Conservatives and Labour, I find this to be an odd idea. Certainly not the case here, where only one of the two organizations is actively gnawing at our society.
Thing is - you say its one party, and someone else will say its the other. It seems crazy to me that you think one party is rubbish, yet your party is doing everything correct. That simply cannot be. Said with all respect.

The Conservatives are responsible for taking us out of Europe, and Labour took us to war due to weapons of mass destruction, that never existed.

They are all as shit as each other.
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
In the UK, mostly, we look at all politics as shite. In America, it seems normal to only have bad things to say about one party, and good about another. I don't get it - they are all as bad as each other.

Would I be correct in assuming you are a Republican? Please forgive my ignorance.

Getting Trump out of office was one of the best things I have seen happen Stateside for a long time. I care not for Republicans or Democrats, or any of our pathetic lot either, but to have a lying mysogynistic fool of a man who cared nothing for anyone else out of world politics was incredibly important.

It was a stark difference in public opinion between the state visit of Obama, who had crowds cheering him where he went, to when that fat idiot came over, when all we had were protests. He's got thick skin, I'll give him that, He had the piss taken out of him wherever he went. A guy made a ballomn that looked like Trump in a nappy, and followed Trumlp wherever he went, flying his balloon at every opportunity.
I was a Republican until I figured their game out.
If you have paid any attention to unbiased news from the States, the only way to assert that the two parties are the same sides of the same shite-coin is from ignorance or dishonesty.

The lies, the violence, the sedition are pure Republican deeds.
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
In the UK, mostly, we look at all politics as shite. In America, it seems normal to only have bad things to say about one party, and good about another. I don't get it - they are all as bad as each other.

Would I be correct in assuming you are a Republican? Please forgive my ignorance.

Getting Trump out of office was one of the best things I have seen happen Stateside for a long time. I care not for Republicans or Democrats, or any of our pathetic lot either, but to have a lying mysogynistic fool of a man who cared nothing for anyone else out of world politics was incredibly important.

It was a stark difference in public opinion between the state visit of Obama, who had crowds cheering him where he went, to when that fat idiot came over, when all we had were protests. He's got thick skin, I'll give him that, He had the piss taken out of him wherever he went. A guy made a ballomn that looked like Trump in a nappy, and followed Trumlp wherever he went, flying his balloon at every opportunity.
Obviously you don’t get the coverage of American politics that we do if you think Republicans and Democrats are similar.

Also, your comment about trump having a thick skin is laughable.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Do you think that politics and religion have caused much of this divide, or are they being used as vehicles to promote racism?
No, the way things started here was that you had to be a landowner to vote, which meant you had to be a white male. The racism/chauvinism was built into the system here from the start.
Corruption is a blight on the whole continent of Africa - South Africa is no different, sadly.

Look back to the people who ran the country in the 60's or 70's - there's real evil for you.
Yeah we seem to be about 40 years give or take a couple decades ahead in our society than most other places with how we treat the non-white men population here.

Look at what happened to non-white communities in places like Tulsa (1920) and many other areas of our nation in the pre-ww1 era and it is a lot like what it looked like when the white European nations finally stopped their raping of Africa in the post-ww2 years.

Neither, but the question that seems to want to justify using skin colour does trouble me.
How so?

These are troubling times.

I do question how much merit is put on skin colour. History books will show what happens when skin colour becomes the definition of who someone is. I hear talk like this from 2 sets of people - my parents and older people, or Americans, I am sad to say. Used to hear it all the time in South Africa, but not so much now. Progress at last.
Easy to not talk about 'skin color' when you live in a largely mono-cultural nation. I would bet if we look at the population of South Africa it might make more sense too why people talked about those differences (skin color) more.

Screen Shot 2022-01-06 at 2.26.36 PM.png

Democrats ... Republicans ... aren't they just the same shit, really.

We have Conservatives and Labour as our main parties - I wouldn't piss on either of them if they were on fire, A shower of shite, the lot of them. I literally do not know who to vote for in the next election. I'd prefer to vote for the bellend that is OG-KGP, more than any of our political parties.
No not the same at all right now unfortunately.

Democrats are represented by as close to 100% of our nation and is the most diverse major political party/power in our world's known history.

The Republicans are mainly comprised of the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male's that have been trying like hell to maintain total power over every aspect of our society like it has since we had to bend a knee to someone calling themselves our 'king'.

In the UK, mostly, we look at all politics as shite. In America, it seems normal to only have bad things to say about one party, and good about another. I don't get it - they are all as bad as each other.
And this type of 'both sides' thinking is what is being used to attack our democracies with great affect by the far-right dictators of the world like Putin. And is my guess of why you all got sucked into the Brexit attack that they conducted on your nation.


Would I be correct in assuming you are a Republican? Please forgive my ignorance.

Getting Trump out of office was one of the best things I have seen happen Stateside for a long time. I care not for Republicans or Democrats, or any of our pathetic lot either, but to have a lying mysogynistic fool of a man who cared nothing for anyone else out of world politics was incredibly important.

It was a stark difference in public opinion between the state visit of Obama, who had crowds cheering him where he went, to when that fat idiot came over, when all we had were protests. He's got thick skin, I'll give him that, He had the piss taken out of him wherever he went. A guy made a ballomn that looked like Trump in a nappy, and followed Trumlp wherever he went, flying his balloon at every opportunity.
Not I, I vote for the Democrats. Until Republicans abandon their agenda of doing nothing but legislating for the Wealthy White Heterosexual Male Only agenda, it really is not even close to being a choice to vote for them. The Republicans are shit for our economy and society.

Thing is - you say its one party, and someone else will say its the other. It seems crazy to me that you think one party is rubbish, yet your party is doing everything correct. That simply cannot be. Said with all respect.

The Conservatives are responsible for taking us out of Europe, and Labour took us to war due to weapons of mass destruction, that never existed.

They are all as shit as each other.
Nothing there has changed in 20 years? It has here.
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Thing is - you say its one party, and someone else will say its the other. It seems crazy to me that you think one party is rubbish, yet your party is doing everything correct. That simply cannot be. Said with all respect.

The Conservatives are responsible for taking us out of Europe, and Labour took us to war due to weapons of mass destruction, that never existed.

They are all as shit as each other.
One of those two parties is lying. Find out who.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
Obviously you don’t get the coverage of American politics that we do if you think Republicans and Democrats are similar.
Sorry for not being clear - the last thing I think is that they are similar - they could not be more different.

What they share in common is that they are all shit.

Also, your comment about trump having a thick skin is laughable.
I mean - he has to have thick skin, right? With all the pisstake and dislike that comes his way. Nobody takes the old fart seriously, yet he's still walking around like he actually matters - that has to be the very definition of thick skin.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Not really aimed at Muslims, I don't think. There was a LOT of misinformation at the time, and the older folk who are not so aware of what is going used it as a reason to vote leave. From what I can see, the major reason was to take control of our own destiny, rather than being tied to European laws and rules. I think its just that the right wing elements jumped on it to start their own racist crusade.
I'm sure there is a lot more up to date information out there, but it is interesting how beta the attack on your nation was making the research into that attack far easier to understand than today's.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/15/world/europe/russia-brexit-twitter-facebook.htmlScreen Shot 2022-01-06 at 2.41.18 PM.png
LONDON — More than 150,000 Russian-language Twitter accounts posted tens of thousands of messages in English urging Britain to leave the European Union in the days before last year’s referendum on the issue, a team of researchers disclosed on Wednesday.

More than 400 of the accounts that Twitter has already identified to congressional investigators as tools of the Kremlin, other researchers said, also posted divisive messages about Britain’s decision on withdrawing from the bloc, or Brexit, both before and after the vote.

Most of the messages sought to inflame fears about Muslims and immigrants to help drive the vote, suggesting parallels to the strategy that Russian propagandists employed in the United States in the 2016 election to try to intensify the polarization of the electorate.

The separate findings amount to the strongest evidence yet of a Russian attempt to use social media to manipulate British politics in the same way the Kremlin has done in the United States, France and elsewhere.

The disclosures came just two days after Prime Minister Theresa May of Britain delivered a speech accusing Russia of using cyberattacks and online propaganda to “undermine free societies” and “sow discord in the West.”

On Tuesday, the chief of the National Cyber Security Center released a summary of a prepared speech asserting that in the past 12 months, Russian hackers had unleashed cyberattacks on the British energy grid and the telecommunications and media industries.

Taken together, the flurry of reports and accusations adds to growing pressure on Twitter, Facebook and other social media companies to disclose more of their internal records about advertising payments and account registrations, information essential to illuminating the extent of Russian meddling in the referendum on Brexit.

Any evidence that Moscow did, however, may also complicate the already vexed politics surrounding the issue.

Social media companies disclosed Russia’s role in the American election only after prodding by Congress. Facebook, for example, disclosed this year that, over 32 months, the Kremlin-linked Internet Research Agency had paid more than $100,000 for online advertising, posted 80,000 pieces of divisive content and reached more than 126 million Americans.

The Kremlin has long sought to weaken or divide the European Union, perceiving it as a rival for influence in countries from the former Soviet bloc. And Russia’s main propaganda outlets like Sputnik and Russia Today pushed hard for Brexit.

But the British government, consumed by the negotiations for an exit from the European Union, has not yet obtained similar disclosures. Although a parliamentary committee recently asked the social media companies for information, many critics have argued that the government has little appetite for an inquiry that could muddy its mandate.

The social media companies, including Facebook, Twitter and Google, have had little incentive to volunteer information about the exploitation of their own platforms. And the predominantly right-wing, pro-Brexit British press, particularly the powerful tabloids, have little enthusiasm for undermining the validity of the referendum.

That dynamic may now be changing. The Times of London reported on Wednesday that a team of researchers working on an unrelated and still-unpublished study had identified 156,252 Twitter accounts that listed Russian as their language but posted messages in English to argue against the European Union.

The researchers, Oleksandr Talavera and Tho Pham, of Swansea University in Wales, said in interviews on Wednesday that the Russian accounts, which had posted very little about Brexit in the month before the referendum, became quite active at the last minute: from about 1,000 a day two weeks before the vote to 45,000 in the last 48 hours and 39,000 on the day the results were announced, June 24, 2016.

“It is very strange that someone whose language is Russian tweets in English,” Ms. Pham said — describing it as an anomaly that had prompted the researchers to look more closely at 10 of the most active accounts under suspicion.

Nine had been deleted, and the last, Sveta1972, appeared to emanate from a Russian resort town. On the eve of the referendum, Sveta1972 urged Britain to “make June the 23rd our Independence Day.”

Related findings by a separate team of researchers were reported this week by The Guardian, a strong opponent of Brexit. Those researchers had collected a sample of more than 60 million Twitter posts using hashtags related to Brexit.

They found that 419 of the 2,752 accounts already identified by Twitter to congressional committees as being linked to the Kremlin had posted 3,500 times using Brexit hashtags.

More than 70 percent of those posts were after the vote, but 38 of the accounts tweeted a total of 400 times on the day of the vote, said Laura Cram, a professor at the University of Edinburgh, who conducted the study with her colleague, Clare Llewellyn.

Researchers study Twitter for indications of broader patterns in social media, because information about its users and contents is more accessible than in the larger but less-open platforms like Facebook. But without the disclosure of more information from the companies, social scientists said, neither of the findings disclosed this week will provide conclusive evidence of a deliberate Kremlin campaign to influence the Brexit vote or other British elections.

Ms. Cram, for example, noted that Russian propagandists might have used hashtags related to Brexit only because they fit with protectionist, nativist or anti-Muslim themes that resonated in the context of the American election, as well.

“These accounts were definitely using Brexit hashtags,” she said, “but we cannot say whether they were primarily trying to influence Brexit or whether it was a side effect of them trying to wreak discord generally.”

President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia has denied trying to influence the Brexit vote. But concerns about Russia’s use of social media to meddle in elections have become so commonplace that the Spanish government recently accused Russians of playing a significant role in the push for Catalan independence.

A third, smaller survey, reported last week by Wired magazine, found that 29 of the Russian-linked Twitter accounts identified to Congress had also tweeted 139 times about Britain or Europe. Blaming terrorist attacks on Islam or railing against immigrants were favorite themes, said Jonathon Morgan, chief executive of New Knowledge, a digital security firm based in Austin, Tex., that conducted the survey.

“Many of these accounts strongly pushed the narrative that all Muslims should be equated with terrorists and made the case that Muslims should be banned from Europe,” he said. “That is very consistent with the Russian strategy on U.S. issues, and the fact that they were using the same tactics to target Europeans is extremely telling.”
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
Sorry for not being clear - the last thing I think is that they are similar - they could not be more different.

What they share in common is that they are all shit.



I mean - he has to have thick skin, right? With all the pisstake and dislike that comes his way. Nobody takes the old fart seriously, yet he's still walking around like he actually matters - that has to be the very definition of thick skin.
To the last paragraph, no. That man’s skin is notoriously thin. Not a difficult thing to look up.

And the people supporting him are dead earnest because they want to be princes once he would take power.
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
I mean - he has to have thick skin, right? With all the pisstake and dislike that comes his way. Nobody takes the old fart seriously, yet he's still walking around like he actually matters - that has to be the very definition of thick skin.
trump’s thin skin is the reason American democracy is facing the threat it is today.
 

subwax

Well-Known Member
So I am clear - are you suggesting Brexit was a premeditated attack by Russia?

I do have to check myself that I am on a Cannabis forum.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
In the UK, mostly, we look at all politics as shite. In America, it seems normal to only have bad things to say about one party, and good about another. I don't get it - they are all as bad as each other.

Would I be correct in assuming you are a Republican? Please forgive my ignorance.

Getting Trump out of office was one of the best things I have seen happen Stateside for a long time. I care not for Republicans or Democrats, or any of our pathetic lot either, but to have a lying mysogynistic fool of a man who cared nothing for anyone else out of world politics was incredibly important.

It was a stark difference in public opinion between the state visit of Obama, who had crowds cheering him on in the thousands, everywhere he went, to when that fat idiot came over, when all we had were protests. He's got thick skin, I'll give him that, He had the piss taken out of him wherever he went. A guy made a ballomn that looked like Trump in a nappy, and followed Trumlp wherever he went, flying his balloon at every opportunity.

I remember leaving world to catch the tube to my train - as I walked down the stairs, I walked past a girl that was heading for another protest. She had a placard, on which where the big red letter - C * N T. I had to laugh.

OG-KGP - the * is a U - just to clear it up for you.
You are talking about a party whose leader, during a nationally broadcast presidential debate, told a paramilitary fascist group to "stand down and stand by", then arranged for that same paramilitary group to lead the assault on our election after he lost. Republican leaders even sent messages during the riot to tell rioters where Democratic Party leaders were hiding in the Capitol Building. A year later, Trump is still backed by a whopping large majority of members of the Republican Party. Republican Party leaders are gaslighting the public with claims that nothing major really happened. The evidence shows that Republicans backed the sacking of our Capitol Building, the attempted coup by Trump to overthrow our election and the murder of Trump's political enemies.

I don't see how anybody can say Democrats and Republicans are same. I think the "both sides same" message is propaganda promoted by those same insurrectionist leaders.
 
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