Climate in the 21st Century

[DIY-HP-LED]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1586890387733594112

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Looks like he got way bigger crowds than Trump!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1587068621284470784

 

[captainmorgan]

Bolsonaro has not conceded yet, chances are he will pull a trump move and say he was cheated.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

If gyrotron drilling works out and a few test sites should prove feasibility, it will grow rapidly with oil companies and thermal power plant owners all over it and these people have capital. There are other approaches to geothermal like this one, but if gyrotron drilling works out it will allow them to economically and rapidly go 10 miles deep into bedrock where the big potential energy payoffs are. Basically, wherever there was a coal or gas fired power plant they could punch holes in the ground, replace the boilers with heat exchangers and other equipment then run the steam turbines fuel and emissions free. They are testing it now and expect to have an experimental well drilled in the next year or two. If the process is found to be feasible and profitable, it will completely and rapidly change the world energy market and provide almost limitless baseload power.

This is a more traditional approach and can easily provide heating, power generation is more problematic in most places, but it is expensive to drill deep holes using conventional means.

Geothermal 2.0: Why Cornell University put a 2-mile hole in the Earth

To solve humanity’s reliance on fossil fuels, solar and wind power isn’t enough. Some researchers and investors are looking down, not up.

www.csmonitor.com

 

[cannabineer]

If gyrotron drilling works out and a few test sites should prove feasibility, it will grow rapidly with oil companies and thermal power plant owners all over it and these people have capital. There are other approaches to geothermal like this one, but if gyrotron drilling works out it will allow them to economically and rapidly go 10 miles deep into bedrock where the big potential energy payoffs are. Basically, wherever there was a coal or gas fired power plant they could punch holes in the ground, replace the boilers with heat exchangers and other equipment then run the steam turbines fuel and emissions free. They are testing it now and expect to have an experimental well drilled in the next year or two. If the process is found to be feasible and profitable, it will completely and rapidly change the world energy market and provide almost limitless baseload power.

This is a more traditional approach and can easily provide heating, power generation is more problematic in most places, but it is expensive to drill deep holes using conventional means.

Geothermal 2.0: Why Cornell University put a 2-mile hole in the Earth

To solve humanity’s reliance on fossil fuels, solar and wind power isn’t enough. Some researchers and investors are looking down, not up.

www.csmonitor.com

How do you imagine they will stabilize such a deep borehole?

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

How do you imagine they will stabilize such a deep borehole?

They would use a conventional drill and borehole to get to bedrock, then use the Gyrotron with a wave guide. Glass, or vitrified rock has tremendous compressive strength and I understand there would be considerable pressure on the inside of the hole during drilling. One of the things they may do is experiment to make the casing thicker.

It works on paper apparently and on test blocs of basalt, the real-world test is pending but if its successful, I can see a lot of people, companies and governments taking a very keen interest. The Quaise people aren't really looking for money or investors at this point as far as I can tell, work is moving forward on a relatively shallow bore hole out west where the fruit is hanging low, or I should say shallow. The thing is though, if it does work, it will send shockwaves through the petroleum and alternative energy markets and solve a lot of problems.

Most things don't matter much like most wars, but like the war in Ukraine this one thing could have a huge impact. The two big factors are, does it work and is it economical, on paper it has both well covered.

 

[cannabineer]

They would use a conventional drill and borehole to get to bedrock, then use the Gyrotron with a wave guide. Glass, or vitrified rock has tremendous compressive strength and I understand there would be considerable pressure on the inside of the hole during drilling. One of the things they may do is experiment to make the casing thicker.

It works on paper apparently and on test blocs of basalt, the real-world test is pending but if its successful, I can see a lot of people, companies and governments taking a very keen interest. The Quaise people aren't really looking for money or investors at this point as far as I can tell, work is moving forward on a relatively shallow bore hole out west where the fruit is hanging low, or I should say shallow. The thing is though, if it does work, it will send shockwaves through the petroleum and alternative energy markets and solve a lot of problems.

Most things don't matter much like most wars, but like the war in Ukraine this one thing could have a huge impact. The two big factors are, does it work and is it economical, on paper it has both well covered.

At ten miles down, the surrounding rock is under half a GPa of pressure. Hot rock flows, and vitreous hot rock flows even faster. The brittle-ductile conversion depth for competent crystalline rock is typically quoted as 15 km, so I wonder how long before the cavity squeezes shut. It might work. I wonder how much heat can be extracted, especially as the chilled zone thickens like a dipped candle and passes ever lower power. I don’t know.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

At ten miles down, the surrounding rock is under half a GPa of pressure. Hot rock flows, and vitreous hot rock flows even faster. The brittle-ductile conversion depth for competent crystalline rock is typically quoted as 15 km, so I wonder how long before the cavity squeezes shut. It might work. I wonder how much heat can be extracted, especially as the chilled zone thickens like a dipped candle and passes ever lower power. I don’t know.

I imagine your first question would be of primary concern from an engineering perspective, but the constant circulation and counter pressure of water at that depth in the bore holes at(15km) would be enormous. Apparently fracturing does occur at those depths, but much will have to be learned through experience and experiment. The shallow bore hole in a hot zone out your way somewhere should prove the concept enough for more testing. Rock plasticity and other properties are different at those pressures. My concern would be mineral build up caused by supercritical water/steam dissolving them and condensing them in the heat exchangers for instance, glass or other minerals could build up.

 

[cannabineer]

I imagine your first question would be of primary concern from an engineering perspective, but the constant circulation and counter pressure of water at that depth in the bore holes at(15km) would be enormous. Apparently fracturing does occur at those depths, but much will have to be learned through experience and experiment. The shallow bore hole in a hot zone out your way somewhere should prove the concept enough for more testing. Rock plasticity and other properties are different at those pressures. My concern would be mineral build up caused by supercritical water/steam dissolving them and condensing them in the heat exchangers for instance, glass or other minerals could build up.

Water, even brine, is much less dense than rock. It also encounters supercritical temperatures, and I share your concern about its corrosive properties. I can imagine other heat-carrier fluids, but they’d be serious pollutants. PCBs jump to mind.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

At ten miles down, the surrounding rock is under half a GPa of pressure. Hot rock flows, and vitreous hot rock flows even faster. The brittle-ductile conversion depth for competent crystalline rock is typically quoted as 15 km, so I wonder how long before the cavity squeezes shut. It might work. I wonder how much heat can be extracted, especially as the chilled zone thickens like a dipped candle and passes ever lower power. I don’t know.

I wasn't a big believer in geothermal power for the usual reasons, it wasn't feasible using current drilling technology. However, as we know technology can change things dramatically in a short time, if the economic and other incentives are there. I'm still not a believer in practical geothermal power until these guys prove its feasibility and practicality, but they have done their homework, know their business and are worth a faction of the cash spent on nuclear and fusion research to find out if it's a disruptive technology.

 

[injinji]

How super-hot rocks miles under the earth's surface could provide limitless clean energy

Superhot rock geothermal energy can be generated from dry rock that's at least 752 degrees Fahrenheit, which lies at depths between two and 12 miles.

www.cnbc.com

There is a show on NPR called how I built that, or some such. A man has come up with a new drill that makes it possible to get down to the hot stuff. The drill uses energy to shatter the rock and then they vacuum the debris up. (as apposed to pulling up the drill stem to clean the bit) It took the Russians 20 years to get down there, and with the new tech we should be able to do it in a couple three months.

 

[injinji]

For those who want to find out more about gyrotrons and drilling deep wells with them economically this guy from MIT started Quaise Energy to exploit the technology mentioned in the article above. They use 28 GHz waves that pass right through the plasma generated while compressed air blasts it away and keeps the drill head cool, the borehole is glass lined by melted rock.

Paul Woskov - Into the Bedrock by Full Bore Millimeter-Waves

7,028 views Dec 28, 2015 [next] December 8–9, 2015 San Francisco, California

Into the Bedrock by Full Bore Millimeter-Waves
Drilling into deep crystalline basement rock is a bottleneck technology to accessing vast resources of geothermal energy and to a possible solution to the nuclear waste storage problem. Commercially available high power millimeter-wave sources developed for fusion energy research could be a drilling game changer by enabling full bore directed energy penetration. This wavelength range propagates well through optically obscure paths and is well absorbed by rock melt, it can be efficiently guided long distances, and sources come in megawatt average power size units that are over 50% efficient. The electricity costs to melt or vaporize through a hard rock formation could be less than 1/10 of current costs of a deep mechanical drilled hole in softer rock. Melt/vaporization experiments of granite and basalt with a 10 mm wave beam have established its feasibility in the laboratory at MIT.

Never mind.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Water, even brine, is much less dense than rock. It also encounters supercritical temperatures, and I share your concern about its corrosive properties. I can imagine other heat-carrier fluids, but they’d be serious pollutants. PCBs jump to mind.

One of the things that draws me to it is that unlike many other energy technologies this one, if it works, would have serious implications for the renewable power industry and petroleum producing countries. If it is found feasible and existing thermal electric plants can be adapted, it might kill or limit wind solar and even energy storage companies and technologies. It could induce panic selling in OPEC and other oil producing countries and thus limit their global influence. Such a technology might be rolled out rapidly with thousands of bore holes drilled over a decade, free emission energy forever would be a dream come true for a country like Germany for instance. Gyrotrons aren't hard to build, and neither are the wave guides.

So, the impact of this one could be huge in that it would be rapidly developed and leverage existing facilities and infrastructure. With improved battery technology for EVs and even light aviation, demand for fossil fuels would drop pretty fast. It could change the world geopolitically as well as technologically, not to mention impact climate change most of all.

 

[cannabineer]

One of the things that draws me to it is that unlike many other energy technologies this one, if it works, would have serious implications for the renewable power industry and petroleum producing countries. If it is found feasible and existing thermal electric plants can be adapted, it might kill or limit wind solar and even energy storage companies and technologies. It could induce panic selling in OPEC and other oil producing countries and thus limit their global influence. Such a technology might be rolled out rapidly with thousands of bore holes drilled over a decade, free emission energy forever would be a dream come true for a country like Germany for instance. Gyrotrons aren't hard to build, and neither are the wave guides.

So, the impact of this one could be huge in that it would be rapidly developed and leverage existing facilities and infrastructure. With improved battery technology for EVs and even light aviation, demand for fossil fuels would drop pretty fast. It could change the world geopolitically as well as technologically, not to mention impact climate change most of all.

I have grave doubts about the power lifetime of a borehole sunk into competent old geology. I await data that’ll take some time before useful trends emerge.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I have grave doubts about the power lifetime of a borehole sunk into competent old geology. I await data that’ll take some time before useful trends emerge.

We will see, but it's its potential as a disruptive technology and the implications that fascinate me most. The Saudis would shit, so would a lot of others!

 

[Grandpapy]

Some of it is close to the surface.

The power plant (bottom) with the formerly active geothermal areas on the slope above (white areas).

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I have grave doubts about the power lifetime of a borehole sunk into competent old geology. I await data that’ll take some time before useful trends emerge.

It's also a thing that can dramatically raise standards of living and quality of life globally, if it works. Energy makes up a big part of the cost of making and transporting things and basically free energy after the capital investment is paid off and maintenance costs are covered is another technology that would be hugely important for human progress and even survival.

 

[cannabineer]

It's also a thing that can dramatically raise standards of living and quality of life globally, if it works. Energy makes up a big part of the cost of making and transporting things and basically free energy after the capital investment is paid off and maintenance costs are covered is another technology that would be hugely important for human progress and even survival.

It needs to be proven. i will not bet on blue-sky tech.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Some of it is close to the surface.
View attachment 5220781
The power plant (bottom) with the formerly active geothermal areas on the slope above (white areas).

Its use is limited and site specific, hopefully this new idea could get us to where the really useful heat is miles below and almost anywhere. This kind of high heat can easily drive a coal or gas-powered thermal generating station, so existing infrastructure can be leveraged.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

It needs to be proven. i will not bet on blue-sky tech.

Neither will I, but I would support government funding to accelerate research and prove or disprove the concept. If it is viable, then private and government capital would not be an issue at all. I like its odds better than fussion for now and the roll out would be way faster. Fussion is kinda blue sky when you compare the amount of money spent on it, to the mere pittance it would cost to give this a real good try. Payoff is the point of fussion research after all and that looks aways out.