lusidghost
Well-Known Member
I've never measured either, but they still get pretty damn hot.
i’ll not buy another led until..
- Thread starter crimsonecho
- Start date
LeastExpectedGrower
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen people or the company suggest you need to add additional heat sinks or DIY fan setups, so that says something.
I don't have any these. I use 3x HLG 225's so I get decent dispersion for the shape of my tent. I'll be happy to take some heat measurements off them when I get home from the office, though I haven't ever felt the need to worry about it.
crimsonecho
Well-Known Member
the thing is if everyone demands it you dont have to pay for it. what is the manufacturing costs of a mars hydro.
they’re selling the fce 6500 for 500 lets say. 3 cents for a diode which i guess they buy it cheaper but still 3564 diodes or something so 100 bucks another 100 for the driver(?) another 50-60 for the aluminium. and 50 bucks for the manufacturing and shipping costs maybe? so what 300 bucks.
i’m guessing its closer to 200 but ok 300 with shipping and stuff is a reasonable estimate in my opinion. they can spend 50 bucks more and use 1,5 times the diodes and run them softer without jacking up the prices. or use the same money to double the aluminium even triple maybe. i dont know the price of aluminium but i can buy huge heatsinks very cheap over here. is this too much to ask.
or at least lets not be so comfortable with poorly designed fixtures and call it as it is. they run hot as f, and that is going to shorten the lifespan of the diodes significantly and this is not specified on none of these companies sites.
crimsonecho
Well-Known Member
maybe they should have suggested additional heatsinks or at least provide them upon purchase.I haven't seen people or the company suggest you need to add additional heat sinks or DIY fan setups, so that says something.
I don't have any these. I use 3x HLG 225's so I get decent dispersion for the shape of my tent. I'll be happy to take some heat measurements off them when I get home from the office, though I haven't ever felt the need to worry about it.
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not saying your setup or lights are shit just saying with thermal management you can use these lights way longer and the initial purchase price you pay for these lights are high and because low end is so low end, high end doesnt feel like they need to up their games. i always buy high end with whatever i purchase but looking at these lights out there, as samseedwell runs the premium version of lumatek for example, definitely higher tier lights, it still runs fucking hot. i dont think thats nice and dont feel like i’m getting my moneys worth.
LeastExpectedGrower
Well-Known Member
If everyone demands it, the cost of that demand may go down, but it doesn't magically go away, especially when dealing with things like shipping costs and/or some materials.
You're falling for a trap that I see in people like my father in law. He hates to eat out because he thinks its a rip-off. Because he says "well I can grow my own vegetables, so why pay so much for them" and "I know what food costs in the store, so paying twice that or more is someone ripping me off." But here's the thing. You're paying for the utilities of the space & to cook the food, you're paying for all the gear they have to make the food and serve the food. You're paying for the hostess, waitstaff, busboys, dishwashers, chefs & kitchen staff. You're also covering ALL the other expenses in the business because that's how a business works.
Can you buy diodes and make your own? Sure. Very few people want to do that. Calculating the cost of the materials that go into one light doesn't really give a good idea of the true costs of that item.
LeastExpectedGrower
Well-Known Member
Additional heat sinks beyond the huge crown of thorns that already come mounted? I'm running 3 of them at full tilt and not using AC and remaining within 10 degrees of temps outside my tent. Seems like they're doing OK.
I'm not surprised you don't think spending more is worth it. You're arguing that even the budget stuff isn't worth what it costs.
crimsonecho
Well-Known Member
i also accounted for all the other expenses you mentioned per unit in the manufacturing costs. i think profit margin for these lights is about 100% as they are and thats all profit. without seeing the mars hydros books i cant be sure of course
crimsonecho
Well-Known Member
not on yours the ones you quoted on your prior post. its not about spending money again i always buy premium shit. i eat french camembert and swiss gruyere, i drive a range rover i drink lagavulin when i go to a bar. i love premium but these lights are NOT premium imo (not talking about mars talking about proper high tier premium grade whatever)Additional heat sinks beyond the huge crown of thorns that already come mounted? I'm running 3 of them at full tilt and not using AC and remaining within 10 degrees of temps outside my tent. Seems like they're doing OK.
I'm not surprised you don't think spending more is worth it. You're arguing that even the budget stuff isn't worth what it costs.
HippieDudeRon
Well-Known Member
What is cool? What is hot?
Those are adjectives, not data. Not ot mention 50C to a human is hot...not to an LED.
So after 10 pages in 1 day of bitching...not one single Tc measurement presented.
Basic cheap thermocouple, FLIR cam, meat/baby thermometer... Get some data folks!
Those are adjectives, not data. Not ot mention 50C to a human is hot...not to an LED.
So after 10 pages in 1 day of bitching...not one single Tc measurement presented.
Basic cheap thermocouple, FLIR cam, meat/baby thermometer... Get some data folks!
crimsonecho
Well-Known Member
50c at heatsinks is hot. led hot not just human hot. yeah by all means collect the data. be my guest. these adjectives are not that subjective. we’re not talking about our sun versus a white dwarf or something. the margin is small between human hot and led hot.
there is data collected by this guy for example
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior
Well-Known Member
I wish I had those Cerwin-Vega's. Awesome speakers. My buddy took the 15 sub out of his and threw it in a box with an amp for his car. So smooth. Those speakers Rock!
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
Funny and messed up running class cones at at half impedance. Sacrilege.
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
I love those speakers. I've held on to them for years, even though my main stereo is a Harmon Kardon, polk audio setup now. I use the cv's for backing tracks when I'm playing guitar.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
Black and White made amazing high wattage ribbon speakers n the early eighties in Germany. Cousin won't sell. So dual 18" coned mains from the early 90's as mains. And a Peavey 24" bull frog for base when I get around to restoring cabinet. The goodies I got remodeling churches and movie theaters.
And I kick myself for passing on a few Klipsch deals.
bk78
Well-Known Member
Stay on topic and stop derailing threads
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
And could you remain with the closet dwellers? I run 4 320 watt hlg 301h boards in the fall here outside. And I swear by 3528 LED strips for early veg. What is your lighting??
HippieDudeRon
Well-Known Member
They are very subjective adjectives. Case and point 50C Tc.... not heatsink temp, is cool as hell to an LED. This is not an opinion but the actual data behind it. It is hot to touch as a human. But we don't matter to LEDs.
You can go to any manufacture of the LEDs(Samsung, Osram, Cree, Lumileds...) and get the LM80 and tm21 reports that show thousand of hours of testing and multiple samples of it.
36,000 to 50,000 hrs being pretty standardized lm80 lives for high and mid power leds at 85C. 50C extending that substantially. This can be gotten from the LM80 reports from a third party testing facility.
Yes Migro did his test. That is one data point. . Youre are calling out companies and acting like shit hit the fan over one test, that doesn't show anything out of the norm.
Back to my point, how "hot" are your lights and diodes running? Measure it.
VincenzioVonHook
Well-Known Member
The crux of the matter is more providing adequate airflow regardless of the light purchased.
Airflow is paramount, and the lights are designed to run in an enclosure that removes enough stagnant warm air to begin with.
If you would rather pay an extra hundred or two instead of running a $10 fan and exhausting enough air, there lies your problem plain and simple..1000w of heat is 1000w of heat. I just run a 6" fan blowing across the tent a few inches below the light and have my carbon filter a cm from my driver and board, and the warm air is removed from the tent leaving the light cool to touch.
It seems like you are trying to counteract bad airflow with another $100-$200 worth of heatsinks when simple airflow will do the job.
You will find 99% of people would rather spend a few dollars to set up proper air exchange Instead of paying an extra $100-$200 on manufacturer heatsinks.
Why wait on manufacturers to provide you with a cost ineffective method of heat removal when a simple fan and appropriately mounted exhaust system will do the same job? Just seems like you want to bitch about this forever and wait for a manufacturer to fix something you could have already fixed by running adequate airflow to begin with.
If it's actually about absolute temps from the box, why not push manufacturers to include a $10 fan instead of a $100 heatsink? It does the same job and doesn't cost everyone another 10-20% of their budget.
Airflow is paramount, and the lights are designed to run in an enclosure that removes enough stagnant warm air to begin with.
If you would rather pay an extra hundred or two instead of running a $10 fan and exhausting enough air, there lies your problem plain and simple..1000w of heat is 1000w of heat. I just run a 6" fan blowing across the tent a few inches below the light and have my carbon filter a cm from my driver and board, and the warm air is removed from the tent leaving the light cool to touch.
It seems like you are trying to counteract bad airflow with another $100-$200 worth of heatsinks when simple airflow will do the job.
You will find 99% of people would rather spend a few dollars to set up proper air exchange Instead of paying an extra $100-$200 on manufacturer heatsinks.
Why wait on manufacturers to provide you with a cost ineffective method of heat removal when a simple fan and appropriately mounted exhaust system will do the same job? Just seems like you want to bitch about this forever and wait for a manufacturer to fix something you could have already fixed by running adequate airflow to begin with.
If it's actually about absolute temps from the box, why not push manufacturers to include a $10 fan instead of a $100 heatsink? It does the same job and doesn't cost everyone another 10-20% of their budget.
MICHI-CAN
Well-Known Member
A cheap 12 volt transformer over 1000mah will run more than enough case fans of diect polarity drive to cool a timber "pin head" heat sink times 12. Air flow and ambient are crucial.