Help me understand Organic vs. Chemical grows.

[Friendly_Grower]

Nope, I know nothing about it. I don't see how it could possibly be any different at the molecular level to be honest, which is why I asked you what the difference is. X-rays? Seems pretty far-fetched.

Nope.
Mind you I am trying to remember something from maybe a couple decades ago.
It's true that (I think) X-Ray can see synthetic Nitrogen molecules in plant tissue.
To your question does it make a difference in plant growth? I remember the article saying no.

I used to be an Organic over Chemical crusader in my younger days and that led me to read stuff.

Now I'm old and tired and say do what you want but mine is organic so it's Top Top Top Shelf.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

In my opinion, the difference you detect in "organic grown" weed vs hydroponic grown weed is due the absence of things such as soil bacteria, naturally occurring hormones, plus humic and fulvic acids. Personally I add kelp, fulvic acid, and bacteria to my feed, which I feel enhances the flavor compared to straight salt feeds.

Have you read up on what those things do?
Life is an interesting thing to know about.

 

[PJ Diaz]

Nope.
Mind you I am trying to remember something from maybe a couple decades ago.
It's true that (I think) X-Ray can see synthetic Nitrogen molecules in plant tissue.
To your question does it make a difference in plant growth? I remember the article saying no.

I used to be an Organic over Chemical crusader in my younger days and that led me to read stuff.

Now I'm old and tired and say do what you want but mine is organic so it's Top Top Top Shelf.

Well, get back to me when you have some solid info to present, rather than what you think you remember.

Have you read up on what those things do?
Life is an interesting thing to know about.

Yep I have. Soil Science class was a couple of decades ago, but I have continued my education.

I used to be an Organic over Chemical crusader in my younger days and that led me to read stuff.

I'm a fan of organic gardening, but mostly for it's lack of chemical pesticide use and general benefit to the environment. I tend to grow better weed with salt nutes compared to pure organic however. I've done it both ways.

 

[Blue brother]

Well I am fine with roasting a cola with some leaf and bud together in the toaster oven and grinding it through a strainer then rolling and smoking.

The flavor is excellent.
Just eating a leaf is tasty.

I don't think chemical growers have the same experience.

I say again tasty.

Eh? I wasn’t being sarcastic, or were you lol? The thought of caring for animals in the way u described and using their waste to fertilise plants reminded me of when I used to breed fish and use their waste from the filter in my grow and spray them with the water. If u really do the Guinea pig thing…. Show me the Guinea pigs!!!! Little adorable bastards what they are

 

[Blue brother]

Nope.
Mind you I am trying to remember something from maybe a couple decades ago.
It's true that (I think) X-Ray can see synthetic Nitrogen molecules in plant tissue.
To your question does it make a difference in plant growth? I remember the article saying no.

I used to be an Organic over Chemical crusader in my younger days and that led me to read stuff.

Now I'm old and tired and say do what you want but mine is organic so it's Top Top Top Shelf.

Do you mean organic in the true sense of the word? As in all you EVER use is carbon based compounds ? Or are you using it how it’s been used lately by the food industry? To say you don’t use pesticides or non naturally occurring compounds?

What about water? No fluoride, no calcium?

I really think it’s both ignorant and naive to say that ur “organic” is top top top shelf and insinuate that a grower using a mixture of organic, mineral and synthetics Bud would be sub par.

Im gonna put myself out there as someone who does living soil and say that the ONLY difference between fully organically grown cannabis and cannabis grown any other way is the impact on the environment.

As long as you feed the right stuff in both scenarios then there is no difference. The plant doesn’t care it just uses the food in front of it

 

[Funkentelechy]

In my opinion, the difference you detect in "organic grown" weed vs hydroponic grown weed is due the absence of things such as soil bacteria, naturally occurring hormones, plus humic and fulvic acids. Personally I add kelp, fulvic acid, and bacteria to my feed, which I feel enhances the flavor compared to straight salt feeds.

I agree which is why I find it strange that you and BK78 made fun of me earlier when I said basically the same thing.

There is a difference in flavor, organic vs non-organic, whether you prefer the flavor of one vs the other is up to you, it's your grow you do you, but there is a difference.
The plant may not "care", as some of you put it, as long as its nutritional needs are met, but surely you can tell the difference in the end result. Beef from a cow that is grain-fed is exactly the same on the molecular level as a cow that is grass-fed, but any foodie worth his or her salt can taste the difference.
This is not to say that one is better than another, or a debate of which is right or wrong, just that there is obviously a difference in the end result between growing methods. Which one you prefer is up to you.

Different inputs can affect the flavor, that's all I was saying. You guys are sensitive.

 

[bk78]

You guys are sensitive.

Wait we’re sensitive, but you think a laughing emoji is making fun of you?

 

[Friendly_Grower]

Do you mean organic in the true sense of the word? As in all you EVER use is carbon based compounds ? Or are you using it how it’s been used lately by the food industry? To say you don’t use pesticides or non naturally occurring compounds?

What about water? No fluoride, no calcium?

I really think it’s both ignorant and naive to say that ur “organic” is top top top shelf and insinuate that a grower using a mixture of organic, mineral and synthetics Bud would be sub par.

Im gonna put myself out there as someone who does living soil and say that the ONLY difference between fully organically grown cannabis and cannabis grown any other way is the impact on the environment.

As long as you feed the right stuff in both scenarios then there is no difference. The plant doesn’t care it just uses the food in front of it

What guy says he has a little dick?
What Grower says he grows shit weed?

Sure my weed is top top top shelf dude...


LOL

Come on peeps can we get Ridiculous ?

 

[bk78]

What guy says he has a little dick?
What Grower says he grows shit weed?

Sure my weed is top top top shelf dude...


LOL

Clome on peeps can we get Ridiculous ?

 

[Friendly_Grower]

Eh? I wasn’t being sarcastic, or were you lol? The thought of caring for animals in the way u described and using their waste to fertilise plants reminded me of when I used to breed fish and use their waste from the filter in my grow and spray them with the water. If u really do the Guinea pig thing…. Show me the Guinea pigs!!!! Little adorable bastards what they are

Just follow the link in the Sig.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

Do you mean organic in the true sense of the word? As in all you EVER use is carbon based compounds ? Or are you using it how it’s been used lately by the food industry? To say you don’t use pesticides or non naturally occurring compounds?

What about water? No fluoride, no calcium?

I really think it’s both ignorant and naive to say that ur “organic” is top top top shelf and insinuate that a grower using a mixture of organic, mineral and synthetics Bud would be sub par.

Im gonna put myself out there as someone who does living soil and say that the ONLY difference between fully organically grown cannabis and cannabis grown any other way is the impact on the environment.

As long as you feed the right stuff in both scenarios then there is no difference. The plant doesn’t care it just uses the food in front of it

I have not needed any chemical stuff so far.
Pest control has been done with Yellow Sticky Traps and preventive control with a nice bug zapper unit.
I guess one day I will face a catastrophic infestation but I do remember some Organic Wisdom and that is "Healthy Plants have the strength to fight off pests."
I do have to say my medical strain is a mean strain. I can't take much time in there with them when they start emitting their oils in defense with me moving them and their branches.
i don't know if people have experience healthy cannabis plants emitting oils as a defense or not but my medical strain is really mean. They spray oils so I figure that is a healthy plant that is going to put up a fight against pests including me rustling around.
So no, I have not had to use chemicals nor fight off any major infestations.
In fact I usually only see peeps who are using chemical fertilizers that get those problems. I mean that is just me and what I see but it is what it is.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

Well, get back to me when you have some solid info to present, rather than what you think you remember.

Yep I have. Soil Science class was a couple of decades ago, but I have continued my education.

I'm a fan of organic gardening, but mostly for it's lack of chemical pesticide use and general benefit to the environment. I tend to grow better weed with salt nutes compared to pure organic however. I've done it both ways.

Sure I'll get back to you.
I'll put it on my todo list. You are that important to me.

 

[Friendly_Grower]

Look fellow grower friends, growing your own weed is like having sex. Who cares what others are doing with their junk?
What I can say about my gardening plan is that I believe in what has been going on for millions and millions of years and that is the soil food web. I believe I am getting to it with my composting and recycling of the organic soil every year. I sure invest in quality amendments that go into the basic materials.
My belief is that plants have the ability to defend themselves because if they didn't that wouldn't survive in the real world now would they. Therefore a healthy plant is the absolute best method against disease and pest problems.
Sure there are issues that are extreme such as a large population of predatory insects invading a tasty meal of the indoor garden but again having healthy plants who defend themselves is the right first step.
So I say to thee garden the way you want. It's your junk and I don't care. Just know that in my house there is no concern about the quality of the produce.
So the thing to fix problems is don't have them in the first place.
Also to answer the question of if I use things that are considered chemical well everything is chemical like everything is political when you think about it. I am learning about composting with Azomite, Green Sand and lately I have some rock phosphate. I'll see what these things do and I do these things because plants in pots have limited options for where their roots can go and if they need those minerals well the soil has to supply.
Other things I use are kelp, Foldgers Classic roast coffee, shrimp meal, generic 4-4-4 organic mix, fish bone meal and then there are the things that come with the guinea pig manure bedding such as their poo, pee and wood shavings plus hay.
What can I say? It seems to do just fine. I compost in Compost tumblers.

So again Garden the way you wanna do baby. All I can say is that my produce is excellent and I don't care what others do with their junk.

 

[bk78]

Look fellow grower friends, growing your own weed is like having sex. Who cares what others are doing with their junk?
What I can say about my gardening plan is that I believe in what has been going on for millions and millions of years and that is the soil food web. I believe I am getting to it with my composting and recycling of the organic soil every year. I sure invest in quality amendments that go into the basic materials.
My belief is that plants have the ability to defend themselves because if they didn't that wouldn't survive in the real world now would they. Therefore a healthy plant is the absolute best method against disease and pest problems.
Sure there are issues that are extreme such as a large population of predatory insects invading a tasty meal of the indoor garden but again having healthy plants who defend themselves is the right first step.
So I say to thee garden the way you want. It's your junk and I don't care. Just know that in my house there is no concern about the quality of the produce.
So the thing to fix problems is don't have them in the first place.
Also to answer the question of if I use things that are considered chemical well everything is chemical like everything is political when you think about it. I am learning about composting with Azomite, Green Sand and lately I have some rock phosphate. I'll see what these things do and I do these things because plants in pots have limited options for where their roots can go and if they need those minerals well the soil has to supply.
Other things I use are kelp, Foldgers Classic roast coffee, shrimp meal, generic 4-4-4 organic mix, fish bone meal and then there are the things that come with the guinea pig manure bedding such as their poo, pee and wood shavings plus hay.
What can I say? It seems to do just fine. I compost in Compost tumblers.

So again Garden the way you wanna do baby. All I can say is that my produce is excellent and I don't care what others do with their junk.

TLDR

Do you have a link to your master growing skillz journal that you’ve completed? Or are they still “on hold”?

 

[PJ Diaz]

Sure I'll get back to you.
I'll put it on my todo list. You are that important to me.

Bro, it's just a conversation. You made a bold assertion, which I asked you to back up. All you could do was tell me what you think you remember from years ago. If it's not important to you to back up your own claims, that has zero to do with me.

I agree which is why I find it strange that you and BK78 made fun of me earlier when I said basically the same thing.

Different inputs can affect the flavor, that's all I was saying. You guys are sensitive.

Show me where I made fun of you. I think you are confused. I never said that different inputs can affect flavor, I only questioned your bold statement of the difference between organic and inorganic at a molecular level. My questioning of that seems to have upset you.

 

[speedwell68]

There is a difference in flavor, organic vs non-organic, whether you prefer the flavor of one vs the other is up to you, it's your grow you do you, but there is a difference.

No there isn't. If you took a pair of genetically identical clones and grew one organically and the other in using a salt based system there is no way you'd tell the difference in a blind taste test, not a chance.

 

[PJ Diaz]

My belief is that plants have the ability to defend themselves because if they didn't that wouldn't survive in the real world now would they. Therefore a healthy plant is the absolute best method against disease and pest problems.
Sure there are issues that are extreme such as a large population of predatory insects invading a tasty meal of the indoor garden but again having healthy plants who defend themselves is the right first step.

Having a healthy plant should be your last line of defense against pests. The first line of defense should be to control your environment against intrusion. Predatory insects wouldn't be a problem, as predatory insects eat other insects not plants.

Here's some good reading for you on the basics of IPM:

Basics of Integrated Pest Management - Alabama Cooperative Extension System

This article provides basic information about the USDA National Organic Program (NOP) standards as they apply to integrated pest management on organic crops.

www.aces.edu

 

[Funkentelechy]

What was "my bold statement of the difference between organic and inorganic at a molecular level"? I think you may be confused, I know I am LOL.

 

[PJ Diaz]

No there isn't. If you took a pair of genetically identical clones and grew one organically and the other in using a salt based system there is no way you'd tell the difference in a blind taste test, not a chance.

So you don't think a plant grown with nutes that include fulvic acid will taste any different vs plants grown without fulvics? The plant absorbs fulvic acid in addition to the nutes, so why do you assert that such an addition would not affect flavor? It does affect the flavor and quality of peppers, so why not cannabis?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274125799_Fulvic_acid_affects_pepper_antioxidant_activity_and_fruit_quality

 

[PJ Diaz]

What was "my bold statement of the difference between organic and inorganic at a molecular level"? I think you may be confused, I know I am LOL.

Sorry, my bad. I mixed you up with friendly gardener. Please show me where I made fun of you.