When to start watering to run off coco coir help

[EH40veg]

Thanks for explaining that mate, I’ll check the Ec this time in a clean tray, I’ve got them at about 1.1 right now so will see how they do and maybe slightly increase over the next few days. No worries mate thanks so do you not give any higher than 1.3 EC in flower as well I’ve seen people talking about going as high as 2 EC.

But yeah mate looking bigger and starting to see the roots come out the bottom on a couple of them probs won’t be a lot longer until I need to transplant them into medium sized pots. I’ll post a pic up of how they’re looking in the next 10/15 mins when I feed them.

One on the back left with those marks on the leafs, its dropping a little dk if that’s just coz I’m going to feed them and they’re hungry or what, but the marks haven’t seemed to get any worse since I started giving the plant some calmag.

 

[EH40veg]

One on the back left with those marks on the leafs, its dropping a little dk if that’s just coz I’m going to feed them and they’re hungry or what, but the marks haven’t seemed to get any worse since I started giving the plant some calmag.

These two looking a little funny

 

[EH40veg]

These two looking a little funny

Checked the runoff as well went in as 1.1 out as 1.0

 

[ec121]

Thanks for explaining that mate, I’ll check the Ec this time in a clean tray, I’ve got them at about 1.1 right now so will see how they do and maybe slightly increase over the next few days. No worries mate thanks so do you not give any higher than 1.3 EC in flower as well I’ve seen people talking about going as high as 2 EC.

But yeah mate looking bigger and starting to see the roots come out the bottom on a couple of them probs won’t be a lot longer until I need to transplant them into medium sized pots. I’ll post a pic up of how they’re looking in the next 10/15 mins when I feed them.

Boring stuff:

Plants can be trained to take a pretty high EC. In order for the plant to get water from outside its roots (the coco) to inside its roots, there needs to a higher concentration of dissolved solids inside the water of the root cells than outside the roots because water molecules flow from lower dissolved solids to higher dissolved solids (osmosis) to reach equilibrium in dissolved solids on both sides.

How a plant manages this is it produces sugars to increase the dissolved solids inside the roots so that water can flow from the high EC water into the roots. If the EC outside the roots gets too high too quickly and it can't manufacture enough sugars quickly enough, then water will actually get sucked out of the roots because water travels from lower dissolved solids to higher dissolved solids, even if it's not in the direction we want.

Relevant stuff:

All of that is to say that if one gradually keeps increasing the EC, the plant will continue to manufacture more and more sugars to process the high EC feed.

This is why some people can feed as high as 3.0 EC and why some cannabis nute lines will show pretty high EC schedules in their charts - that, and because it sells more nutes .

However, when it's manufacturing more and more sugars to ensure it can get water from high EC feed, it's expending energy on doing that. It only has so much energy per day and we want as much of that energy as it can to be put toward growth. If the EC is kept at the EC that the plant has come to expect, then it can focus its energy toward growth.

The nice thing about checking your runoff EC is it will tell you. If you bump it up to 1.7 and the runoff starts coming out at 2.2, then you're getting into a danger zone. The plant will likely not exhibit any problems visually yet, so if one isn't monitoring runoff EC, they might be inclined to keep bumping it up rather than taking remedial action and then be surprised when the plant goes to shit.

 

[medidedicated]

They look like they progressed a lot since the last I saw them, nice job! They must be happy.

 

[EH40veg]

Boring stuff:

Plants can be trained to take a pretty high EC. In order for the plant to get water from outside its roots (the coco) to inside its roots, there needs to a higher concentration of dissolved solids inside the water of the root cells than outside the roots because water molecules flow from lower dissolved solids to higher dissolved solids (osmosis) to reach equilibrium in dissolved solids on both sides.

How a plant manages this is it produces sugars to increase the dissolved solids inside the roots so that water can flow from the high EC water into the roots. If the EC outside the roots gets too high too quickly and it can't manufacture enough sugars quickly enough, then water will actually get sucked out of the roots because water travels from lower dissolved solids to higher dissolved solids, even if it's not in the direction we want.

Relevant stuff:

All of that is to say that if one gradually keeps increasing the EC, the plant will continue to manufacture more and more sugars to process the high EC feed.

This is why some people can feed as high as 3.0 EC and why some cannabis nute lines will show pretty high EC schedules in their charts - that, and because it sells more nutes .

However, when it's manufacturing more and more sugars to ensure it can get water from high EC feed, it's expending energy on doing that. It only has so much energy per day and we want as much of that energy as it can to be put toward growth. If the EC is kept at the EC that the plant has come to expect, then it can focus its energy toward growth.

The nice thing about checking your runoff EC is it will tell you. If you bump it up to 1.7 and the runoff starts coming out at 2.2, then you're getting into a danger zone. The plant will likely not exhibit any problems visually yet, so if one isn't monitoring runoff EC, they might be inclined to keep bumping it up rather than taking remedial action and then be surprised when the plant goes to shit.

Thanks mate quite technical stuff but yeah true anything to get you to buy more haha I feel like a lot of the guides are quite high.

Yeah thanks mate gives you a better idea when trying to read the plants. When I checked the other day runoff seemed all good.

One of one them the leafs are still drooping slightly but seemed to be getting better not sure if they were over watered yesterday. I’ll post a pic later on when the lights go on and see how they’re doing then.

 

[EH40veg]

They look like they progressed a lot since the last I saw them, nice job! They must be happy.

Yeah thanks mate definitely grew quite a bit since then I must have stunted the growth a little at first coz this is my first time using coco and I was just giving them water for the first few days, didn’t realise I was to add nutes from seedling haha.

 

[EH40veg]

Yeah thanks mate definitely grew quite a bit since then I must have stunted the growth a little at first coz this is my first time using coco and I was just giving them water for the first few days, didn’t realise I was to add nutes from seedling haha.

Didn’t realise how breathable it was as well water flows through quite easy, I was worried about water logging it at first haha

 

[EH40veg]

These are the ones I was talking about here with the drooping leafs, will check the runoff and see what that says if they need more food or less possibly? Front left 2 in the larger photo

 

[medidedicated]

I dont normally check runoff till about a month in, its pretty small and wont take up much. Id say droop is more related to too much dryback and or sudden change in dampness.

If not that Id check lighting, is it too close or far? Is it too cold or hot? Humidity too low or high? Scanned thread didnt see that specified.

Though as threads age get longer I tend to recap my conditions and etc or just answer any questions I get. Just realized that. I still get help on mine thats 344 replies long lol.

Anyway, Im new too but must say for 10 days since your 1st post theyre chuggin along nicely. I wouldnt worry. Not just yet at least lol.

 

[medidedicated]

As for the droop again, to include that I get a consistent perk due to consistent not so severe dry intervals. Seems like youre hand feeding when you can, it may be due to that. I did see a strain droop and perk through light cycles.

So ya I wouldnt worry about that.

 

[medidedicated]

If the coco isnt rinsed and too much peat it can waterlog though which Id think droop can indicate idk what yall said those conditions were I only scanned for numbers like temp rh ppfd.

But even if you didnt, many people get away with not. I just try to do my best with the basics so its easier to diagnose my issues and others help me.

 

[EH40veg]

I dont normally check runoff till about a month in, its pretty small and wont take up much. Id say droop is more related to too much dryback and or sudden change in dampness.

If not that Id check lighting, is it too close or far? Is it too cold or hot? Humidity too low or high? Scanned thread didnt see that specified.

Though as threads age get longer I tend to recap my conditions and etc or just answer any questions I get. Just realized that. I still get help on mine thats 344 replies long lol.

Anyway, Im new too but must say for 10 days since your 1st post theyre chuggin along nicely. I wouldnt worry. Not just yet at least lol.

Could maybe be to much dry back maybe I need to feed them slightly more feeding them about 100-150mls a day atm getting about 20% runoff, but doesn’t seem like that the coco is still nice and damp / wet.

I think the lights ok it’s a 250w LED dimmed to 60% got it 20 inches away from canopy, it’s sitting about 23 degrees Celsius lights on and about 18 lights off and humidity at 65% got a humidifier I just set on auto mode to sit at 65%.

But yeah mate went on for quite a while now but learnt quite a lot from this thread alone so always good. Yeah thanks mate they have came on a lot since I first posted, yeah true mate nothing to bad yet hopefully it will pass in the next couple days.

 

[EH40veg]

If the coco isnt rinsed and too much peat it can waterlog though which Id think droop can indicate idk what yall said those conditions were I only scanned for numbers like temp rh ppfd.

But even if you didnt, many people get away with not. I just try to do my best with the basics so its easier to diagnose my issues and others help me.

I’m not 100% about the ppfd are any of those apps that use the phone camera to tell you ppfd of the lights any good?

 

[medidedicated]

Ok sounds like my veg room right now, I think Im having damage from cranking them to 100% but put back to 25% or little over. I turned it up to raise temps to 72F or about 23c too but had to turn them down.

I grew over 10 clones so Im hoping thats it but speaking of all this I should check runoff now that theyre older. 75% of the time its the light.

Id say those apps are good but they may of mislead me. Also tried to turn lights up to get 600ppfd vs 300 but probably burned my plants.

Im starting to think its easier to mess them up with not dialing in the light every other day vs flower. Probably because they just thrive for light but not in veg.

Humidity sounds good for this phase and coco I looked closely already before first post today. I didnt see them too dry but idk when the last water was from that pic.

I appearently was wrong about feeding 8x a day or 2x a day veg you can overwater coco maybe not in theory. But in reality it can cause gnats, root aphids, molds, bacterias to over throw the plant.

I lost 4 of 8 oz in one plant from it, something along those lines of cause. Having one comment whos had countless experience.

 

[EH40veg]

Ok sounds like my veg room right now, I think Im having damage from cranking them to 100% but put back to 25% or little over. I turned it up to raise temps to 72F or about 23c too but had to turn them down.

I grew over 10 clones so Im hoping thats it but speaking of all this I should check runoff now that theyre older. 75% of the time its the light.

Id say those apps are good but they may of mislead me. Also tried to turn lights up to get 600ppfd vs 300 but probably burned my plants.

Im starting to think its easier to mess them up with not dialing in the light every other day vs flower. Probably because they just thrive for light but not in veg.

Humidity sounds good for this phase and coco I looked closely already before first post today. I didnt see them too dry but idk when the last water was from that pic.

I appearently was wrong about feeding 8x a day or 2x a day veg you can overwater coco maybe not in theory. But in reality it can cause gnats, root aphids, molds, bacterias to over throw the plant.

I lost 4 of 8 oz in one plant from it, something along those lines of cause. Having one comment whos had countless experience.

Aye mate I have a little oil filled radiator to heat it up but not give them to much light stress. but yeah mate I downloaded one of those apps and it’s saying it’s 150 ppfd but just dk how right it is coz I have 2 leds and it was saying the other was like 500, keeps giving me different readings I don’t trust it it’s called photone.

In that photo it had been 24 hours from feeding, I took that photo just before a feeding, they seem to be looking a little better now just a few hours later tbh.

 

[medidedicated]

Yea woops I meant to say they didnt seem too dry meaning theyre wet enough. Once a day is fine until it gets real big and root bound and even then I think once is fine.

I upped the ec to deal with deficiencies the actual watering to me is more a reconditioning of media. Rather than an act of changing something to fix a problem.

Like changing ec or if you feed more than a one part, to change doses like flora trio. I believe thats the point of having all those different parts.

Considering the manufacture chart I followed would tweak the doses. I really dont see how they need a change in things every week, thats insane and goes before I know it.

That often causes me to lose track of which week. One part is my way but you cant really change anything, maybe just add some calmag.

Im rambling now but just my thoughts after growing all year several harvests last couple years.

 

[ec121]

I’m not 100% about the ppfd are any of those apps that use the phone camera to tell you ppfd of the lights any good?

Shane from Migro tested the Photone app against his $600 quantum sensor, and it was very close. If you have a recent iPhone/iPad, it's certainly accurate enough for growers' needs.

 

[EH40veg]

Shane from Migro tested the Photone app against his $600 quantum sensor, and it was very close. If you have a recent iPhone/iPad, it's certainly accurate enough for growers' needs.

Cheers mate I have an iPhone10 so think it should be ok? When I use it, it keeps giving me different readings and saying I need a diffuser should I look into getting one?

 

[EH40veg]

Cheers mate I have an iPhone10 so think it should be ok? When I use it, it keeps giving me different readings and saying I need a diffuser should I look into getting one?

Right now im using a small LED I had from a past grow a 250w one but thinking of putting the new ones I got that fill the tent on their 720w but can be dimmed to 250,400,600,720 was just wondering how far you think I should put them from the plants when dimmed to 250w 20-30 inches?