Climate in the 21st Century

Will Humankind see the 22nd Century?

  • Not a fucking chance

    Votes: 43 29.1%
  • Maybe. if we get our act together

    Votes: 36 24.3%
  • Yes, we will survive

    Votes: 69 46.6%

  • Total voters
    148

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
beats me! I’m already speculating well past my former pay grade.
At this point it’s watch&wait.

View attachment 5334488
Sometimes it is fun to look at the possibilities and the possibility of turning room temps and humidity into useable power is interesting to say the least. Especially when we have the ability to mass produce such films or membranes, which we do by a couple of different means. Now that I thought about it and where the energy could be coming from, ambient infrared absorption seems the only logical explanation that comports with the laws of physics. That come to think about it is a bit of a holy grail, using energy in such bandwidths and water vapor and exact hole sizes could be the key. There obviously needs to be a lot of lab work done, but the overall mechanism with a temperature drop is the closest we are likely to come to Maxwell's fabled demon, he lives in tiny holes and drinks water! :lol:

Needless to say I like science!
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Those without professional reputations on the line are free to folly, so are the pros when it comes to discussing half-baked ideas over a beer, which has a venerable history in science.
It is my firm belief that the Drake Equation is the unretouched product of an evening had by a number of astronomy grad students/postdocs and a similar number of pitchers of Margaritas.

To the approximate tune of John Brown’s Body: from my postdoc days in Massivepooshits

 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
It is my firm belief that the Drake Equation is the unretouched product of an evening had by a number of astronomy grad students/postdocs and a similar number of pitchers of Margaritas.

To the approximate tune of John Brown’s Body: from my postdoc days in Massapooshits

Actually, I wrote a piece about the simple linear equation about 20 years ago for a Seti site and speculated about its utility as more factors become known. Especially the development of space borne infrared Interferometry and Spectroscopy detecting atmospheric indications of biospheres in a radius a few of dozen lightyears, a statistically significant portion of the galaxy. Perhaps determining a key factor, other life and its frequency at least as biospheres similar to earth. When Drake came up with it to set the agenda at a green bank conference in the early 60s, many factors were unknown like the rate of star formation or even if other stars had planets, but we are nailing down a few on the left side of the equation. In theory though all factors in such a linear equation are equal, but the presence and frequency of life more complex than shower slime seems to be a particularly important one. Intelligence seems to have survival value in Darwinian evolution and the laws of Darwin should hold true for life there like the laws of Newton do for the planets in the system.
 
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cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Actually, a wrote a piece about the simple linear equation about 20 years ago for a Seti site and speculated about its utility as more factors become known. Especially the development of space borne infrared Interferometry and Spectroscopy detecting atmospheric indications of biospheres in a radius a few of dozen lightyears, a statistically significant portion of the galaxy. Perhaps determining a key factor, other life and its frequency at least as biospheres similar to earth. When Drake came up with it to set the agenda at a green bank conference in the early 60s, many factors were unknown like the rate of star formation or even if other stars had planets, but we are nailing down a few on the left side of the equation. In theory though all factors in such a linear equation are equal, but the presence and frequency of life more complex than shower slime seems to be a particularly important one. Intelligence seems to have survival value in Darwinian evolution and the laws of Darwin should hold true for life there like the laws of Newton do for the planets in the system.
Webb is finding interesting things near the noise floor, possible biosignatures. The next and bigger one should start answering questions the radio spectrum has not disclosed.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Webb is finding interesting things near the noise floor, possible biosignatures. The next and bigger one should start answering questions the radio spectrum has not disclosed.
I was wondering if the seti piece was still around and it was, so I edited it a bit from the perspective of 20+ years!

Who hasn't gazed at the distant suns populating the night sky and wondered? For as long as we humans could think, we have thought about the stars and the spectacular, mysterious vistas the heavens presented to us each night. Today, the average person staring up at the beauty of the unfolding universe, might muse about how life began, whether there is other life out there, and if other distant beings share our awareness of the larger universe. Does other life and intelligence exist among this sea of stars in which we live? Many people think so. If we think deeply about these things, we might speculate on the origin, frequency and variety of life in our galaxy. We might also ask, how rare is intelligence and what are the fates and life spans of technological civilizations.

For much of our scientific history, the answers to such questions were beyond reach and consigned to the realm of speculation and fiction. This state of affairs started to change with the publication of the first realistic strategy for a search for extraterrestrial intelligence in 1959. "Searching for Interstellar Communications," by Philip Morrison and Giuseppe Cocconi, published in Nature, advocated searching nearby stars for interstellar radio signals centered on the 1420 Mhz part of the radio spectrum, known as the 'Water Hole." This naturally quiet part of the electromagnetic spectrum, allowed directed microwave transmissions over vast distances using modest power levels.

Around this time, Frank Drake, a radio astronomer at the NRAO (National Radio Astronomy Observatory), also began independently planning a SETI search. Drake conducted the first systematic interstellar search for microwave signals in 1960. This search, called project Ozma, targeted two nearby star systems and listened in the 1420 Mhz frequency range for possible signal carriers. This seminal work was the beginning of the scientific search for other intelligences in our galaxy.

While planning the first SETI conference in 1961 at Green Bank, WV, Drake conceived of a formula that could help guide the conference agenda. This simple linear equation (which appears in detail on The SETI League website, and in all modern astronomy textbooks) is used to estimate the probable number of technological civilizations that might transmit radio beacons in our galaxy. For the past forty years all of the factors used in this equation were mere speculation, guesses. However, within the present decade, we should see this situation change. The Drake equation, instead of being a vehicle for speculation, promises to become a valuable tool; it will be used to determine many probabilities and to answer fundamental questions.

New technological abilities, scientific instruments and the research programs they generate, will deal with the Drake equation in a methodical way. Let's look at each of the factors that produce the result N, the number of communicating technological civilizations in the galaxy. Furthermore, let's project ahead and try to determine what factors will be known and how accurate those estimates of the factors might be.

R* The rate of appropriate star formation is the average number of stars born each year in the galaxy. Many stars may form each year, but only a certain percentage will live long enough or can go on to become hospitable to life and evolution. Only certain stars will do, but since there are an estimated 400 billion stars in the galaxy, there will be tens of billions of candidate stars.

Using existing data and discoveries from planned space missions and instruments, this number will be known with the most certainty. Current best guess: 1.5 appropriate stars per year.

Fp The fraction of those appropriate stars that have planets. Since it is believed that planetary formation is an integral part of star formation, this number should be high. Recent extrasolar planetary discoveries indicate planets are very common. Information for determining this factor is pouring in almost monthly. Already dozens of extrasolar planets have been discovered. New detection methodologies, instruments and programs are already starting to set the outside parameters for this factor. As the database grows, overall trends should become apparent. Professional expertise, theoretical models and computer simulations will add to these predictive and detection capabilities. Reasonable conjectures on the planetary systems of more distant stars and even the entire galaxy might then be possible.


Ne The numbers of earthlike (terrestrial) planets per appropriate star. Planets must be in the zone around their star where liquid water can exist. This is the habitable area around a star, where at least it's possible for life to exist and where biospheres might form, thrive and persist.

Missions currently in the planning or development stages will place very sensitive instruments into space within this decade. These instruments will be able to detect terrestrial planets, and even biospheres, several dozens of light years distant.

Fl The fraction of the above worlds that have life. This factor currently has no known value. To a large extent it depends on the nature of life. Is life an inevitable consequence of natural processes, like the progressive formation of more complex elements in stars? The creation and mixing of complex organic molecules, amino acids and even DNA precursors, have all been observed in interstellar nebula; this appears to be a common process in the universe. How common is it for this organic sludge to form life, at least carbon-based life? We do know it happened very quickly here; life arose on Earth almost from the moment it could exist.

The fecundity of life in the galaxy is a key factor in the Drake equation. Fl is the factor to watch in the coming decade. If life is abundant, then the probability of successful SETI goes way up. If life is very rare, then the odds of finding a transmitting technological civilization are extremely small. I estimate that there are a half billion biospheres similar to Earth in the galaxy (a guess, to be sure, but my own best guess). Dividing a high-end estimate for the number of biospheres into the volume of space our galaxy occupies, results in roughly one biosphere for every 16,000 cubic light years of galactic volume. This is approximately the volume of a sphere with a radius of 16 light years. If these biospheres are randomly spaced, some, at least, should be detectable by future space-based spectroscopic analysis of extraplanetary atmospheric gases for: ratios of water vapor, free oxygen, ozone and methane, that indicate the presence of life. It is assumed the first generation of these instruments could detect the spectroscopic signature of an extrasolar biosphere over two-dozen light years distant.

Determining if other life exists at all, let alone knowing its possible frequency of occurrence, would be a monumental scientific discovery. Whenever we find new biospheres, we will use the Drake equation to estimate the number of potential homes there might be for higher life forms in the galaxy. We should then be able to determine the factor Fl with even greater accuracy over time.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
NASA has its gaze firmly transfixed on the quest for life. It is looking within the solar system for signs of life and is also starting to look toward the nearby star systems. Biology is a big part of NASA's future, and it's getting almost as important as astronomy. Biology and biochemistry have made major strides during the past couple of decades in understanding the basic nature and processes of life. The detection of just one extrasolar biosphere, or other life in the solar system, will found the field of exobiology and a host of others we can't even imagine yet.

Current best guess: We don't know enough about the origin of life to even guess.

Fi The fraction of biospheres that develop intelligence. This equation factor will be one of the most difficult to determine. On Earth, with each successive dominant species, there has been a trend towards complexity and increased intelligence, over billions of years of evolution. Increased awareness leads to more flexible behaviors and diets; this has survival value in an often rapidly and frequently changing environment. Higher intelligence could be a lucky fluke on Earth, or it could be an inevitable consequence of rapid and frequent changes in the biosphere and therefore is quite common. We know that awareness developed as a competitive adaptation to a rapidly changing environment. Intelligence might be a faster way of adapting to changes than simple awareness or genes and might be of survival value. The jury is still very much in session and awaiting evidence on the question of other intelligences.

Current best guess: We don't know enough about life or the survival value of intelligence to even guess.

Fc The fraction of intelligence hosting worlds that are communicating. SETI optimists will tell you they expect some kind of evidence within ten years. Possible results would be more forthcoming with more effort and that comes with more money. In particular, larger radio telescopes and more dedicated observing time would allow us to see further and listen longer.

Current best guess: We will know when we hear from them.

L The average length of time a transmitting technological civilization, or its progeny (machine, genetically designed, or a mix, or something else), or its transmitting artifacts, will persist, measured in years. What's the average lifetime of civilizations that transmit interstellar signals? This is a question that only successful contact with other civilizations can answer and even then, they might not know.

Current best guess: We don't have one and probably never will. So, in 10 years what will the big picture look like? Will SETI pioneers be judged scientific saints or sinners? Will the detection of a nearby extrasolar biosphere, or several, have a significant impact on the pace of SETI research? Will it cause the sudden injection of billions of dollars of government money into SETI and bio-astronomy research? Should the SETI community make contingency plans for a possible deluge of government funding? Should SETI researchers plan for other career goals or ways of beating off the swarms of descending media? A wave of popular interest and speculation arising out of possible discoveries could see the pendulum swing to either extreme.

Researchers want to see any funding spent wisely and efficiently. Governments, institutions and businesses put resources behind those approaches that are likely to yield results. Though they, like all of us, are swayed by natural curiosity and the desire to experience the mysterious. Governments in particular are especially moved by self-interest and the public's attitude towards such things. The discovery of a verdant, new world has been a powerful idea in our recent past and is firmly entrenched in our mythology. Will scores of pristine biospheres serve to impel humanity forward, towards the nearby stars? Will new discoveries motivate us to spend more money on SETI in order to listen longer, harder and more often? Or will a paucity of life in the galaxy revive skepticism about SETI research?

The advent of space travel, and the ability to put sensitive instruments like infrared interferometers into space, will impact SETI research, one way or the other. If extrasolar biospheres are found anywhere within the detection range of these new astronomical instruments, it will greatly stimulate further study along many fronts, including SETI. If no biospheres are found, or if we determine there is a paucity of life in general, it will lower the ceiling on N, the number of possible transmitting civilizations in the galaxy. If we don't receive a signal from the stars in the first few decades of this millennium, then by the end of it we will have a much better idea of what the odds will be of ever receiving such a signal. The prospect of having the ability to determine such things as the origin and abundance of life in the galaxy, a mere 100 years after beginning the serious scientific investigation, seems almost as miraculous as receiving radio signals from a civilization living around another star.

Perhaps when we look up at the night sky ten years hence, we will have fewer things to wonder about and more things to wonder at. The magnificent night sky will not be less mysterious than before, but more. Soon we may be able to look out across the sea of stars and point to nearby harbors of life. Whatever the result of this decade's SETI and life searches might be, we will gaze upon the stars more knowingly, but certainly not less reverently.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Electrician might be a good trade for some young people to get into, I can see a big demand, maybe not for electronics technicians though, they will swap out and dispose of electronic boards. Maybe increase the reliability of chargers and then perhaps they will need less repair.

 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
NASA has its gaze firmly transfixed on the quest for life. It is looking within the solar system for signs of life and is also starting to look toward the nearby star systems. Biology is a big part of NASA's future, and it's getting almost as important as astronomy. Biology and biochemistry have made major strides during the past couple of decades in understanding the basic nature and processes of life. The detection of just one extrasolar biosphere, or other life in the solar system, will found the field of exobiology and a host of others we can't even imagine yet.

Current best guess: We don't know enough about the origin of life to even guess.

Fi The fraction of biospheres that develop intelligence. This equation factor will be one of the most difficult to determine. On Earth, with each successive dominant species, there has been a trend towards complexity and increased intelligence, over billions of years of evolution. Increased awareness leads to more flexible behaviors and diets; this has survival value in an often rapidly and frequently changing environment. Higher intelligence could be a lucky fluke on Earth, or it could be an inevitable consequence of rapid and frequent changes in the biosphere and therefore is quite common. We know that awareness developed as a competitive adaptation to a rapidly changing environment. Intelligence might be a faster way of adapting to changes than simple awareness or genes and might be of survival value. The jury is still very much in session and awaiting evidence on the question of other intelligences.

Current best guess: We don't know enough about life or the survival value of intelligence to even guess.

Fc The fraction of intelligence hosting worlds that are communicating. SETI optimists will tell you they expect some kind of evidence within ten years. Possible results would be more forthcoming with more effort and that comes with more money. In particular, larger radio telescopes and more dedicated observing time would allow us to see further and listen longer.

Current best guess: We will know when we hear from them.

L The average length of time a transmitting technological civilization, or its progeny (machine, genetically designed, or a mix, or something else), or its transmitting artifacts, will persist, measured in years. What's the average lifetime of civilizations that transmit interstellar signals? This is a question that only successful contact with other civilizations can answer and even then, they might not know.

Current best guess: We don't have one and probably never will. So, in 10 years what will the big picture look like? Will SETI pioneers be judged scientific saints or sinners? Will the detection of a nearby extrasolar biosphere, or several, have a significant impact on the pace of SETI research? Will it cause the sudden injection of billions of dollars of government money into SETI and bio-astronomy research? Should the SETI community make contingency plans for a possible deluge of government funding? Should SETI researchers plan for other career goals or ways of beating off the swarms of descending media? A wave of popular interest and speculation arising out of possible discoveries could see the pendulum swing to either extreme.

Researchers want to see any funding spent wisely and efficiently. Governments, institutions and businesses put resources behind those approaches that are likely to yield results. Though they, like all of us, are swayed by natural curiosity and the desire to experience the mysterious. Governments in particular are especially moved by self-interest and the public's attitude towards such things. The discovery of a verdant, new world has been a powerful idea in our recent past and is firmly entrenched in our mythology. Will scores of pristine biospheres serve to impel humanity forward, towards the nearby stars? Will new discoveries motivate us to spend more money on SETI in order to listen longer, harder and more often? Or will a paucity of life in the galaxy revive skepticism about SETI research?

The advent of space travel, and the ability to put sensitive instruments like infrared interferometers into space, will impact SETI research, one way or the other. If extrasolar biospheres are found anywhere within the detection range of these new astronomical instruments, it will greatly stimulate further study along many fronts, including SETI. If no biospheres are found, or if we determine there is a paucity of life in general, it will lower the ceiling on N, the number of possible transmitting civilizations in the galaxy. If we don't receive a signal from the stars in the first few decades of this millennium, then by the end of it we will have a much better idea of what the odds will be of ever receiving such a signal. The prospect of having the ability to determine such things as the origin and abundance of life in the galaxy, a mere 100 years after beginning the serious scientific investigation, seems almost as miraculous as receiving radio signals from a civilization living around another star.

Perhaps when we look up at the night sky ten years hence, we will have fewer things to wonder about and more things to wonder at. The magnificent night sky will not be less mysterious than before, but more. Soon we may be able to look out across the sea of stars and point to nearby harbors of life. Whatever the result of this decade's SETI and life searches might be, we will gaze upon the stars more knowingly, but certainly not less reverently.
Nice!

One thing I’d change is “firmly transfixed” to firmly fixed. Transfixed means run through (usually by a sword or spear) or reduced to motionlessness by great surprise.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Nice!

One thing I’d change is “firmly transfixed” to firmly fixed. Transfixed means run through (usually by a sword or spear) or reduced to motionlessness by great surprise.
It is not necessary to take the Drake equation into the unknowable N, but just to the point of determining the statistical probability of biospheres in the Galaxy, or a donut shaped part of it. We just need to be able to detect them to a statistically significant distance to figure out how may there are in the Galaxy, if any! If we do detect any, then other more sensitive future instruments could detect air pollution in their atmospheres.

My guess is single cell life is common, multicellular organisms much rarer and intelligence even more rare, technological civilizations would be the rarest of all. If one looks at what happened on earth single cells were here like stink on shit as soon as the rock cooled enough, more complex life only started to occur around a billion years ago, but we only have solid evidence from about 700 million YA. Modern man has been around less the 100,000 years and agrarian civilization in the past 10,000 years, less for most peoples including northern Europeans. 3+ billion years to get to cockroach level and less than another billion to get to man, but pretty quick from there on in deep time terms, almost exponential change for life moving from slime to brains that can make shit.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Musings of a stargazer...
Ever read any Scifi by Charles Sheffield?

He mentions something called a DOS, an optical interferometer with a very large diameter able to take pictures of road networks on planets in other Galaxies! A much more modest approach would be missions to solar gravitational lens focal points (quite far out) to image extrasolar planets out to 50, maybe 100 light years. I imagine getting a fix on something moving around its star at 100,000kph, while the star trucks along at who knows what, is hard! Meanwhile the detector is doing its own dance around the sun which is also going Hell bent for leather around the Galaxy, and if you thought calculating inter planetary trajectories and gravity assist boosts was hard! Just getting data back from the thing would require large amounts of directed microwave power, less for a laser though.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
It is not necessary to take the Drake equation into the unknowable N, but just to the point of determining the statistical probability of biospheres in the Galaxy, or a donut shaped part of it. We just need to be able to detect them to a statistically significant distance to figure out how may there are in the Galaxy, if any! If we do detect any, then other more sensitive future instruments could detect air pollution in their atmospheres.

My guess is single cell life is common, multicellular organisms much rarer and intelligence even more rare, technological civilizations would be the rarest of all. If one looks at what happened on earth single cells were here like stink on shit as soon as the rock cooled enough, more complex life only started to occur around a billion years ago, but we only have solid evidence from about 700 million YA. Modern man has been around less the 100,000 years and agrarian civilization in the past 10,000 years, less for most peoples including northern Europeans. 3+ billion years to get to cockroach level and less than another billion to get to man, but pretty quick from there on in deep time terms, almost exponential change for life moving from slime to brains that can make shit.
If we accept the Burgess Shale biota as the first to reach “cockroach level”, half a billion. The three billion years before that were a pretty busy time in evolutionary terms. The amount of biochemical sophistication in any eukaryote is quite high.

As your essay points out, at least two terms in the equation are so speculative that a nonzero lower bound cannot be assigned.

Imo there should be one more term in the equation. It has to do with a correction factor that acknowledges the inherent danger of unilateral detectability. I imagine if we have a finite group N of sapient … civilizations, for lack of a less anthropomorphic word, who are capable of galactic-scale communication, what fraction will choose to do so? Every ecology generates apex predators, so it would be unwise to think the galactic ones don’t. It might be a Bad Idea to radiate one’s presence into the big cold.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Ever read any Scifi by Charles Sheffield?

He mentions something called a DOS, an optical interferometer with a very large diameter able to take pictures of road networks on planets in other Galaxies! A much more modest approach would be missions to solar gravitational lens focal points (quite far out) to image extrasolar planets out to 50, maybe 100 light years. I imagine getting a fix on something moving around its star at 100,000kph, while the star trucks along who knows what, is hard! Meanwhile the detector is doing its own dance around the sun which is also going Hell bent for leather around the Galaxy, and if you thought calculating inter planetary trajectories and gravity assist boosts was hard! Just getting data back from the thing would require large amounts of directed microwave power, less for a laser though.
Yup, I’ve read some Sheffield. He’s up there with Greg Bear for some really big ideas.

The singular weakness of a solar gravitational lens mission (I think that’s a thousand AU out) is that you can only image one tiny spot. You cannot practically slew the optical axis as with any current instrument. You have to decide in advance which square arcsecond merits such a mission.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If we accept the Burgess Shale biota as the first to reach “cockroach level”, half a billion. The three billion years before that were a pretty busy time in evolutionary terms. The amount of biochemical sophistication in any eukaryote is quite high.

As your essay points out, at least two terms in the equation are so speculative that a nonzero lower bound cannot be assigned.

Imo there should be one more term in the equation. It has to do with a correction factor that acknowledges the inherent danger of unilateral detectability. I imagine if we have a finite group N of sapient … civilizations, for lack of a less anthropomorphic word, who are capable of galactic-scale communication, what fraction will choose to do so? Every ecology generates apex predators, so it would be unwise to think the galactic ones don’t. It might be a Bad Idea to radiate one’s presence into the big cold.
I wasn't so much interested in taking the equation to its unknowable conclusion, but just to examine the knowable factors and see what they might be able to tell us about life in the galaxy in general. Any life we are likely to take an interest in would happen on a biosphere and determining their frequency, if any should answer some questions. There are likely to be tens or hundreds of thousands of earth like biospheres with no intelligent life, perhaps more with no animal life. Free oxygen in the atmosphere is a dead, or I should say living, give away that something is up!

There was a lot of microscopic multicellular life preceding the macroscale stuff we see in the early fossil record, bacterial predators and such, sponges, we just haven't found the complete fossil picture and may never will. I estimated it at around a bit less than a billion years, about a quarter of the time life was on the planet. 400 to 500 billion YA for land plants and then animals. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Yup, I’ve read some Sheffield. He’s up there with Greg Bear for some really big ideas.

The singular weakness of a solar gravitational lens mission (I think that’s a thousand AU out) is that you can only image one tiny spot. You cannot practically slew the optical axis as with any current instrument. You have to decide in advance which square arcsecond merits such a mission.
Yep, preliminary selection of targets would be required, but I dunno how much the detector would have to move around to track an extrasolar planet through a gravitational lens focal point. The longer the base line from the sun to the star the less "proper" motion, the more distant targets should be easier to track than the closer ones.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I wasn't so much interested in taking the equation to its unknowable conclusion, but just to examine the knowable factors and see what they might be able to tell us about life in the galaxy in general. Any life we are likely to take an interest in would happen on a biosphere and determining their frequency, if any should answer some questions. There are likely to be tens or hundreds of thousands of earth like biospheres with no intelligent life, perhaps more with no animal life. Free oxygen in the atmosphere is a dead, or I should say living, give away that something is up!

There was a lot of microscopic multicellular life preceding the macroscale stuff we see in the early fossil record, bacterial predators and such, sponges, we just haven't found the complete fossil picture and may never will. I estimated it at around a bit less than a billion years, about a quarter of the time life was on the planet. 400 to 500 billion YA for land plants and then animals. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Cockroaches are far advanced from sponges and slime molds. Sure, there was Ediacara not long before the Burgess fauna, but they are probably down at the sponges and cnidaria level.

Interesting overview:

Yep, preliminary selection of targets would be required, but I dunno how much the detector would have to move around to track an extrasolar planet through a gravitational lens focal point. The longer the base line from the sun to the star the less "proper" motion, the more distant targets should be easier to track than the closer ones.
The optical sensor would have to be nearly motionless to photograph detail in the small area where the lens focus is. Imaging larger areas would probably be like trying to read a newspaper on the ground from a moving car, I imagine. Keeping track of an orbiting planet should be doable without expending much delta v, since the orbit would subtend a fractional arcsecond.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Cockroaches are far advanced from sponges and slime molds. Sure, there was Ediacara not long before the Burgess fauna, but they are probably down at the sponges and cnidaria level.

Interesting overview:
If we look at the ratios of when life arose and how long it took to get to various stages, we might gain some insights, dinosaurs and such were very complex animals, as complex as today's mammals and birds. We have scant evidence in the fossil record thus far, but that is changing all the time, but it appears many species today have their roots in the Burgess shale. I almost visited it once on a trip to Alberta, but the area was a hike and closed off near Emerald Lake. We have an example of one and not much will change until we have something to compare it too, even inside the solar system. The true origin of life could be geothermal activity on ocean moons or worlds with a thin cover of ice, I'm a bit of a panspermia fan, but local, not interstellar. I do figure life might be ubiquitous in the galaxy though, even if only single cell, but there are more than single cells, there are viruses and perhaps other extinct "sublife" that played havoc with the biochemistry and fomented change, at least here on the example of one.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
If we look at the ratios of when life arose and how long it took to get to various stages, we might gain some insights, dinosaurs and such were very complex animals, as complex as today's mammals and birds. We have scant evidence in the fossil record thus far, but that is changing all the time, but it appears many species today have their roots in the Burgess shale. I almost visited it once on a trip to Alberta, but the area was a hike and closed off near Emerald Lake. We have an example of one and not much will change until we have something to compare it too, even inside the solar system. The true origin of life could be geothermal activity on ocean moons or worlds with a thin cover of ice, I'm a bit of a panspermia fan, but local, not interstellar. I do figure life might be ubiquitous in the galaxy though, even if only single cell, but there are more than single cells, there are viruses and perhaps other extinct "sublife" that played havoc with the biochemistry and fomented change, at least here on the example of one.
My mind goes straight to off-color puns on panspermia.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
My mind goes straight to off-color puns on panspermia.
We are likely to have the answers to many of these questions before the century is out, how complex multicellular life arose and when. We are also most likely to have a census of biospheres in a sizable portion of the galaxy, if they exist. Snowballs in habitual zones should not be overlooked either, as earth was one for much of its history. Oxygen is what we are looking for, that carbon oxygen combo with water, oxygen means animal life, the way we understand animal life and things with enough energy to move and think. Nature has often had multiple starts on a problem; the eye evolved independently a half dozen different times and it might be the same for photosynthesis.

I'm more interested in biospheres and their frequency than about receiving radio signals from little green men, but speculation on them could lead to some useful insights. Once we have the capability to reliably detect biospheres several dozen lightyears out, we will know a lot more about the prospects of little green men by 2100.
 
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