The renewable energy changes and policy

[DIY-HP-LED]

Yeah and bacon is best served crispy, but things irl don't always work out like it's sim city. Hydrogen is used in industrialized areas, in advanced economies. Where's there's simply not enough space (and sun hours) for renewables for direct use 'and' enough hydrogen production. There is, and much cheaper, in, for example, Africa and China. So hydrogen is compressed, or converted to ammonia, for transport, and then used in fuel cells or even combustion. Every step involves losses, the efficiency of the electrolyser is just the first.

I posted about a new process for making ammonia from air and water that looks very promising over on the climate change thread. They formed a company called Jupiter Ionics an interesting video, I posted 2 about it over there, it is food related and that seemed a better thread. It might cause some concern for those vested in the Haber Bosch process, if they don't buy the patent and control the process themselves.

Production tends to go where the energy is, like with steel making did with coal, but electric power is transportable too. A place like Australia could be a steel making capital because they have solar potential and are sitting on half a continent of iron ore with Asian markets close by.

 

[cannabineer]

Yeah and bacon is best served crispy, but things irl don't always work out like it's sim city. Hydrogen is used in industrialized areas, in advanced economies. Where's there's simply not enough space (and sun hours) for renewables for direct use 'and' enough hydrogen production. There is, and much cheaper, in, for example, Africa and China. So hydrogen is compressed, or converted to ammonia, for transport, and then used in fuel cells or even combustion. Every step involves losses, the efficiency of the electrolyser is just the first.

I’m one of those people who think crispy bacon is burnt. I thought I didn’t like bacon until I cooked it for myself and found I like it cooked through but not to brittleness.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Three climate technologies breaking through in 2024

From new innovations to old favorites, here’s what to watch out for.

www.technologyreview.com

 

[Sativied]

I posted about a new process for making ammonia from air and water that looks very promising over on the climate change thread. They formed a company called Jupiter Ionics an interesting video, I posted 2 about it over there, it is food related and that seemed a better thread. It might cause some concern for those vested in the Haber Bosch process, if they don't buy the patent and control the process themselves.

Production tends to go where the energy is, like with steel making did with coal, but electric power is transportable too. A place like Australia could be a steel making capital because they have solar potential and are sitting on half a continent of iron ore with Asian markets close by.

I already responded to the first part in a previous post. It's irrelevant for the long term strategies. Just as new battery tech on youtube doesn't affect policies and strategies for large car makers who already know what they will use and build over the next years. You learned about Haber-Bosch a few pages ago, watched some vids on youtube, and here you go with crystal ball conjecture, or what we call translated "watching coffee ground" (tea leaf reading but with coffee). Which, doesn't fit with the thread title. Given that none of those musings affect policy and fits better here. Perhaps first look at what is actually going on instead of what might be. It's not like we have a whole lot of time left and how that time is used is decided now, has already been decided. "We'll see" is N/A.

The context was the industry using hydrogen, of which steel is just a small part, which Europe isn't going to move to Africa or ME. The steel factories itself aren't simple factories you pack up and move and hire a few natives to work in. The whole concept of the EU has its roots in steel...
EU obviously isn't going to move the industry that creates the expected annual demand for which they are now building the billions of dollars costing infrastructure and making deals with other countries. These are not deals and contracts for a few years... One of the main challenges is making it both affordable and profitable. Just like gas from Ukraine. Investors will make their money back and then some before they invest in other method which then still are only interesting if they don't raise the costs even more. No reason to assume it will be any different this time given who's in charge. Ports to transport 'electricity' are being built already. The reality for the next decades is that many ships will transport compressed hydrogen and ammonia across the globe, created with the electrolysers built now.

I posted about Australia and EU's hydrogen network almost a year ago in the Climate thread:

Climate in the 21st Century

THIS is Why the Grid is Ready for Electric Cars! 94,510 views Feb 9, 2023 #norway #windturbine #power Can the National Grid really cope with electric vehicles?! That's the question we get asked A LOT on the Fully Charged Show and so we thought it was time to ask the experts. In this episode...

rollitup.org

Megawatts and Gigawatts...

From EU rules for renewable hydrogen:
"The Commission estimates that around 500 terawatt-hours of renewable electricity will be needed for renewable hydrogen production in
the EU by 2030 (that is, around 18 % of the EU's total electricity production in 2022), and around 46 % of today's renewable electricity production [of which most days none is surpluss]"
"In 2021, 70 % of electrolysers worldwide were alkaline, and 25 % were of the proton exchangemembrane type. Other types of electrolysers are less mature and have a minimal share."

It's a nice idea... building renewable energy sources across the globe, use it to create hydrogen, then come up with something better, and then Africa can use the wind parks and solar panels on their land to meet there own targets... Sounds like something that could happen, in a different universe.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I already responded to the first part in a previous post. It's irrelevant for the long term strategies. Just as new battery tech on youtube doesn't affect policies and strategies for large car makers who already know what they will use and build over the next years. You learned about Haber-Bosch a few pages ago, watched some vids on youtube, and here you go with crystal ball conjecture, or what we call translated "watching coffee ground" (tea leaf reading but with coffee). Which, doesn't fit with the thread title. Given that none of those musings affect policy and fits better here. Perhaps first look at what is actually going on instead of what might be. It's not like we have a whole lot of time left and how that time is used is decided now, has already been decided. "We'll see" is N/A.

The context was the industry using hydrogen, of which steel is just a small part, which Europe isn't going to move to Africa or ME. The steel factories itself aren't simple factories you pack up and move and hire a few natives to work in. The whole concept of the EU has its roots in steel...
EU obviously isn't going to move the industry that creates the expected annual demand for which they are now building the billions of dollars costing infrastructure and making deals with other countries. These are not deals and contracts for a few years... One of the main challenges is making it both affordable and profitable. Just like gas from Ukraine. Investors will make their money back and then some before they invest in other method which then still are only interesting if they don't raise the costs even more. No reason to assume it will be any different this time given who's in charge. Ports to transport 'electricity' are being built already. The reality for the next decades is that many ships will transport compressed hydrogen and ammonia across the globe, created with the electrolysers built now.

I posted about Australia and EU's hydrogen network almost a year ago in the Climate thread:

Climate in the 21st Century

THIS is Why the Grid is Ready for Electric Cars! 94,510 views Feb 9, 2023 #norway #windturbine #power Can the National Grid really cope with electric vehicles?! That's the question we get asked A LOT on the Fully Charged Show and so we thought it was time to ask the experts. In this episode...

rollitup.org

Megawatts and Gigawatts...

From EU rules for renewable hydrogen:
"The Commission estimates that around 500 terawatt-hours of renewable electricity will be needed for renewable hydrogen production in
the EU by 2030 (that is, around 18 % of the EU's total electricity production in 2022), and around 46 % of today's renewable electricity production [of which most days none is surpluss]"
"In 2021, 70 % of electrolysers worldwide were alkaline, and 25 % were of the proton exchangemembrane type. Other types of electrolysers are less mature and have a minimal share."

It's a nice idea... building renewable energy sources across the globe, use it to create hydrogen, then come up with something better, and then Africa can use the wind parks and solar panels on their land to meet there own targets... Sounds like something that could happen, in a different universe.

Whatever their plans, others have theirs's too and it looks to me like batteries, solar and wind power are gonna win a lot of it.

I also looked into what was happening as far as commercializing the new Ammonia process and a Company they started called Jupiter Ionics is making shipping container sized units and will have a few on test with local farmers. Ammonia makes a lot of other things too and apparently; they are not alone in using electricity to make Ammonia from water and air. I'm not even sure we need carbon taxes, since economic factors have taken over or soon will.

Jupiter Ionics: Breaking the Wall to Carbon-Free Fertilisers | Falling Walls

falling-walls.com

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I've become a fan of Tony Seba and the Rethink X crowd, he developed a methodology for tracking and predicting technological changes. Most importantly he was right on several predictions based on his modeling a decade ago, not just right, but spot on, this inclines me to pay attention. What he says about solar, batteries and EVs has come to pass and in some cases, change was faster than even he predicted. I dunno about his predictions about food production but share his views on AI and automation.

It has got me thinking about the utility of things like carbon taxes because economic factors have taken over both solar, batteries and EVs. Going green on energy and transportation alone could cut our emissions by 80% and market forces with iterative improvements appear to be drawing us into that future almost automatically. New technologies displace old ones because they disrupt the value chains of older industries, compete with lower prices and offer more of a benefit to the end user. That is what is happening in solar, wind, batteries and EVs right now, we are starting up on the steep slope of the S curve over the next decade. Solar is the cheapest form of energy production by far and it is predicted to get cheaper in the next couple of years and could be even cheaper still after that, free or dirt-cheap energy changes everything.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

A problem, cameras with motion detectors could help solve, cheap as dirt these days and every charging point should have one. They don't put vending machines just anywhere, but under the care of a small business usually.

Driver sparks outrage after sharing disturbing discovery at vehicle charging station: ‘Just out of spite’

"There are some pretty oddball people out there."

www.yahoo.com

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I don't see an issue for those who keep and pamper classic cars in their garages, they will just need to buy a few 5-gallon cans of gasoline at the local supplier for their Sunday drive. I would expect gasoline stations to be the weakest link in the petroleum value chain, they have the slimiest profit margins and are most vulnerable to drops in demand, particularly urban locations. EVs will reach a threshold point where it will not be feasible to operate many gas station locations. I don't think many of them will end up transitioning to EV charging points with large numbers of drivers toping up at home overnight or once a week from home on the weekends.

I think with the economic factors now or soon at play there will be no need to outlaw ICE cars or ban them from the roads, those that remain will have a minimal impact. I'm not even sure of the value of carbon taxes, unless we give ourselves some kind of credits for helping poor mostly tropical countries transition. The energy transition for poor tropical countries will have more profound implications and improved standards of living for them than for wealthier countries. It is looking more and more like Carbon taxes are a bad idea, at least as implemented or envisioned, shit happens, things change.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

The green gospel!

A new take on environmentalism, a positive one, but it should not mean we stop trying, agitating and voting for a greener future. It says we have reached a confluence of certain technological changes that are now and will have a more profound economic impact in the near future. The timeframes for change in energy and transportation are around a decade to 15 years and the technology adoption rates follow an S curve. I was thinking along the same lines about the economics of the green transition, but these guys make me look like a pessimist. They study change and how it happens, it is their specialty and that is perhaps the problem with some past projections in this area, they were done by the wrong kinds of experts, using the wrong kinds of models and ignored the impact of developing technology.

Here is the first in the series, I posted a couple of others that are worth a watch to get an idea of what I and others think is coming.

What do you think of this vision of the next decade and climate change? It's kinda a new idea and concept for many on the left or right.

Brighter | Episode 1 - The future of the environment is brighter than you think

We are on the cusp of extraordinary global technology disruptions in four foundational sectors: energy, transportation, food and labour. The new technologies driving these disruptions will enable us to solve some of our most pressing environmental problems. The best news? The clean technologies we need to solve these problems already exist.

Join RethinkX Director of Research, Adam Dorr, in the first episode of our Brighter Series, as he introduces topics covered in his new book “Brighter: Optimism, Progress, and the Future of Environmentalism” as well as other areas of focus for the RethinkX research team.

In this episode, Adam defines disruption, and introduces clean technologies like solar power, wind power, batteries and heat pumps, electric vehicles and autonomous driving, precision fermentation and cellular agriculture, as well as artificial intelligence and robotics. Explore the history and economics of disruption, and learn more about how disruptive technologies like these will meet our environmental challenges, and transform our relationship with the natural world.

 

[VaSmile]

I made it my personal policy to switch to electric with my next vehicle purchase. Well my fit shit the bed a week ago and here we are.I was really hoping to get a few more years out of her as I know I would have gotten more bang for my buck with each year that passed, but this will be good enough for what I need it to be

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I already responded to the first part in a previous post. It's irrelevant for the long term strategies. Just as new battery tech on youtube doesn't affect policies and strategies for large car makers who already know what they will use and build over the next years. You learned about Haber-Bosch a few pages ago, watched some vids on youtube, and here you go with crystal ball conjecture, or what we call translated "watching coffee ground" (tea leaf reading but with coffee). Which, doesn't fit with the thread title. Given that none of those musings affect policy and fits better here. Perhaps first look at what is actually going on instead of what might be. It's not like we have a whole lot of time left and how that time is used is decided now, has already been decided. "We'll see" is N/A.

The context was the industry using hydrogen, of which steel is just a small part, which Europe isn't going to move to Africa or ME. The steel factories itself aren't simple factories you pack up and move and hire a few natives to work in. The whole concept of the EU has its roots in steel...
EU obviously isn't going to move the industry that creates the expected annual demand for which they are now building the billions of dollars costing infrastructure and making deals with other countries. These are not deals and contracts for a few years... One of the main challenges is making it both affordable and profitable. Just like gas from Ukraine. Investors will make their money back and then some before they invest in other method which then still are only interesting if they don't raise the costs even more. No reason to assume it will be any different this time given who's in charge. Ports to transport 'electricity' are being built already. The reality for the next decades is that many ships will transport compressed hydrogen and ammonia across the globe, created with the electrolysers built now.

I posted about Australia and EU's hydrogen network almost a year ago in the Climate thread:

Climate in the 21st Century

THIS is Why the Grid is Ready for Electric Cars! 94,510 views Feb 9, 2023 #norway #windturbine #power Can the National Grid really cope with electric vehicles?! That's the question we get asked A LOT on the Fully Charged Show and so we thought it was time to ask the experts. In this episode...

rollitup.org

Megawatts and Gigawatts...

From EU rules for renewable hydrogen:
"The Commission estimates that around 500 terawatt-hours of renewable electricity will be needed for renewable hydrogen production in
the EU by 2030 (that is, around 18 % of the EU's total electricity production in 2022), and around 46 % of today's renewable electricity production [of which most days none is surpluss]"
"In 2021, 70 % of electrolysers worldwide were alkaline, and 25 % were of the proton exchangemembrane type. Other types of electrolysers are less mature and have a minimal share."

It's a nice idea... building renewable energy sources across the globe, use it to create hydrogen, then come up with something better, and then Africa can use the wind parks and solar panels on their land to meet there own targets... Sounds like something that could happen, in a different universe.

One of the issues raised in the videos I posted was the predictions used and the models they were based on, they all turned out to be spectacularly wrong! That is also the data you posted and are basing your assumptions on, and the projections of those organizations do not comport with current reality, so their current projections most likely suffer from the same faults.

I did not say the transition would be easy and there will be winners and losers, some of them big companies with lots of power. First comes electrical energy then transportation and both depend on battery technology. As I said, these people have their plans and others have their plans to displace them in a rapidly evolving technological world. Industry and steel are tougher problems and entrenched industries can impede change, but it almost always turns out they are just trying to hold back the tide of change. We will be using fossil fuels for a while yet and the attitude among suppliers will become sell it while you can. There is a lot of regulatory heat to convert, but soon it will be economic factors too as the technology steadily improves.

It is an optimistic outlook, but I'm not ignoring current realities either, it's just that I believe evolving technology will make many current processes obsolete. People do things for money and economic factors drive things more than government regulations and for certain sectors like electricity production and light transportation the trends are clear, as are the potential benefits to the end user and country.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Joe has got the oil taps wide open, sell it while you can, they are gonna use it anyway, it might as well be American oil and gas. It keeps prices low during an election year and the Midwest happy. Cheap gas might not do much for new EV sales though, but the battery factories are still being built and the new batteries will be better than the old batteries.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745770096126214318

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

One issue with hydrogen apparently solved. Innovations are happening in all sectors at once globally now, technical developments that took decades are now done in months and researchers are all connected by the internet.

“Cannot Be Explained” – Scientists Unveil Revolutionary SS-H2 Steel

A team headed by Professor Mingxin Huang from the University of Hong Kong's Department of Mechanical Engineering has achieved a significant advancement in the field of stainless steel. This recent innovation focuses on the development of stainless steel designed for hydrogen applications, known as S

scitechdaily.com

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Speaking of innovations, time from the lab to the fab has been reduced too and AI is playing an increasing role. Mind you I'm not a fan of carbon capture, but in the future if we have the extra energy we might do some mitigation, for now there are plenty of sources of industrial carbon they can use.

Climate alchemy: Team turns carbon dioxide into super-strong fibers

In an effort to mitigate human-caused climate warming, scientists are focused on ways to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. One of the more novel ways to do this has just been announced by scientists at the Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL) and Columbia University (CU).

newatlas.com

 

[VaSmile]

Joe has got the oil taps wide open, sell it while you can, they are gonna use it anyway, it might as well be American oil and gas. It keeps prices low during an election year and the Midwest happy. Cheap gas might not do much for new EV sales though, but the battery factories are still being built and the new batteries will be better than the old batteries.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745770096126214318

My power rate is between $0.091-0.15/kwh battery holds 66kwh= $8-11 full charge 210ish miles
Gas is 2.80 210÷30mpg 7gallons x2.8= $19.6
Gas will only go up in terms of long term average while power rates will go down with the expansion of solar.
My house is not suitable for panels but my rents already got them up

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

This appears to make no sense, where are they getting the investment capital, how will they transport it (the transport infrastructure is frozen and decayed) and who are they going to sell it to?

Oil Drilling Is Booming in Russia Despite Western Sanctions | OilPrice.com

Drilling at Russia’s oil production wells likely beat a post-Soviet record in 2023, according to industry data Bloomberg has seen

oilprice.com

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

My power rate is between $0.091-0.15/kwh battery holds 66kwh= $8-11 full charge 210ish miles
Gas is 2.80 210÷30mpg 7gallons x2.8= $19.6
Gas will only go up in terms of long term average while power rates will go down with the expansion of solar.
My house is not suitable for panels but my rents already got them up

The average daily commute is less than 50 miles a day and an EV plugged in overnight should cut it for most folks, even with high power rates an EV is cheaper than even cheap gas, with a bit of solar at home and net metering transportation energy can be free for many people in the near future or even now, as you demonstrate.

High gas prices do tend to drive people to EVs, but expect Joe to keep them low, America is the world's largest oil and gas producer so sell it while you can, if you know what is coming over the next decade, and it makes getting reelected easier without people bitching about gas prices.

 

[cannabineer]

I made it my personal policy to switch to electric with my next vehicle purchase. Well my fit shit the bed a week ago and here we are.View attachment 5360372I was really hoping to get a few more years out of her as I know I would have gotten more bang for my buck with each year that passed, but this will be good enough for what I need it to be

as another Fit owner, what happened?

 

[VaSmile]

as another Fit owner, what happened?

PCM issues. Mechanic couldn't deal with it said I would have to take it to the dealership. Dealer said if it needed to be replaced it would be $2500(more then the car was worth if running properly, with body damage and 240k miles(60k hard pizza delivery) and i smoked both weed and cigs in it, kids trashed the back seats) reprogramming was variable but diagnostics was $180 up front, dealership is the most expensive place to get work done. If I would have taken it in when issues first started I probably would have been OK but I let it go to long.

 

[VaSmile]

The average daily commute is less than 50 miles a day and an EV plugged in overnight should cut it for most folks, even with high power rates an EV is cheaper than even cheap gas, with a bit of solar at home and net metering transportation energy can be free for many people in the near future or even now, as you demonstrate.

High gas prices do tend to drive people to EVs, but expect Joe to keep them low, America is the world's largest oil and gas producer so sell it while you can, if you know what is coming over the next decade, and it makes getting reelected easier without people bitching about gas prices.

Joe/any pres only has so much control, gas is always cheap in winter and prices will spike back up in the summer peak seasons. No one in the west is playing nice with OPEC right now and they could decide to try and F us anytime. With Germany being one of the hardest hit with energy/gas prices as a fallout of the Russia embargo I expect BMW/MB/VW to jump head first into R&D to the point of competing with US/China real fast