Perpetual SOG Experiment - Multi Genetics

[Stardog FPV]

Breeding with hermie plants is a subpar idea. It’s one of the reasons there are so many unstable herm-prone genetics out in the market. People get a dank hermie plant and then start making crosses. Sadly because of how genetics works some of the offspring will carry that gene and keep spreading it to their offspring.

it takes time and space to do proper breeding. You need to grow out enough seeds to get a good genetic picture and find a real keeper.

This is something very difficult to explain to new growers who just want cheap seeds lol. So many factors at play and the differences between cross breeding and back line breeding.

I've only read about breeding but seems more of an endeavor than I'm facilitated to accomplish lol.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

Breeding with hermie plants is a subpar idea. It’s one of the reasons there are so many unstable herm-prone genetics out in the market. People get a dank hermie plant and then start making crosses. Sadly because of how genetics works some of the offspring will carry that gene and keep spreading it to their offspring.

it takes time and space to do proper breeding. You need to grow out enough seeds to get a good genetic picture and find a real keeper.

I get what you are saying and agree it can be problematic without proper care (exactly what I've read). However, what I'm reading in different papers and from breeders is this issue is mitigated when you select high quality moms with few male parts at the end of flowering vs a plant that is genetically prone to being a hermie. This difference is crucial. That's why what I quoted says:

"Remember that a selfed hermaphrodite gives rise to more hermaphrodites, but a selfed pistillate plant that has given rise to a limited number of staminate flowers in response to environmental stresses should give rise to nearly all pistillate offspring."

The key is only a few male parts (response to stress hermie) vs riddled with male parts (genetic hermie).

To use an analogy: if your dad had a birth defect and was missing an arm, you could inherit that trait and be born missing an arm. But, if your dad had his arm cut off due to an accident, you can't inherit that trait. In the same vein, breeding with plants that show hermaphroditic traits due to stress rather than genetics helps in minimizing the risk of passing on undesirable traits.

As a hobbyist, careful selection and testing can still yield high-quality plants even if there isn't as much diversity as a commercial breeder. I mostly just want to grow plants I like the taste and high of and learn about genetics. I'm never intending to sell or produce anything but for my needs and for fam.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

This is something very difficult to explain to new growers who just want cheap seeds lol. So many factors at play and the differences between cross breeding and back line breeding.

I've only read about breeding but seems more of an endeavor than I'm facilitated to accomplish lol.

I'm definitely not a new grower or just here for cheap seeds. I've grown for over 10 years and am very interested in the science behind genetics and the expression of phenotypes.

 

[Thundercat]

I get what you are saying and agree it can be problematic without proper care (exactly what I've read). However, what I'm reading in different papers and from breeders is this issue is mitigated when you select high quality moms with few male parts at the end of flowering vs a plant that is genetically prone to being a hermie. This difference is crucial. That's why what I quoted says:

"Remember that a selfed hermaphrodite gives rise to more hermaphrodites, but a selfed pistillate plant that has given rise to a limited number of staminate flowers in response to environmental stresses should give rise to nearly all pistillate offspring."

The key is only a few male parts (response to stress hermie) vs riddled with male parts (genetic hermie).

To use an analogy: if your dad had a birth defect and was missing an arm, you could inherit that trait and be born missing an arm. But, if your dad had his arm cut off due to an accident, you can't inherit that trait. In the same vein, breeding with plants that show hermaphroditic traits due to stress rather than genetics helps in minimizing the risk of passing on undesirable traits.

As a hobbyist, careful selection and testing can still yield high-quality plants even if there isn't as much diversity as a commercial breeder. I mostly just want to grow plants I like the taste and high of and learn about genetics. I'm never intending to sell or produce anything but for my needs and for fam.

You should totally do whatever brings you enjoyment.

Any plant that produces hermaphrodite traits has in increased rate of reproduction of those traits.

yes plants that only produce a few late flower male parts produce less hermie offspring then pure hermie parents.

they still produce more hermie offspring then using parents that do not express those genes.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

You should totally do whatever brings you enjoyment.

Any plant that produces hermaphrodite traits has in increased rate of reproduction of those traits.

yes plants that only produce a few late flower male parts produce less hermie offspring then pure hermie parents.

they still produce more hermie offspring then using parents that do not express those genes.

With all due respect, that's not what legendary breeders like Soma or well respected authors on Cannabis botany like Greg Green or Robert Connell Clarke say. If done properly, you have a 95% chance of all female plants with very few hermies.

But, maybe you know about new research or evidence somewhere that I missed. If you have any evidence Rodelization results in increased chances of hermaphrodites and the science has changed since these people researched or directly did testing, I would love to see it. And I don't mean that sarcastically at all. I'm much more interested in facts than being right.

Aside from the former sources, I asked A.I. about it lol...

"The process of rodelization involves inducing female cannabis plants to produce male pollen sacs in response to stress, which can then be used to fertilize other female plants, resulting in feminized seeds. While this method is seen as a natural and stress-free approach to producing feminized seeds, it can increase the chances of hermaphroditic traits in the offspring if not managed correctly."

Which, is in line with what I quoted in the book.

Burden of proof is in your court.

 

[Thundercat]

I have nothing to prove or argue about. My post agreed with your research. Using rodelized plants will produce feminized seeds with low amounts of hermies.

I simply added that using plants which don’t produce hermie traits at all will result in even less.

I’ll grow feminized seeds some times, but I greatly prefer regular seeds, especially if you are trying to do any breeding to get the best results possible.

I’m also a firm believer in pheno hunting plants that will grow best in your grow, rather then trying to take in cuts from others.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

I simply added that using plants which don’t produce hermie traits at all will result in even less.

Right, but what I’m saying is even if there are a few male parts there are no hermie traits. As far as genetics go, its genetics are treated as a female - not a hermie.

 

[amneziaHaze]

Right, but what I’m saying is even if there are a few male parts there are no hermie traits. As far as genetics go, its genetics are treated as a female - not a hermie.

Female with an ability to change sex to produce seeds.higher than the rest

 

[Thundercat]

Right, but what I’m saying is even if there are a few male parts there are no hermie traits. As far as genetics go, its genetics are treated as a female - not a hermie.

I just prefer my plants with no males parts, even a few can produce unwanted seeds.

 

[amneziaHaze]

Now that that is done.anyzhing new with the plants

 

[Ganja.Queen]

I just prefer my plants with no males parts, even a few can produce unwanted seeds.

And I can respect that. I'm not trying to convince you. Everything in this thread is what I'm doing for my grow and my curiosity. If it's a subpar idea for you and your situation that's cool. This is what I'm doing.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

Now that that is done.anyzhing new with the plants

Perfect timing

Found 2 seeds in bud I was smoking. One called Jordanz (Gary Payton x Runtz) and Thai Jack (some kind of Thai x jack Herer?). Both were solid smoke and germed so I guess I'm rolling with it. Would classify them as midgrade. Don't know if it's the genetics or how they grew so I'm curious how they'll be in my setup.



Mawai is doing well, even if maybe a little heavy on the N.



Third cheese is showing different characteristics than her sisters



Since Guava Fritter was an unplanned addition, she'll be first as tribute for a rodelization experiment. The plan is to flower her to ripeness until male parts show and see if I can get pollen / seeds made on just her. This method produces only a bit of seeds, but I would like to grow them out and see what happens.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

GG#4 Original Glue from Sensible Seeds wouldn't germ, neither seed. Kind of disappointing but they were free so eh, it happens.

Started germing Amnesia Lemon (Sensible), Glookies (Barney's Farm), and Mimosa EVO (Barney's Farm).

 

[amneziaHaze]

You doing sog from seed?

 

[Ganja.Queen]

You doing sog from seed?

From clone. Right now the goal is to grow bonsai moms and have a battle of the clones to see which moms stay.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

What a difference 5 days makes.

 

[Ganja.Queen]

Pretty epic thread and has me thinking...leaving here in case of interest to anyone.

The Lost Art of Foliar Feeding

The lost art of foliar feeding One of the things I see most people asking about how to increase their bud size, they want the newest big bloom gut buster on the market, and run out to send large amounts of money on it. FOLIAR FEEDING is the easiest and cheapest ways to increase your size...

rollitup.org

Essentially results in increased yields. Studies referenced in the thread. I may decide to incorporate this and later compare clones with and without daily foliar feeds.

I got the idea to check it out when Mike from The Village and Symbiotic Genetics (original breeder of Mimosa, Wedding Crasher) referenced it.

 

[bgsixxniner]

Yo im lurking and people are trippin on hermies. All cannabis strains have a gene to hermie out, its a survival trait. From the most stable to weakest strains, if you let the most pure, stable female strains go long enough in flower, and i mean weeks after ripeness, up to months if it stays hot enough. It will produce seeds. Almost guaranteed, especially outdoors.
Also if you have a stable top genetic(fem), and you stress it by light leaks or some other environmental stress, under/overwatering overfeeding, but mostly darkness interruptions, the seeds and pollen from that hermie will most likely produce female plants.

Bad hermies are weak genetics from the beginning and with all the breeding happening now most of the strains with those traits have been bred out. Ive researched this, and have experienced it plenty of times, gotta hermie drying now and it looks fire, wont keep seeds from this pheno bc it wasnt stress, its the genetics!!! But that dont mean the bud isnt good. Plus that lil gal is pretty!!!!

 

[bgsixxniner]

Oh yeah Ganja Queen nice plants and grow plan. I love me some micro grows and sog. But i had to give them up, bc its just to much work for me, im lazy!!!!lol

 

[Ganja.Queen]

Yo im lurking and people are trippin on hermies.

Well said, you know what's up

Oh yeah Ganja Queen nice plants and grow plan. I love me some micro grows and sog. But i had to give them up, bc its just to much work for me, im lazy!!!!lol

Thank you! Can't even blame you. What you have going is obviously working hella well, I wouldn't be worried about a micro sog either. If my girls can make it through looking even somewhat as healthy as yours, I'll be happy.