Perpetual SOG Experiment - Multi Genetics

Stardog FPV

Active Member
Breeding with hermie plants is a subpar idea. It’s one of the reasons there are so many unstable herm-prone genetics out in the market. People get a dank hermie plant and then start making crosses. Sadly because of how genetics works some of the offspring will carry that gene and keep spreading it to their offspring.

it takes time and space to do proper breeding. You need to grow out enough seeds to get a good genetic picture and find a real keeper.
This is something very difficult to explain to new growers who just want cheap seeds lol. So many factors at play and the differences between cross breeding and back line breeding.

I've only read about breeding but seems more of an endeavor than I'm facilitated to accomplish lol.
 

Ganja.Queen

Well-Known Member
Breeding with hermie plants is a subpar idea. It’s one of the reasons there are so many unstable herm-prone genetics out in the market. People get a dank hermie plant and then start making crosses. Sadly because of how genetics works some of the offspring will carry that gene and keep spreading it to their offspring.

it takes time and space to do proper breeding. You need to grow out enough seeds to get a good genetic picture and find a real keeper.
I get what you are saying and agree it can be problematic without proper care (exactly what I've read). However, what I'm reading in different papers and from breeders is this issue is mitigated when you select high quality moms with few male parts at the end of flowering vs a plant that is genetically prone to being a hermie. This difference is crucial. That's why what I quoted says:

"Remember that a selfed hermaphrodite gives rise to more hermaphrodites, but a selfed pistillate plant that has given rise to a limited number of staminate flowers in response to environmental stresses should give rise to nearly all pistillate offspring."

The key is only a few male parts (response to stress hermie) vs riddled with male parts (genetic hermie).

To use an analogy: if your dad had a birth defect and was missing an arm, you could inherit that trait and be born missing an arm. But, if your dad had his arm cut off due to an accident, you can't inherit that trait. In the same vein, breeding with plants that show hermaphroditic traits due to stress rather than genetics helps in minimizing the risk of passing on undesirable traits.

As a hobbyist, careful selection and testing can still yield high-quality plants even if there isn't as much diversity as a commercial breeder. I mostly just want to grow plants I like the taste and high of and learn about genetics. I'm never intending to sell or produce anything but for my needs and for fam.
 

Ganja.Queen

Well-Known Member
This is something very difficult to explain to new growers who just want cheap seeds lol. So many factors at play and the differences between cross breeding and back line breeding.

I've only read about breeding but seems more of an endeavor than I'm facilitated to accomplish lol.
I'm definitely not a new grower or just here for cheap seeds. I've grown for over 10 years and am very interested in the science behind genetics and the expression of phenotypes.
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I get what you are saying and agree it can be problematic without proper care (exactly what I've read). However, what I'm reading in different papers and from breeders is this issue is mitigated when you select high quality moms with few male parts at the end of flowering vs a plant that is genetically prone to being a hermie. This difference is crucial. That's why what I quoted says:

"Remember that a selfed hermaphrodite gives rise to more hermaphrodites, but a selfed pistillate plant that has given rise to a limited number of staminate flowers in response to environmental stresses should give rise to nearly all pistillate offspring."

The key is only a few male parts (response to stress hermie) vs riddled with male parts (genetic hermie).

To use an analogy: if your dad had a birth defect and was missing an arm, you could inherit that trait and be born missing an arm. But, if your dad had his arm cut off due to an accident, you can't inherit that trait. In the same vein, breeding with plants that show hermaphroditic traits due to stress rather than genetics helps in minimizing the risk of passing on undesirable traits.

As a hobbyist, careful selection and testing can still yield high-quality plants even if there isn't as much diversity as a commercial breeder. I mostly just want to grow plants I like the taste and high of and learn about genetics. I'm never intending to sell or produce anything but for my needs and for fam.
You should totally do whatever brings you enjoyment.

Any plant that produces hermaphrodite traits has in increased rate of reproduction of those traits.

yes plants that only produce a few late flower male parts produce less hermie offspring then pure hermie parents.

they still produce more hermie offspring then using parents that do not express those genes.
 

Ganja.Queen

Well-Known Member
You should totally do whatever brings you enjoyment.

Any plant that produces hermaphrodite traits has in increased rate of reproduction of those traits.

yes plants that only produce a few late flower male parts produce less hermie offspring then pure hermie parents.

they still produce more hermie offspring then using parents that do not express those genes.
With all due respect, that's not what legendary breeders like Soma or well respected authors on Cannabis botany like Greg Green or Robert Connell Clarke say. If done properly, you have a 95% chance of all female plants with very few hermies.

But, maybe you know about new research or evidence somewhere that I missed. If you have any evidence Rodelization results in increased chances of hermaphrodites and the science has changed since these people researched or directly did testing, I would love to see it. And I don't mean that sarcastically at all. I'm much more interested in facts than being right.

Aside from the former sources, I asked A.I. about it lol...

"The process of rodelization involves inducing female cannabis plants to produce male pollen sacs in response to stress, which can then be used to fertilize other female plants, resulting in feminized seeds. While this method is seen as a natural and stress-free approach to producing feminized seeds, it can increase the chances of hermaphroditic traits in the offspring if not managed correctly."

Which, is in line with what I quoted in the book.

Burden of proof is in your court.
 
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Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I have nothing to prove or argue about. My post agreed with your research. Using rodelized plants will produce feminized seeds with low amounts of hermies.

I simply added that using plants which don’t produce hermie traits at all will result in even less.

I’ll grow feminized seeds some times, but I greatly prefer regular seeds, especially if you are trying to do any breeding to get the best results possible.

I’m also a firm believer in pheno hunting plants that will grow best in your grow, rather then trying to take in cuts from others.
 

Ganja.Queen

Well-Known Member
I just prefer my plants with no males parts, even a few can produce unwanted seeds.
And I can respect that. I'm not trying to convince you. Everything in this thread is what I'm doing for my grow and my curiosity. If it's a subpar idea for you and your situation that's cool. This is what I'm doing.
 

Ganja.Queen

Well-Known Member
Now that that is done.anyzhing new with the plants :)
Perfect timing :-P

Found 2 seeds in bud I was smoking. One called Jordanz (Gary Payton x Runtz) and Thai Jack (some kind of Thai x jack Herer?). Both were solid smoke and germed so I guess I'm rolling with it. Would classify them as midgrade. Don't know if it's the genetics or how they grew so I'm curious how they'll be in my setup.

bagseed.jpg

Mawai is doing well, even if maybe a little heavy on the N.

malawi.jpg

Third cheese is showing different characteristics than her sisters

cheese.jpg

Since Guava Fritter was an unplanned addition, she'll be first as tribute for a rodelization experiment. The plan is to flower her to ripeness until male parts show and see if I can get pollen / seeds made on just her. This method produces only a bit of seeds, but I would like to grow them out and see what happens.

gf.jpg
 

Ganja.Queen

Well-Known Member
GG#4 Original Glue from Sensible Seeds wouldn't germ, neither seed. Kind of disappointing but they were free so eh, it happens.

Started germing Amnesia Lemon (Sensible), Glookies (Barney's Farm), and Mimosa EVO (Barney's Farm).
 
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