The renewable energy changes and policy

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Im going from the assumption that if they were onto something and using accepted methods, there’d be some media buzz that Google would readily reveal. No buzz. Since I cannot get a perspective on their quality and bias, I lose interest. Too many salesmen; not enough reviewers.
When the dairy and livestock farmers are up in arms and rural America is freaking out, we will know the cause isn't really Biden, but technology and capitalism. I doubt we would be able to explain it to the people afflicted though!
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
If the changes come to the dairy and livestock farming industries as predicted in the time frame predicted, then the democrats should be in power for most of it. Provided they win in 2024 and the republicans continue to destroy themselves. Most of the rural districts that would be affected by the industry changes are republican and rural, no loss for the democrats in the current political environment, so not much cost in screwing them with policy! If some liberal policy wonk in the democratic administration liked the idea of depopulating the troublesome Midwest! o_O

If the democrats win it might mean the end of ethanol subsidies and the deal farmers are getting in general, after all they hate their guts so no loss there. The ruin of the dairy and livestock industries might be soon at hand and having the buffalo roam in the Midwest again is a romantic idea for some. The conspiracy theories will be rampant and foxnews will have George Soros resurrected from his future grave. It will all be Biden's fault as they take ad revenue from the big corporations screwing their rural audience with the new tech. Like I said, from a purely political pragmatic POV, the democrats might just let much of Red rural America wither away and let time and technology solve a demographic and political issue for them. Rewilding whole Midwest states is a radical idea for sure! If one looks at the future political implications in the current light, they could be staggering and there might be a whole lot fewer rural districts in congress with many rolled into urban areas.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
11 months ago... Ahead of track on cell-based meats it seems, but cost curves are key.
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Lab-grown meat moves closer to U.S. restaurants

Executives at cultivated meat companies are optimistic that lab-grown meat could be on restaurant menus in the U.S. within months after one company won the go-ahead from a key regulator.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The protein disruption appears on track to me...




Liberation Labs — a startup aiming to address capacity bottlenecks in biomanufacturing — has secured a $25 million government-backed loan to support its first commercial-scale precision fermentation facility in the US.

The purpose-built site in Richmond, Indiana, will have 600,000 liters of capacity and is set to become operational by the end of 2024, said the firm: “The plant will produce bio-based proteins and other building block ingredients at a scale and cost that will fill a pressing need among both new and established consumer packaged goods (CPG) companies and other industrial manufacturers.”


Fit for purpose biomanufacturing facilities
While there is a well-publicized lack of biomanufacturing capacity in the US, said Warner, “what matters is whether the capacity is fit for purpose. I always say we can make these products, but we’re not making them at the price points that are getting wide enough acceptance.”

He added: “The easiest way to explain it is that people are currently trying to manufacture food in 50-year-old pharma facilities, with a cost structure that was never designed for food.”

The new Liberation Labs facility is fit for purpose, he claimed. “It’s a combination of things. It’s about the design of the fermenters, oxygen transfer rates, our ability to run sterile batches, the efficiency of our downstream processing… A lot of the filtration equipment we’re using wasn’t available 50 years ago. We also cover the end-to-end process from sugar [as feedstock for the microbes used as production organisms] to the final product. 80% of CMOS out there don’t have spray dryers on site.

“We can also run a much broader range of organisms than the majority of the contract manufacturers out there. Methanol-fed Pichia [yeast] is a perfect example. There is no facility of any size in Capacitor [an online repository of global fermentation capacity built by Synonym Bio] that was ever designed to make methanol-fed Pichia, although there’s a handful that have been retrofitted to do it the best they can.”...


 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

The protein production disruption for those interested and who might live in the rural areas expected to be affected by 2030...
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This rapid improvement is in stark contrast to the industrial livestock production model, which has all but reached its limits in terms of scale, reach, and efficiency. As the most inefficient and economically vulnerable part of this system, cow products will be the first to feel the full force of modern food’s disruptive power. Modern alternatives will be up to 100 times more land efficient, 10-25 times more feedstock efficient, 20 times more time efficient, and 10 times more water efficient.1,2 They will also produce an order of magnitude less waste.

Modern foods have already started disrupting the ground meat market, but once cost parity is reached, we believe in 2021-23, adoption will tip and accelerate exponentially. The disruption will play out in a number of ways and does not rely solely on the direct, one-for-one substitution of end products.

Summary of Key Findings

» By 2030, demand for cow products will have fallen by 70%. Before we reach
this point, the U.S. cattle industry will be effectively bankrupt. By 2035, demand
for cow products will have shrunk by 80% to 90%. Other livestock markets such
as chicken, pig, and fish will follow a similar trajectory. There will be enormous
destruction of value for those involved in rearing animals and processing them,
and for all the industries that support and supply the sector (fertilizers, machinery,
veterinary services, and more). We estimate this will total more than $100bn. At
the same time, there will be huge opportunities for the producers of modern foods
and materials.

» Production volumes of the U.S. beef and dairy industries and their suppliers will
decline by more than 50% by 2030, and by nearly 90% by 2035. In our central
case, by 2030 the market by volume for ground beef will have shrunk by 70%, the
steak market by 30%, and the dairy market by almost 90%. The market by volume
for other cow products such as leather and collagen is likely to have declined by
more than 90%. Crop farming volumes, such as soy, corn, and alfalfa, will fall by
more than 50%.

» The current industrialized, animal-agriculture system will be replaced with a
Foodas-Software model, where foods are engineered by scientists at a molecular level
and uploaded to databases that can be accessed by food designers anywhere
in the world. This will result in a far more distributed, localized food-production
system that is more stable and resilient than the one it replaces. The new
production system will be shielded from volume and price volatility due to the
vagaries of seasonality, weather, drought, disease and other natural, economic,
and political factors. Geography will no longer offer any competitive advantage.
We will move from a centralized system dependent on scarce resources to a
distributed system based on abundant resources.

» By 2035, about 60% of the land currently being used for livestock and feed
production will be freed for other uses. This represents one-quarter of the
continental U.S. – almost as much land as was acquired during the Louisiana
Purchase of 1803. The opportunity to reimagine the American landscape by
repurposing this land is wholly unprecedented.

» Modern foods will be cheaper and superior to animal-derived foods. The cost
of modern food products will be half that of animal products and they will
be superior in every functional attribute – more nutritious, tastier, and more
convenient with much greater variety. Nutritional benefits could have a profound
impact on health, both in a reduction in foodborne illness and in conditions
such as heart disease, obesity, cancer, and diabetes that are estimated to cost
the U.S. $1.7 trillion every year.

» Wider economic benefits will accrue from the reduction in the cost of food in the
form of increased disposable incomes and from the wealth, jobs, and taxes that
come from leading the way in modern food technologies.

» Environmental benefits will be profound, with net greenhouse gas emissions
from the sector falling by 45% by 2030. Other issues such as international
deforestation, species extinction, water scarcity, and aquatic pollution from animal
waste, hormones, and antibiotics will be ameliorated as well. By 2035, lands
previously used to produce animal foods in the U.S. could become a major
carbon sink.
 
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DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Continued..

Key Impacts of the Food and Agriculture Disruption
Economic:


» The cost of modern foods and other precision
fermentation products will be at least 50% and as
much as 80% lower than the animal products they
replace, which will translate into substantially lower
prices and increased disposable incomes.

» At current prices, revenues of the U.S. beef and
dairy industry and their suppliers, which together
exceed $400bn today, will decline by at least 50%
by 2030, and by nearly 90% by 2035. All other
livestock and commercial fisheries will follow a
similar trajectory.

» The volume of crops needed to feed cattle in the
U.S. will fall by 50%, from 155 million tons in 2018 to
80 million tons in 2030. This means that, at current
prices, feed production revenues for cattle will fall
by more than 50%, from $60bn in 2018 to less than
$30bn in 2030.

» Farmland values will collapse by 40%-80%. The
outcome for individual regions and farms depends
on the land’s alternative uses, amenity value, and
policy choices that are made.

» Major producers of animal products are at risk of
a serious economic shock. Countries that produce
large quantities of conventional animal products and
inputs to animal farming like Brazil, where more than
21% of GDP comes from agriculture – 7% of which
is from livestock alone – are particularly vulnerable.

» The average U.S. family will save more than $1,200
a year in food costs. This will keep an additional
$100bn a year in Americans’ pockets by 2030.

» By 2030, at least half of the demand for oil from the
U.S. agriculture industry – currently running at about
150 million barrels of oil equivalent a year – will
disappear as all parts of the supply chain related to
growing and transporting cattle are disrupted.

Environmental:
» By 2035, 60% of the land currently used for
livestock and feed production will be freed for other
uses. This 485 million acres equates to 13 times
the size of Iowa, an area almost the size of the
Louisiana Purchase.


» If all this freed land were dedicated to reforestation
and efforts were made to utilize tree species
and planting techniques intended to maximize
carbon sequestration, all current sources of U.S.
greenhouse gas emissions could be fully offset
by 2035.

» U.S. greenhouse gas emissions from cattle will
drop by 60% by 2030, on course to nearly 80%
by 2035. Even when the modern food production
that replaces animal agriculture is included, net
emissions from the sector as a whole will decline
by 45% by 2030, on course to 65% by 2035.

» Water consumption in cattle production and
associated feed cropland irrigation will fall by 50%
by 2030, on course to 75% by 2035. Even when
the modern food production that replaces animal
agriculture is included, net water consumption in the
sector as a whole will decline by 35% by 2030, on
course to 60% by 2035.

Social:

» Higher quality, more nutritious food will become cheaper and more accessible for everyone. In the developing world in particular, access to cheap protein will have a hugely positive impact on hunger, nutrition, and general health.

» Half of the 1.2 million jobs in U.S. beef and dairy production and their associated industries will be lost by 2030, climbing towards 90% by 2035.

» The emerging U.S. precision fermentation industry will create at least 700,000 jobs by 2030 and up to one million jobs by 2035
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
The main reason I'm covering this protein production for now is the profound implications it has for society, global warming and politics and those projected changes are relatively short term, around a decade. I'm seeing plenty of indications that the forecasts are on track for the technological end of things. I think this is at least as important as solar, batteries and EVs in the fight against climate change and will have the most profound effects on rural people everywhere eventually, but in the developed world first. It should also have an impact on world hunger food prices and a host of other things we can't imagine, it is important, very important. I'm still skeptical and it is a difficult concept for me and different from the one I envisioned for the future of rural people and farming, food shortages and doom scenarios. Don't get me wrong there will be doom scenarios if this utopian vision comes to pass and it will be rural people and farmers in the developed world first.

Don't think it will be sequential with one product following another, like milk products, then cows, then other animal products, it will happen simultaneously as thousands of companies globally grow not just beef, but chicken (already being done), pork, lamb and WTF knows brontosaurus burgers FFS! There are companies introducing custom fats and others doing fish of various kinds including crab and lobster. Most will use a common ubiquitous and customizable feedstock that will steadily fall in cost, and many might be powered by renewables for energy inputs. Dairy, meat, poultry and seafood markets are in for a shock over the next decade and so is rural America, not many will get away economically unscathed, not even the crop farmers.

It has the potential to make our standard of living high (for most of humanity) and our impact on the environment minimal, while ameliorating the suffering of 10s of billions of farms animals. It also has the potential to wipe out rural America and Canada or a big part of the agricultural world within a decade. Land prices could drop so low some farmers might have trouble obtaining financing, much of it will lose its value to corporate investors if it has no potential economic uses.

I think the whole thing and time frame for disruption is gob smacking! :shock:
 
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CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
^ This is not realistic, Big Ag and Big Pharma are not going to just accept losing that much money. How are they totally ignoring the resistance that is certainly going to be put up by everyone that is negatively affected, because it's better for the environment? More nutritious food becomes cheaper and more accessible for everyone, because that's what corporations always do?

We're just going to pretend organizations like the Maple Syrup Cartel or supply management of many different agriculture sectors just don't exist? It's almost like free trade deals are a thing of the past.

It may be possible if you removed Homo sapiens from the equation, but isn't the whole point of all this change to save as many of this species?
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
^ This is not realistic, Big Ag and Big Pharma are not going to just accept losing that much money. How are they totally ignoring the resistance that is certainly going to be put up by everyone that is negatively affected, because it's better for the environment? More nutritious food becomes cheaper and more accessible for everyone, because that's what corporations always do?

We're just going to pretend organizations like the Maple Syrup Cartel or supply management of many different agriculture sectors just don't exist? It's almost like free trade deals are a thing of the past.

It may be possible if you removed Homo sapiens from the equation, but isn't the whole point of all this change to save as many of this species?
I dunno, I expect a shitstorm, but market forces win in the end, they always do and there are indications that governments are supporting it.

Personally I'm gob smacked by the whole idea.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Looks like another sci-fi invention, the food replicators on the USS Enterprise of Star Trek fame, could soon become a reality.

Just think what that will do to the restaurant industry and it's millions of employees when you can just push a button and have your Big Mac and fries fresh in seconds.

You may not even have to get off your couch to push that button when your personal care robot can do it for you.

The world of my dreams finally arrives and I'll be so old and demented I probably won't even know its here. :(

:peace:
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
^ This is not realistic, Big Ag and Big Pharma are not going to just accept losing that much money. How are they totally ignoring the resistance that is certainly going to be put up by everyone that is negatively affected, because it's better for the environment? More nutritious food becomes cheaper and more accessible for everyone, because that's what corporations always do?

We're just going to pretend organizations like the Maple Syrup Cartel or supply management of many different agriculture sectors just don't exist? It's almost like free trade deals are a thing of the past.

It may be possible if you removed Homo sapiens from the equation, but isn't the whole point of all this change to save as many of this species?
If you look at the slick report in the link above, there is a lot of detail on the economic effects and potential resistance by incumbents etc
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Looks like another sci-fi invention, the food replicators on the USS Enterprise of Star Trek fame, could soon become a reality.

Just think what that will do to the restaurant industry and it's millions of employees when you can just push a button and have your Big Mac and fries fresh in seconds.

You may not even have to get off your couch to push that button when your personal care robot can do it for you.

The world of my dreams finally arrives and I'll be so old and demented I probably won't even know its here. :(

:peace:
Since I've been reading about this, it has kinda thrown me! :o
 

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
Looks like another sci-fi invention, the food replicators on the USS Enterprise of Star Trek fame, could soon become a reality.

Just think what that will do to the restaurant industry and it's millions of employees when you can just push a button and have your Big Mac and fries fresh in seconds.

You may not even have to get off your couch to push that button when your personal care robot can do it for you.

The world of my dreams finally arrives and I'll be so old and demented I probably won't even know its here. :(

:peace:
And that my friend is how Homo sapiens go extinct. :wink:
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
And that my friend is how Homo sapiens go extinct. :wink:
With the robotics and automation economic disruptions in the next 20 years we will all be either free commies living lives of luxury or corporate slaves, useless mouths to warehouse and feed one day. The protein revolution might be coming for the farmers, but the robots and AI are coming for the rest of us! Getting from here to there might present some problems...
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
And that my friend is how Homo sapiens go extinct. :wink:
Lots worse ways to go instinct. :D

Starting to look like our time has come. Let the planet heal for an eon or 10 and see if the next intelligent specie can do a better job.

Who knows tho. I'm hoping to last long enough to see if we do turn this around or it's all going in the shitter for sure.

Will be interesting either way.

:peace:
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member

According to RethinkX, this disruption of the cow will proceed in four steps.
1. Substitution of animal-derived ingredients with those made by modern production methods. This will take place behind the back of the consumer.


We got this popular TV show about the origin of food and how grocery chain products are often scams in some way. Sort of investigate journalism in regards to food products. A couple of years ago they had an episode about how everything was "100% natural" all of a sudden. Food additives were replaced with, I quote, "genetically modified yeast that shits flavor". It's basically the day the nation found out the cheese taste in cheese chips isn't from actual cheese. Same for strawberry yogurt. I remember the lab guy's pleased face when he said he could make it taste like anything.

Point is, it's already happening. I found a PF honey, milk, eggwhite and palm oil company in business already in my area. The global #1 ranked agriculture university, located in Wageningen, is all over it.

The younger generations like 30 and younger here are pretty easy to influence, with like... influencers... few TikTok vids and bam, everyone is into slow-cured cold-smoked giraffe ham or a 3d printed bacon-wrapped dolphin steak, or milk that tastes like the moon. Why murder a cow's little baby cow just so you can have milk! *snowflakes*.

They were a bit optimistic with the timeframe but corona... russia... energy crisis, inflation... not ideal days. Shift to right in Europe isn't helping either. But yeah, also looking at who's involved and invested in NL, sure seems harsh from a dairy farmer to tell his kids they too can become a farmer. We only need a few to produce real-milk gouda but who'd want that. It's super expensive and doesn't taste as well as the new stuff...

"Rewilding" rural areas... now there's a policy I'd like to see.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
SeaHydrogen. From sea water to hydrogen and fresh water and minerals and electricity.


So instead of using scarce fresh water in Africa they could potentially have fresh water as a bonus. Would solve a major objection against the current hydrogen network plans.

"The suggested strategy restores hydrogen to its rightful place as one of the most significant feasible measures towards a green economy."

"As this first step results in a brine water stream, in a second step this flow can be concentrated further with the MD technology, again using the electrolyzer waste heat. Subsequently, salts can be recovered and separated by Membrane Distillation Crystallization (MDC) technology. Salts can be valorised for different purposes, e.g., sodium chloride for a variety of industrial and consumer products or even lithium for batteries."

Different source: "Seawater contains 230 billion tons of lithium, compared to just 21 million tons in conventional land-based reserves. Lihytech estimates that extracting just 0.1 per cent of all lithium from seawater would be enough to meet humanity's technology needs."

So close...
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

According to RethinkX, this disruption of the cow will proceed in four steps.
1. Substitution of animal-derived ingredients with those made by modern production methods. This will take place behind the back of the consumer.


We got this popular TV show about the origin of food and how grocery chain products are often scams in some way. Sort of investigate journalism in regards to food products. A couple of years ago they had an episode about how everything was "100% natural" all of a sudden. Food additives were replaced with, I quote, "genetically modified yeast that shits flavor". It's basically the day the nation found out the cheese taste in cheese chips isn't from actual cheese. Same for strawberry yogurt. I remember the lab guy's pleased face when he said he could make it taste like anything.

Point is, it's already happening. I found a PF honey, milk, eggwhite and palm oil company in business already in my area. The global #1 ranked agriculture university, located in Wageningen, is all over it.

The younger generations like 30 and younger here are pretty easy to influence, with like... influencers... few TikTok vids and bam, everyone is into slow-cured cold-smoked giraffe ham or a 3d printed bacon-wrapped dolphin steak, or milk that tastes like the moon. Why murder a cow's little baby cow just so you can have milk! *snowflakes*.

They were a bit optimistic with the timeframe but corona... russia... energy crisis, inflation... not ideal days. Shift to right in Europe isn't helping either. But yeah, also looking at who's involved and invested in NL, sure seems harsh from a dairy farmer to tell his kids they too can become a farmer. We only need a few to produce real-milk gouda but who'd want that. It's super expensive and doesn't taste as well as the new stuff...

"Rewilding" rural areas... now there's a policy I'd like to see.
Reading about these biotechnological innovations in isolation is one thing, putting them in the context of the RethinkX report takes it to a whole other level and they focus on the implications for farming. The timeframes are shocking though.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Looks like VW needs batteries and Quantumscape has a history of problems scaling, par for the course with this kind of new tech. The recent independent testing of their batteries and their extreme cold weather performance makes the wait worthwhile for the North American and European markets. Such batteries would not have the cold weather issues that the decades old Li-ion batteries have, and we recently saw how well they performed in cold weather! Nobody from such regions will want to buy an EV until they work much better in cold weather, and they can, with the right battery. 80 to 90% of the world population in warmer climates does not need such cold weather batteries and might use cheaper options as would vehicles like ebikes used just in the summer. Riding an ebike at -30C in a stiff breeze would be an experience alright!

 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member

What is ‘new denial?’ An alarming wave of climate misinformation is spreading on YouTube, watchdog says


If you’ve been on YouTube lately, you might have come across someone claiming wind and solar energy don’t work, that rising sea levels will help coral reefs flourish, or that climate scientists are corrupt and alarmist.

These are all false and misleading statements taken from a handful of thousands of YouTube videos analyzed by the nonprofit Center for Countering Digital Hate (CCDH), which has identified a stark change in the tactics of climate deniers over the past few years.

Where once climate deniers would outright reject climate change as a hoax or scam, or claim that humans were not responsible for it, many are now shifting to a different approach, one which attempts to undermine climate science, cast doubt on climate solutions and even claim global warming will be beneficial at best, harmless at worst.

The past five years have seen a “startling” rise in this “new denial,” according to a CCDH analysis published Tuesday, which also suggests this shift in narrative could also be helping YouTube video creators circumvent the social media company’s ban on monetizing climate denial.

Researchers gathered transcripts from more than 12,000 videos posted between 2018 and 2023 across 96 YouTube channels that have promoted climate denial and misinformation. Transcripts were analyzed by artificial intelligence to categorize the climate denial narratives used as either “old denial” or “new denial.”

“New denial” content — attacks on solutions, the science and the climate movement — now makes up 70% of all climate denial claims posted on YouTube, according to the report, up from 35% in 2018.

Classic “old denial” claims that global warming isn’t happening declined from 48% of all denial claims in 2018 to 14% in 2023, the report found. Claims that climate solutions won’t work, however, soared from 9% to 30% over the same period....
 
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