Fungus gnat experiment #569

[Star Dog]

That's 6wks on the calendar and gnats are still hatching from sealed pots/bag, a few stragglers they're 95% gone.

The plants are doing fine in bags tbf but paint bags are cheap enough that I'm going to buy some to keep mums in, I've ordered 5 I'll see how they are before ordering more.

 

[Samwiseman420]

That's 6wks on the calendar and gnats are still hatching from sealed pots/bag, a few stragglers they're 95% gone.
View attachment 5439330
The plants are doing fine in bags tbf but paint bags are cheap enough that I'm going to buy some to keep mums in, I've ordered 5 I'll see how they are before ordering more.

Good deal man.

I still am searching for where these bugs come from and where they like to hang out. I'm almost 100% sure that they come from the soil. Most likely in egg form. They hatch, and if they are close enough to the bottom, top or sides of the dirt in the pot, they crawl out. I find them clustered near the bottom, tops and the inside of the pot close to the walls of the pot. If you pull your plant slowly out of the pot you will find adults and larvae clinging to the soil on the sides on the roots if you have a moderate infestation.

The paint bags keep them from escaping from the bottom and getting back in as well. But the top and sides are a different matter. I like to spray the top of the soil with Athena IPM and kill anything on top before I water/feed. I will also do a soil "drench" with the Athena every 2 weeks. Basically I make a solution of Athena IPM and water around the edges of the pot so it goes right down the sides and out thru the bottom. This way I don't have to drench the whole root zone with IPM.

I wait 1 hour for the IPM to take effect and then I do a normal feed. That kills any larvae or eggs and it should kill the adults as well that are hugging the insides of the pot.

Why would I do the sides you may ask? Something funny I saw once while I was filling a 5 gallon bucket with water. I had about 2 gallons of water in the bucket and had to set it aside to answer my phone. When I came back there was a gnat on the inside of the bucket about 3 inches above the water line. I said to myself "I'm gonna drown this fucker while emptying the water out into the sink".

I tilted the bucket slowly not to disturb the gnat and placed it over the sink ready to pour. To my fucking complete surprise the water went right over the gnat and into the sink without the gnat even budging. I was like WTF?? I slowly put the bucket back down and the gnat safely walked an inch to a dry spot. I'm like "this motherfucker".

I do it again slowly into the sink watching closely this time. The water goes over the gnat like it's not even there. Gnat is clinging to the side of the bucket and again, to my complete surprise, has a fucking AIR BUBBLE over its whole body.

I shake my head and finally find out why these things don't easily drown when feeding. You have to actually get this shit on the bodies for them to die. If the water glides over them quickly they form that fucking air bubble and LOL all the way to the bank.

So maybe you say, Samwise you freaking out man. I thought so too. So when it happened again while emptying my dehumidifier bucket I had to try it. Fucking worked every time I did it. They form this air bubble over their bodies and it's like nothing is wrong. They don't even get wet.

Beware of these fuckers. They have tricks up their sleeves we can't imagine

 

[Star Dog]

So maybe you say, Samwise you freaking out man. I thought so too. So when it happened again while emptying my dehumidifier bucket I had to try it. Fucking worked every time I did it. They form this air bubble over their bodies and it's like nothing is wrong. They don't even get wet.

Lol yeah that checks out its called water surface tension.

The hairs on insects form a safety bubble for them they're not even getting wet without a wetting agent.

Wetting agent disrupts surface tension somehow and that makes water really clingy, a mite for example gets totally engulfed with just water + wetting agent.

 

[CarolinaPotheadsNew]

The fkrs are hard as shit to get rid of and it only takes a couple to get in the room to start a whole new infestation. This year has been exceptionally bad as the temps here have still been in the 70's and even low 80's and I live near several farms. I have resorted to keeping cans of Hot Shot flying insect killer in my growspace and soon as I see any gnats I gas the room. I also have sticky traps and vinegar/soap traps. I'm still having to top water/feed rt now but I'm using all fabric containers this time and am going to bottom water soon as the roots are ready. Damn it needs to cool off outside so these fkrs don't keep coming in.

 

[Drop That Sound]

 

[Drop That Sound]

 

[Star Dog]

I'm a little concerned about re potting a plant last week then finding two fresh gnats in it today?
View attachment 5438336
I looked inside the bag of coco but I couldn't see anything flying, I'll check it closer later.

Tbf it's the only two I've seen between 6 pots in almost 2 weeks however I've seen 3 in the bag I sealed up 1st a month+ back so that's got me on edge.
View attachment 5438338
Let's see what happens surely that's the end of them now?

After re potting that plant and seeing gnats it made me think there's probably gnats in the medium...there's deffo not, tbh I think it's too dry but that aside I'm testing it?

On that day last week I put some of the new coco into a clear bag and nothing has hatched yet?

At the same time I opened up this one and put in a bag with space around it no fresh coco.

Holy fk 2/3 days later frickin gnats...it confirms to me gnats can last 5/6 weeks without hatching?

To be sure and avoid doubt I sealed these wks back they've not been opened at all.


It's physically impossible to get in/out there and gnats were still hatching up to last week.

 

[Greengrouch]

One of the reasons i do hydro

Same.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Ya you can use whatever you like medi. I was just posting an idea. Wasn't asking for advice. I think you know my answer about BTI. I said it in another post somewhere. Works on small controllable grows. If you have gnats anywhere else in the house they will just get right back in a week later and restart the whole mess again.

Mosquito bits worked great for me. Obviously, if you still have fliers around the house, you keep using it. Eventually no new gnats can be produced, and the fliers go away. Problem solved.

Now, I just don't over water. I get a few fliers, but never an outbreak.

Ive had ~a couple hundred flying around in the tent. Used mosquito bits, within a couple weeks, they were all gone.

 

[Samwiseman420]

After re potting that plant and seeing gnats it made me think there's probably gnats in the medium...there's deffo not, tbh I think it's too dry but that aside I'm testing it?

On that day last week I put some of the new coco into a clear bag and nothing has hatched yet?

At the same time I opened up this one and put in a bag with space around it no fresh coco.
View attachment 5439450
Holy fk 2/3 days later frickin gnats...it confirms to me gnats can last 5/6 weeks without hatching?

To be sure and avoid doubt I sealed these wks back they've not been opened at all.
View attachment 5439453
View attachment 5439454
It's physically impossible to get in/out there and gnats were still hatching up to last week.

We have our answer. Now how to stop it.

What do we do as soil users? I don't think it matters what medium we use. The eggs are in there already. Either companies are not doing what they are saying or the bugs are getting in there later and laying eggs.

This is what my hydro store guy says people are telling him. His advice to me was to soil soak all the medium with IPM or something like Lost Coast before using it. I believe it works but only if you have a safe room to store the pots in. I tried it with my clones last time and it worked well.

I filled 20 half gallon pots with soil. I completely soaked them with water. Drained them. Then flushed again with Athena IPM. I waited 24 hours and then flushed them with a small amount of nutrients. I planted the clones later that day.

It's just so much extra work when you have a lot of plants. If you have a 4 x 4 garden or less it may very well be worth it.

 

[Samwiseman420]

Mosquito bits worked great for me. Obviously, if you still have fliers around the house, you keep using it. Eventually no new gnats can be produced, and the fliers go away. Problem solved.

Now, I just don't over water. I get a few fliers, but never an outbreak.

Ive had ~a couple hundred flying around in the tent. Used mosquito bits, within a couple weeks, they were all gone.

Problem solved for you maybe.
Problem not solved for others as you can see by all the evidence above. Read Star Dog's posts and you see the proof right there. Bugs coming out of thin air? Nope. It's an ongoing battle throughout the whole grow.

 

[MissinThe90’sStrains]

Have you ever tried something like beneficial/predatory nematodes or mites? Sometimes they come in castings or compost, and once established they keep working by eating eggs and larva in soil. It’s something that maybe be worth trying, because it doesn’t require constant applications, and it seems you have a pretty large grow to tend to.

 

[Hollatchaboy]

Problem solved for you maybe.
Problem not solved for others as you can see by all the evidence above. Read Star Dog's posts and you see the proof right there. Bugs coming out of thin air? Nope. It's an ongoing battle throughout the whole grow.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not a simple one and done treatment. You have to keep using it for a while, even after you don't see any fliers. You have to break the life cycle.

 

[Absorber]

I understand what you're saying, but it's not a simple one and done treatment. You have to keep using it for a while, even after you don't see any fliers. You have to break the life cycle.

Bastards are worse than crabs, they fly too!

 

[medidedicated]

I understand what you're saying, but it's not a simple one and done treatment. You have to keep using it for a while, even after you don't see any fliers. You have to break the life cycle.

I used it for months yea it seemed to work at first but they just outbreak eventually and back to as if Im not using it. I have hyopsis miles bugs running around for free idk how they got there but still. Im in dtw coco so if you do rockwool or coco dtw Im having amazing results panty hosing them.

Idk what to say for soil growers or the like. I thought the chlorene was it but I removed that and it actually got worse. For some reason they dont infest my veg tent plants maybe the bti and clorene is enough down there? There are a considerable amount of gnats on traps there though. Idk but Im panty hosing them from the start so dont matter no more.

 

[Star Dog]

This is what my hydro store guy says people are telling him. His advice to me was to soil soak all the medium with IPM or something like Lost Coast before using it. I believe it works but only if you have a safe room to store the pots in. I tried it with my clones last time and it worked well.

Ipa + wetting agent was very effective on adults and larvea on a microscope slide but @20% it wilted the plant badly as a root drench, I left the plant 2 wks after the drench but it didn't recover or even die before I binned it so maybe a weaker solution would kill them and not wilt, thankfully I'm our of larvea but I do kind of enjoy the messing around with this stuff there's always something to learn.

 

[Samwiseman420]

Ipa + wetting agent was very effective on adults and larvea on a microscope slide but @20% it wilted the plant badly as a root drench, I left the plant 2 wks after the drench but it didn't recover or even die before I binned it so maybe a weaker solution would kill them and not wilt, thankfully I'm our of larvea but I do kind of enjoy the messing around with this stuff there's always something to learn.

Star, you can't keep the IPM in the medium for more than 1 hour if a plant is in the medium. Athena has directions for it.

The exact directions are:
1) Soak the medium with water until run off. Vac. This makes the root zone wet so it doesn't absorb too much IPM.
2) Soak the medium with IPM until run off. Vac. Wait 45 minutes to 1 hour. This is key. No more than 1 hour if a plant is in the medium.
3) When time is up soak the soil again with your regular nutrients until run off. Vac.

If you pre soak the soil with IPM before planting you can leave it for a few days but make sure to flush it before planting.

For moderate infestations you have to do this every 3 days for 2 weeks along with a spray routine every 3 to 4 days as well.

The downside to Athena IPM is the price. @ $135 a gallon it's hard to swallow. Plus you have to use 120 ml each gallon for spraying but thankfully only 40 ml per gallon for soil drench. Athena sucks for spraying anyway so I use Capt. Jacks Dead Bug Brew for the spraying @ $32 a quart but you use twice as less and it's 10 times as good.

 

[natureboygrower]

It's been mentioned, hypoaspis miles destroys gnat larvae. Probably not feasible for some, but for the long game, homemade compost is your best bet. It's loaded with miles. I run sips, soil constantly moist, perfect conditions for gnats/larvae. I never have problem with gnats when I use my own compost. It's chock-full of miles. They start crawling out my sips when they run out of food.

Edited to mention coco growers might not want compost in their medium?

 

[Star Dog]

Star, you can't keep the IPM in the medium for more than 1 hour if a plant is in the medium. Athena has directions for it.

The exact directions are:
1) Soak the medium with water until run off. Vac. This makes the root zone wet so it doesn't absorb too much IPM.
2) Soak the medium with IPM until run off. Vac. Wait 45 minutes to 1 hour. This is key. No more than 1 hour if a plant is in the medium.
3) When time is up soak the soil again with your regular nutrients until run off. Vac.

If you pre soak the soil with IPM before planting you can leave it for a few days but make sure to flush it before planting.

For moderate infestations you have to do this every 3 days for 2 weeks along with a spray routine every 3 to 4 days as well.

The downside to Athena IPM is the price. @ $135 a gallon it's hard to swallow. Plus you have to use 120 ml each gallon for spraying but thankfully only 40 ml per gallon for soil drench. Athena sucks for spraying anyway so I use Capt. Jacks Dead Bug Brew for the spraying @ $32 a quart but you use twice as less and it's 10 times as good.

That's great to know for future, if you spray the surface of the pots with 20% ipa gnat larvea dart to the surface right away trying to escape, unfortunately the coco kept absorbing it away from them so I got scissors and cut them in two when they surfaced, under the microscope not getting wicked away ipa kills larvea in around 10 seconds.

That's a huge step forward being able to use ipa even temporary, it's deadly to gnat larvae and adults idk about eggs tbh I couldn't find any lol.

 

[Drop That Sound]