Is the praying leaves a bad thing or good thing?

[AlmightyJumpman]

Me personally I think she looks absolutely gorgeous, my first time growing anything and the green foliage is so stunning to me. But aside from how appealing she looks, is the praying leaves a good or bad thing? My light is the aero light se100w and I’m in a 2x2x4 tent and my lights are on 70% right now. I don’t know if that’s too much light because they are kind of curling a tad bit but if I’m going off of my leaves, I haven’t had light burn ever. I don’t if I need to turn it up or lower it more. I was at 75 yesterday, did some research about the curling leaves and what to look for. For vivosuns vegetative program on the grow hub, the lights are supposed to be on 80% right now. And flower is 100%. The light is 18 inches from the canopy

 

[Jjgrow420]

Episode 127: Flushing and Photoperiod Research with Michael Alden

My guest this week is Michael Alden. Michael is the Research Director at Stairway Holding, Inc. and explores methods to improve efficiency and productivity in cannabis cultivation. He spent the past 5 years as a graduate research assistant with Dr. Jim Faust studying the flowering physiology of...

www.kisorganics.com

 

[Jjgrow420]

Listen to it. Your answers are in there if ya don't believe me

 

[AlmightyJumpman]

No I believe everything you say, I’m just not sure what to put my light on. I had to go on YouTube to listen to the podcast you sent me, the second video I saw was about praying leaves and it seems to be a sign of stress because it may be transpiring more by reducing surface area. I dropped my light to 70 from 75, maybe 60? I think you said try 25% will that negatively affect them? What percentage should I put it on or keep dropping it to reach that sweet spot? What about flower? I’m brand new to this and I’ve been under the impression that you turn your light as bright as it can go in flower. But that’s good for me though, that means when it’s time for flower for me, I have plenty of room. Not a lot of vertical height. I’m not sure at what power the ppfd is on that picture but what’s my range I need to stay in?

 

[Woedae]

No I believe everything you say, I’m just not sure what to put my light on. I had to go on YouTube to listen to the podcast you sent me, the second video I saw was about praying leaves and it seems to be a sign of stress because it may be transpiring more by reducing surface area. I dropped my light to 70 from 75, maybe 60? I think you said try 25% will that negatively affect them? What percentage should I put it on or keep dropping it to reach that sweet spot? What about flower? I’m brand new to this and I’ve been under the impression that you turn your light as bright as it can go in flower. But that’s good for me though, that means when it’s time for flower for me, I have plenty of room. Not a lot of vertical height. I’m not sure at what power the ppfd is on that picture but what’s my range I need to stay in?

I think what @Jjgrow420 is trying to say is that if your plants are praying hardcore, there's going to be a response from corrective measures taken by you. If lowering the PPFD doesn't correct anything, them there's got to be something else going on. Only you know best, we're not there.

My advise.... lower the ppfd. If they're still standing straight up, try and raise your RH. There's a reason that the fan leaves are maximizing their surface area to wind movement. This should not be confused with healthy turgor. Think of the fan leaf as a solar panel. A petole that angles upwards at a 45 degree angle is high turgor and that's a good sign. The leaf itself should then lay more horizontal as to catch as much light as possible. If this isn't the case then there is something else going on and high PPFD is just one of the likely multiple things causing this.

Try and use a simple common sense approach when troubleshooting. But cannabis is a light loving plant, and the research that has been done, particularly from Professor Bruce Bugbee shows cannabis can take a shit load of light. If I'm remembering correctly, Bugbee said they had reached a DLI of 100 and this number is still going up.

Start thinking about RH, Temps, nutrient imbalance, C02 levels and EC. Plants do talk, you just gotta learn their language, and this does vary slightly with genetics. Best of luck to you.

 

[chuckeye]

Me personally I think she looks absolutely gorgeous, my first time growing anything and the green foliage is so stunning to me. But aside from how appealing she looks, is the praying leaves a good or bad thing? My light is the aero light se100w and I’m in a 2x2x4 tent and my lights are on 70% right now. I don’t know if that’s too much light because they are kind of curling a tad bit but if I’m going off of my leaves, I haven’t had light burn ever. I don’t if I need to turn it up or lower it more. I was at 75 yesterday, did some research about the curling leaves and what to look for. For vivosuns vegetative program on the grow hub, the lights are supposed to be on 80% right now. And flower is 100%. The light is 18 inches from the canopy

Your plant looks perfectly healthy and does not appear to be praying excessively !

Even with the leaves up to 45 degrees from vertical it is still just fine....

As to the power, I use a simple lux meter app on my phone.

Use a conversion factor of .0125 to get the par value of a full spectrum LED.

Between the stage of growth and the appearance of the plant adjust accordingly.

IIRC at your stage of growth I would be at 30,000 lux.

Cheers

 

[Nutty sKunK]

My plants outside pray a lot more than my indoor plants!!

Which has led to me to believe they are just super fucking happy and are praying the lawd Jesus

 

[MickFoster]

The plant looks fine........relax.

 

[Wastei]

I think what @Jjgrow420 is trying to say is that if your plants are praying hardcore, there's going to be a response from corrective measures taken by you. If lowering the PPFD doesn't correct anything, them there's got to be something else going on. Only you know best, we're not there.

My advise.... lower the ppfd. If they're still standing straight up, try and raise your RH. There's a reason that the fan leaves are maximizing their surface area to wind movement. This should not be confused with healthy turgor. Think of the fan leaf as a solar panel. A petole that angles upwards at a 45 degree angle is high turgor and that's a good sign. The leaf itself should then lay more horizontal as to catch as much light as possible. If this isn't the case then there is something else going on and high PPFD is just one of the likely multiple things causing this.

Try and use a simple common sense approach when troubleshooting. But cannabis is a light loving plant, and the research that has been done, particularly from Professor Bruce Bugbee shows cannabis can take a shit load of light. If I'm remembering correctly, Bugbee said they had reached a DLI of 100 and this number is still going up.

Start thinking about RH, Temps, nutrient imbalance, C02 levels and EC. Plants do talk, you just gotta learn their language, and this does vary slightly with genetics. Best of luck to you.

High DLI is not nothing to aim at really, only at peak flower but IMO a larger footprint will bring better quality than pushing 100 DLI on the plants. It's better to follow plants response than to focus on other peoples numbers. Why exactly 100 DLI? Why not 97 or 93?

There's a positive to negative return and running high DLI is a selling point and argument working for a company selling LED light fixtures and equipment. Most people in this industry work towards efficiency to be able to compete and you can't do that well pushing 100 DLI on a small footprint. Those numbers are for marketing and arguably research IMO with rare and very specific cultivars.

 

[Woedae]

High DLI is not nothing to aim at really, only at peak flower but IMO a larger footprint will bring better quality than pushing 100 DLI on the plants. It's better to follow plants response than to focus on other peoples numbers. Why exactly 100 DLI? Why not 97 or 93?

There's a positive to negative return and running high DLI is a selling point and argument working for a company selling LED light fixtures and equipment. Most people in this industry work towards efficiency to be able to compete and you can't do that well pushing 100 DLI on a small footprint. Those numbers are for marketing and arguably research IMO with rare and very specific cultivars.

It was just some shit that Bugbee was saying in a podcast regarding light. I made the reference mainly to reaffirm that cannabis is a light lover.

 

[Jjgrow420]

No I believe everything you say, I’m just not sure what to put my light on. I had to go on YouTube to listen to the podcast you sent me, the second video I saw was about praying leaves and it seems to be a sign of stress because it may be transpiring more by reducing surface area. I dropped my light to 70 from 75, maybe 60? I think you said try 25% will that negatively affect them? What percentage should I put it on or keep dropping it to reach that sweet spot? What about flower? I’m brand new to this and I’ve been under the impression that you turn your light as bright as it can go in flower. But that’s good for me though, that means when it’s time for flower for me, I have plenty of room. Not a lot of vertical height. I’m not sure at what power the ppfd is on that picture but what’s my range I need to stay in?

I didn't see the pic of the plant before, but like Mick said it looks fine now.. in your previous post I think you said you were having issues with drooping and watering problems.
That plant is very small, and doesn't require an intense amount of light, even at the start or flower I bump up the wattage incrementally by 5-10% every few days and watch the plants. If they seem perky and happy at lights on, then droop by lights off, it's a light problem. You're giving them too much. So dial it down 5% until the plant stays 'happy' the whole time. Then once you notice the plant is growing quickly and it looks healthy and happy then start bumping up your light until you notice that happen again and dial it back again until it doesn't drop, and voila. You're in the chips. The plant looks good now. Before if my memory serves me right (I don't count on that) I was pretty sure I looked at some pics of a droopy sad looking plant in a diff post and you thought you were having watering issues but after some digging we kinda figured out the issue might be your dli (or in other terms your light intensity) so my advice was to dim down low to 25% for a day or so to let the plant stop stressing out, and then start adjusting your light % higher slowly and watch what happens. Dimming down the light for a day isn't going to negatively affect your plant, in fact it will prob start growing roots faster, as its not stressing to preserve itself from light intensity. It's not really as complicated as it seems. You're going to get diff answers from diff people because everyone's just trying to help and offer advice from their own exp. I'm just telling you I'm pretty sure the light at 70% on a small plant is way too high, and this is what is compounding your issues here. It's not gospel. It's just what I believe is the issue and I've been around the block a few times so I believe I have some validity in my response. Maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm right but I'm willing to bet on the latter.

 

[Jjgrow420]

My plants outside pray a lot more than my indoor plants!!

Which has led to me to believe they are just super fucking happy and are praying the lawd Jesus

Listen to that podcast, it may open your eyes to some new ideas about why leaves pray. It's worth a listen. I'm not saying I'm right I'm just saying it's a good thing to expand our databases and keep up with new studies to learn more about the plants we love to grow. You can make up your mind yourself I'm not trying to steer you one way or another just offer some information from scientific studies that are backed by legitimate people not just me, a joe grow shmo on an internet forum. Jesus has nothing to do with it! He's just a shmo like me.

 

[Jjgrow420]

I'm an atheist so my plants pray to a god that doesn't exist

 

[Hollatchaboy]

So when you guys are referring to leaf praying, do you mean like this?

 

[Jimski]

Lux for veg tops at 50 k and he has a ways to go for max.
Plants look great. Hear is white widow at 35k almost 6 weeks above ground

OP you got this

 

[Nutty sKunK]

Listen to that podcast, it may open your eyes to some new ideas about why leaves pray. It's worth a listen. I'm not saying I'm right I'm just saying it's a good thing to expand our databases and keep up with new studies to learn more about the plants we love to grow. You can make up your mind yourself I'm not trying to steer you one way or another just offer some information from scientific studies that are backed by legitimate people not just me, a joe grow shmo on an internet forum. Jesus has nothing to do with it! He's just a shmo like me.

Quite a long one and don’t have the best attention span. Might pop it on when I do some housework. What time does he mention praying leaves?

I’ve just noticed that outdoors my plants tend to pray more than indoors. The sun is the best source of light and where I’m from we don’t get much of it lol

 

[Jjgrow420]

Quite a long one and don’t have the best attention span. Might pop it on when I do some housework. What time does he mention praying leaves?

I’ve just noticed that outdoors my plants tend to pray more than indoors. The sun is the best source of light and where I’m from we don’t get much of it lol

I'm not exactly sure what time I listen at work all day between comedy podcasts and music. It helps me focus on something I find actually interesting rather than stupid work

 

[AlmightyJumpman]

So when you guys are referring to leaf praying, do you mean like this?

View attachment 5451149

Yes this is exactly what we are talking about.
I turned my light down to 65% annd bump my rh up by 5 so im at 75 RH. I’ll anwe how that goes, then I’ll turn it down. Just trying to expose the issue and it’s still doing it. My leaves are praying at big time at 75%. Maybe I should go a little lower on the power, it so many different opinions. I love it though. Everyone’s a genius in my eyes

 

[conor c]

My plants outside pray a lot more than my indoor plants!!

Which has led to me to believe they are just super fucking happy and are praying the lawd Jesus

I find they pray in both about the same however I do find most plants seem way more happy outside in general though even in our lack of sun Vs indoors as you said mate there's no substitute for the sun and having them in the ground as well

 

[AlmightyJumpman]

Yes this is exactly what we are talking about. View attachment 5451164View attachment 5451165
I turned my light down to 65% annd bump my rh up by 5 so im at 75 RH. I’ll anwe how that goes, then I’ll turn it down. Just trying to expose the issue and it’s still doing it. My leaves are praying at big time at 75%. Maybe I should go a little lower on the power, it so many different opinions. I love it though. Everyone’s a genius in my eyes

I didn't see the pic of the plant before, but like Mick said it looks fine now.. in your previous post I think you said you were having issues with drooping and watering problems.
That plant is very small, and doesn't require an intense amount of light, even at the start or flower I bump up the wattage incrementally by 5-10% every few days and watch the plants. If they seem perky and happy at lights on, then droop by lights off, it's a light problem. You're giving them too much. So dial it down 5% until the plant stays 'happy' the whole time. Then once you notice the plant is growing quickly and it looks healthy and happy then start bumping up your light until you notice that happen again and dial it back again until it doesn't drop, and voila. You're in the chips. The plant looks good now. Before if my memory serves me right (I don't count on that) I was pretty sure I looked at some pics of a droopy sad looking plant in a diff post and you thought you were having watering issues but after some digging we kinda figured out the issue might be your dli (or in other terms your light intensity) so my advice was to dim down low to 25% for a day or so to let the plant stop stressing out, and then start adjusting your light % higher slowly and watch what happens. Dimming down the light for a day isn't going to negatively affect your plant, in fact it will prob start growing roots faster, as its not stressing to preserve itself from light intensity. It's not really as complicated as it seems. You're going to get diff answers from diff people because everyone's just trying to help and offer advice from their own exp. I'm just telling you I'm pretty sure the light at 70% on a small plant is way too high, and this is what is compounding your issues here. It's not gospel. It's just what I believe is the issue and I've been around the block a few times so I believe I have some validity in my response. Maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm right but I'm willing to bet on the latter.

my last post was about slow growth. She was stunted bad in my opinion but the plant doesn’t reflect that so much. Also haven’t watered in 4 days and they still aren’t drooping in need of water. I’m impressed honestly. You’re right, I may have the wrong idea of it all. I’m trying to be 100 by the start of flower when I don’t have to be. Once buds start forming, I’m sure you want your light to go as bright as the plant can take. But while in vegetative, high intensity light isn’t as demanding as flowering stage. I posted a pic of her on here like a hour ago, the set of leaves under the ones are praying, is that how they are supposed to be? That flat look or is it still supposed to droop on the edges slightly? I just got to work so im about to have the podcast on roll while I detail some cars