crankdoctor
Active Member
In dwc I can’t get passed 1.2 Ec. Most strains around 1 is the sweet spot.
Switched from Jacks to 321 to Jacks RO 12-4-16 and getting N toxicity
- Thread starter pizzax1
- Start date
Snowback
Well-Known Member
I finally got my Jack's RO.
Some very preliminary observations:
The bad:
- Even though I was careful not to buy a mix that contains ammonium nitrate, this stuff is still hygroscopic. It's not as brutally clumpy as Jack's other formulas that do contain ammonium nitrate, but there is still something in there that is doing it to a lesser extent. Could it be the Ammonium molybdate? It was relatively easy to break up into the consistency of soft brown sugar by crushing the bag in my hands for less than a minute, but it could be an issue if someone were to buy one of the large bags. The date on the bag was 2017, so maybe that's a factor too.
The good:
- It mixes beautifully. Clean and clear, with a slight blue-green tint to the water. Highly soluble. Not even the slightest particles on the bottom of my clear plastic testing jug.
- Consistently mixed, in spite of the hygroscopic issues. Measured 1 gallon test mixes were all equal values for EC.
- Stable. The PH test mix has been tested twice a day for PH stability. It's been exactly the same for 3 days.
- My water is close to a PH of 7. Mixing at slightly stronger than their recommended amount takes it to a PH of around 5.8, which is right where I like to be with my Promix. It's not a big deal, but it's nice not to have to care about it. This mix is potentially basic, which I prefer because I'm big on run-off and it's more easy to acidify the Promix if needed. That's one of the main reasons that I bought this high calcium RO formula to test.
-No dust. The upside of the soft brown sugar texture of this mix is that it produces no readily detectable dust when scooping and mixing.
-------------------
That's about all for now. Time to do a few testers with it and report back in the future.
Some very preliminary observations:
The bad:
- Even though I was careful not to buy a mix that contains ammonium nitrate, this stuff is still hygroscopic. It's not as brutally clumpy as Jack's other formulas that do contain ammonium nitrate, but there is still something in there that is doing it to a lesser extent. Could it be the Ammonium molybdate? It was relatively easy to break up into the consistency of soft brown sugar by crushing the bag in my hands for less than a minute, but it could be an issue if someone were to buy one of the large bags. The date on the bag was 2017, so maybe that's a factor too.
The good:
- It mixes beautifully. Clean and clear, with a slight blue-green tint to the water. Highly soluble. Not even the slightest particles on the bottom of my clear plastic testing jug.
- Consistently mixed, in spite of the hygroscopic issues. Measured 1 gallon test mixes were all equal values for EC.
- Stable. The PH test mix has been tested twice a day for PH stability. It's been exactly the same for 3 days.
- My water is close to a PH of 7. Mixing at slightly stronger than their recommended amount takes it to a PH of around 5.8, which is right where I like to be with my Promix. It's not a big deal, but it's nice not to have to care about it. This mix is potentially basic, which I prefer because I'm big on run-off and it's more easy to acidify the Promix if needed. That's one of the main reasons that I bought this high calcium RO formula to test.
-No dust. The upside of the soft brown sugar texture of this mix is that it produces no readily detectable dust when scooping and mixing.
-------------------
That's about all for now. Time to do a few testers with it and report back in the future.
If you get all the air out of the bag it will store and stay dry. I get the 25lb bag, take a solo cup full of fert and mix with gallon of water for a stock solution. Its easy to mix from the concentrate/stock solution and you dont have to open the bag all the time. If it does absorb water and cake up it really doesnt matter if you make stock solution with it and mix final solution by EC instead of by weight.
Snowback
Well-Known Member
I have some decent air-tight containers, but this stuff was already caked up before the bag was opened for the first time. As per your suggestion, I will definitely at some point make a concentrate, but after I've worked with it for a little while and come to know it better , and that's if I even keep using it. I like to regularly try new ferts.
Through some quick reading, I discovered that it's the magnesium nitrate that is the hygroscopic ingredient in this formula. Not a big deal though. It still breaks up with not too much effort... Not like the rock-hard clumping of ammonium nitrate.
Through some quick reading, I discovered that it's the magnesium nitrate that is the hygroscopic ingredient in this formula. Not a big deal though. It still breaks up with not too much effort... Not like the rock-hard clumping of ammonium nitrate.
Onelife123
Member
thanks for the tip about getting EC back up after transplant. I followed the loots schedule and the first watering I did was that microbial mix they list. That was yesterday but now I’m unsure what to do next do I give the microbes time to take hold or give them there first feeding. Any help today would be great and very appreciated. Thanks
crankdoctor
Active Member
I as well tryed the ro 12-4-16 from 321. Im in Rdwc and don’t go over 1ec. I also had some clawing and n tox. It leveled out for the most part and all looked great otherwise. I also tryed jacks bloom for 2 weeks at flip just to see if It helped.
Started getting som cal issues switched back to the ro. The stretch for me with it was insane. I guess because of the N.ive not had BB ever do it that bad.
Another thing I noticed is they were brittle and I use silica up to a few weeks flower. Plants were healthy and frosty as can get but I won’t use it again throu flower. Is Awsome for veg! Just my 2 cents.
Onelife123
Member
I’m new to jacks 321 my plants are only in coco now about a month. I have been giving 3.6 of A and 2.4 of B no epsoms salt. But I’m starting to see a yellow between the veins of leaves. Any help ??
Billy the Mountain
Well-Known Member
Sounds like Mg deficiency, looks like nothing.
You may want to reconsider your decision to omit the epsom salt (magnesium sulfate), especially considering you haven't used Jacks 321 before.
Nothing wrong with tinkering, but it's best to stick to the recipe the first time using a product.
Another possible culprit is that your coco wasn't fully buffered and is removing Mg++ from the nutes.
Onelife123
Member
Thank you for the reply. This last feeding I did. I used RO water added 3.6 2.4 and the 1.1 of Epson salt. But the ph was like 4.5 so I added silica after mixing jacks and got the ph up to 5.6 give or take. I read that you add silica before you add jacks. Did I do it backwards? Nothing fell out of solution?? Add how do you read the EC I show a EC Of 1400 is that actually 1.4 ????
7CardBud
Well-Known Member
If you know how much silica you need to use to have a rez at 5.6 pH, usually best to add it first. You can add it after to adjust pH as well.
I always dilute it way down if I add it to a rez afterwards, like 25ml mixed into 2 liters plain water.
1400 microseimens ( μS ) is equal to 1.4 millisemiens ( mS).
Most users on this platform use mS.
I agree with Billy, I would not omit epsom in coco. In something like Promix that is buffered with dolomite (calcium magnesium carbonate) you
can get away with it.
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Onelife123
Member
Thanks appreciate the info and reply
crankdoctor
Active Member
I agree with above. Mag def. Always rinse and buffer your coco before using with 6.0 water.
Silica should be the first thing to go in your mix and let it sit, agitate for a while before adding nutes. I start at a 1/4 ml then work up till middle of flower. More you add the higher the ph. I’m in Rdwc and less is usualy always better.
When I started in jacks right at flower was when I started yellowing up. Mine was calcium def. If it happens to you just add a bit more part b for cal.
But stay on the recommend path jacks gives you and you should stay in the lines all the way throu. Make sure and add that mag! It’s needed or they wouldn’t say use it. A lot of jacks products need it because there is no sulfer and magnesium has it in it.
Silica should be the first thing to go in your mix and let it sit, agitate for a while before adding nutes. I start at a 1/4 ml then work up till middle of flower. More you add the higher the ph. I’m in Rdwc and less is usualy always better.
When I started in jacks right at flower was when I started yellowing up. Mine was calcium def. If it happens to you just add a bit more part b for cal.
But stay on the recommend path jacks gives you and you should stay in the lines all the way throu. Make sure and add that mag! It’s needed or they wouldn’t say use it. A lot of jacks products need it because there is no sulfer and magnesium has it in it.
Onelife123
Member
Thank you. Jacks sent me a feed schedule called ( A and B fast track ) and I was following it Veg called for 3.80 g of a and 2.50 of B Flower called for 5.68 of A and 2.50 of B. That what I was using. But I’m going to follow the original 321 from here on Thanks
crankdoctor
Active Member
You can with good results. I’m sure you’ve looked around and have seen how others mess around with the formula but just use what works for you. Any tweeks you make just write them down so you can look back on for reference. You know how it goes. Some strains like to Eat a lot. Some not so much.
You got this!
Onelife123
Member
Thanks again. Yea first grow in a few years gave it up because of being diagnosed with cancer and given 6 months to live. But here I am 3 years later. I have to get a better tds and Ppm pen. I bought the cheap viosun the blue one I don’t know to much about EC yet so I just use a chart I found that converts Ppm to EC EITHER THE 500 ,600, or the 700 scale
Onelife123
Member
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crankdoctor
Active Member
Nice job they turned out nice for sure. What is that strain. I Hate to hear about your diagnosis. Keep doing what you’re doing brother! Those drs sure can’t tell a Viking when they see one. You and I are both Vikings! I’ve got some crazy stuff going on to and I understand stopping for a while. I had to as well for a bit. Hard to do it when you don’t feel good no mater how much you enjoy growing. It’s my reward. Every part of it. Keeps me going! But there’s days I question is it to much but I just push back harder. I’m in Rdwc so it’s easy at least. Pretty automated. I have aspergilios flavos mold in lungs and there trashed already ha. They said there finding out it’s in weed from bad cures and in dirt and on leaves but not stopping me. I just were a mask out there and keep everything super sanitized. Dr Told me to get rid of all plants even house ones. Nope! It’s my passion. I’m glad you’re back at it. Helps the soul.
Where you using 321 or the 12:14:16 ro in pics you posted. I agree with the meter I would upgrade as soon as you can. A friend gave me a dr meter and it works well and there cheap with a year warranty and they do reward it. Right at end of year mine started acting up and I had a new one within the week! A little slow but so is my blue lab. But I’m slow to so all good.
Just throwing that out there. They are worth it.
Take care of yourself brother. Keep in touch.
Where you using 321 or the 12:14:16 ro in pics you posted. I agree with the meter I would upgrade as soon as you can. A friend gave me a dr meter and it works well and there cheap with a year warranty and they do reward it. Right at end of year mine started acting up and I had a new one within the week! A little slow but so is my blue lab. But I’m slow to so all good.
Just throwing that out there. They are worth it.
Take care of yourself brother. Keep in touch.
Onelife123
Member
Regular 321 formula. They are the jelly Donutz from Humboldt’s
I would ensure that you have a good clean well calibrated meter first. second I would ensure all your your tubes hoses and rez etc is clean at nutrients changes. then I would get a good well calibrated scale, and weigh out with in one ten thousands ie +/- .01, also what I do is add about 5/% RO water which for 5 gallons is about an extra 1/4 gallon. Its important that your RO water is less than 50ppms as whats in it can affect the buffer of any ph you use to adjust it and can cause more of a drift if the ppms are say some bicrabonate as it will break down over time and cause the ph drift. Just some of my prespectieve based on using jacks on and off for the past two years. I personally think it works great and use part A and B with Epson salt, I've used both for RO and prefer the 321 as I think it causes better dense colas.