Plant Cloning Issues, What's Going On?

[GenericEnigma]

I'm coming close to the 14 days now for the second lot of clones, and really, am getting no where.

I've got the Turbo Kloner in a tent, in the corner, out of direct light, temperature controlled the room to about 23 degrees C.

Last night I sprayed out the Turbo Kloner water tank with some bleach, it fizzed up a little, perhaps some organic matter in the tank? Dunno. But I filled it back up with some distilled water (5L + about 1L of tap water as that's all I had), and popped about 3ppm of Calcium Hypochlorite.

Really not sure what's going wrong, because I've always had great success with cuttings, and to be frank, this really has me stumped.

The only thing I can think of, realistically, is if the plants have some sort of issue preventing the cuttings from rooting...?

As mentioned earlier, this particular strain has been cloned before (this is the second generation of clones), and I had absolutely no dramas getting them to root. Only now I'm struggling. All conditions are the same, nothing different, except the first batch of clones where the humidity was far too high in the dome box..

But I've been running no dome with the Turbo Kloner, and still not seeing much action happening root-wise. I worry, because the stems look like they're shrinking and dying off, they don't look like they're alive, they literally look like they're slowly dying off. The stems in the aerocloner are 1/2 the size of the stem above the collar, they don't look good. Is this normal?

Looking at the stem in your pic, it seems healthy, no issues. Whereas mine... Look like they're going to eventually rot...

What about your water source? And if tap water, is the municipality doing anything different?

In my conditions, 23dC would cause a cottony white mold to grow on my stems.

 

[SBNDB]

I use an aero cloner and use spring water in it.Add a TINY bit of food like the clonex stuff or a low strength mix of maxibloom, My cloner holds about 2.5 gallons and maybe a quart(liter) of that is the LOW strength food. water temp is around 68-73 f and never have any problems . 10 days average on roots. Maybe about 40 watts of light . Change the water and clean everything about once a month. Some varieties take a little longer.

 

[RockStonedJesus]

What about your water source? And if tap water, is the municipality doing anything different?

In my conditions, 23dC would cause a cottony white mold to grow on my stems.

No idea regarding water, who knows, they've probably dumped more Chloramine in the water..

I've replaced the Turbo Kloner with distilled water, so hopefully that somewhat helps.

What are your ideal temps, and are you running an aerocloner?

 

[GenericEnigma]

No idea regarding water, who knows, they've probably dumped more Chloramine in the water..

I've replaced the Turbo Kloner with distilled water, so hopefully that somewhat helps.

What are your ideal temps, and are you running an aerocloner?

Hopefully distilled helps. It will at least control a possible variable.

I don't know the exact water temp. I typically keep my shop at about 20dC. I stick the aerocloner in a corner on the slab. The pump in the water creates some heat, I'm sure. But the water "feels cold." I'd be shocked if it warms over 20dC.

Sorry I can't be more specific. If I were rooting clones now I'd measure. I'm glad to have finally found a system that works for my conditions. Hopefully this all helps you!

 

[RockStonedJesus]

I'm really starting to worry now, no idea what's going on here...

The only thing I can see is the bract's of the plant, no actual roots.

Should the cuttings have calloused over by now?
Do they look fine, or do they look like they're going to rot/die?

 

[RockStonedJesus]

Currently I've got the Turbo Kloner set to 2 minutes on, 15 minutes off.

If someone has further advice as to the ideal times to keep the pump running, please let me know.

 

[RockStonedJesus]

Still no signs of life, definitely starting to get a bit concerned.. Cuttings are now slowly yellowing off, so I've made a light foliar spray with CaMg and my A+B at a low dose, just to give the girls some food.

I did drain the Turbo Kloner resi and gave it a good spray and sanitisation of Sodium Hypochlorite, I did notice it fuzzed up a little bit (white), as I sprayed it.. I assume that's some kind of organic growth in the tank? Dunno..

But absolutely no signs of roots, and it looks like some of the stems are darkening (towards a black/brown colour).

 

[RockStonedJesus]

After lots of reading, I've read a few posts and articles that suggest that too much Nitrogen in the mother plant, can inhibit root development in cuttings - I think perhaps since I've been feeding a full-veg feed, it has left too much N in the plant.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Also, should I add anything to the water like Vitamin B1, or should I be foliar spraying with Kelp or anything like that? Or just leave them?

I don't want these cuttings to be a total loss, though it is looking like they will be a total loss, unfortunately.

 

[cage]

After lots of reading, I've read a few posts and articles that suggest that too much Nitrogen in the mother plant, can inhibit root development in cuttings - I think perhaps since I've been feeding a full-veg feed, it has left too much N in the plant.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Also, should I add anything to the water like Vitamin B1, or should I be foliar spraying with Kelp or anything like that? Or just leave them?

I don't want these cuttings to be a total loss, though it is looking like they will be a total loss, unfortunately.

Ye, the mother plants condition has significant effect how the clones root.
Nitrogen is one the things that might inhibit root growth.
Also some the cuttings seemed a bit woody to me. Usually you get better rooting with new shoots that are more green than woody.

Spraying with anything shouldn't be necessary.
I recently did small trial with some willow water cloning, first run I let them soak in the willow water for 3days.
Roots began forming bit before 2weeks, but the stem ends we're shrinking and we're a bit dark.
So after few days of following it I decided to just cut to the healthy looking part.
They didn't really mind it and continued to root.
Next run I did just 1day of willow water soak and didn't have that issue.

This pheno I'm running now has been one the slowest rooting I've encountered personally.
My willow water trials are still going, but definatly more root shoots.
With plain water/mild nutrient solution, the stem formed the callus and pretty much all the roots came from it.
So definatly more branching and roots started growing all the way of the stem with willow water.

Has your knife/scissors you make your cuttings with been sterilized?

 

[Star Dog]

I'm really starting to worry now, no idea what's going on here...

The only thing I can see is the bract's of the plant, no actual roots.

Should the cuttings have calloused over by now?
Do they look fine, or do they look like they're going to rot/die?

Let us see the top of them?
Generally green/alive indicates they're going to root its a matter of time, ime if they're green and the temps are near enough they'll root 99.99 times with patience but some can take weeks.

 

[RockStonedJesus]

Ye, the mother plants condition has significant effect how the clones root.
Nitrogen is one the things that might inhibit root growth.
Also some the cuttings seemed a bit woody to me. Usually you get better rooting with new shoots that are more green than woody.

Spraying with anything shouldn't be necessary.
I recently did small trial with some willow water cloning, first run I let them soak in the willow water for 3days.
Roots began forming bit before 2weeks, but the stem ends we're shrinking and we're a bit dark.
So after few days of following it I decided to just cut to the healthy looking part.
They didn't really mind it and continued to root.
Next run I did just 1day of willow water soak and didn't have that issue.

This pheno I'm running now has been one the slowest rooting I've encountered personally.
My willow water trials are still going, but definatly more root shoots.
With plain water/mild nutrient solution, the stem formed the callus and pretty much all the roots came from it.
So definatly more branching and roots started growing all the way of the stem with willow water.

Has your knife/scissors you make your cuttings with been sterilized?

I definitely think the mother plants have too much nitrogen - I'm only just now coming to the realization that not only have I been feeding a high EC nutrient feed (2.4), which contains a decent amount of N by %, I also put slow-release fertilizer in the coco (as I was going to do interchanged waterings, sometimes with plain water, others with nutrients), but my ADHD got the best of me, and I totally forgot.

This perhaps explains why every other time I've had a near 100% success rate with my cuttings, because I wasn't going stupid on the Nitrogen...

The cuttings look like they've gone more "woody", though I did take cuttings of newer growth, and some older growth. All still haven't rooted.

The Turbo Kloner I have on hand (the other is with my friend), has majority flowering cuttings in it, because we went into crisis management.

Still no roots, though I'm doubtful I'll see roots now and might have to write these off as a total loss.

I've currently got a plant re-vegging (after 2-3 weeks of flowering), any idea how long it'll take before I *COULD* start to see new growth? Hopefully not too much longer than 4-ish weeks..? Ahhhh!

I'm going to flush the mother plant that's 2-3 weeks in flower (currently week 1 and a half in the re-veg phase with 24 hours of light - any suggestions on ideal time for re-veg, 18H or 24H?), hopefully to bring the coco EC down a bit, to help create a Nitrogen deficit.

 

[Star Dog]

I'd have no concerns about those rooting...assuming the environment is near enough and suitable lighting, they're barely two weeks and its winter?

You might see a kinda rough warty like texture that's the callous forming out which it puts roots.

Give them peace to root, everytime you open the tent/prop the environment changes in there remember a stable environment is a benefit.

To re veg I use 24hrs light for the stable environment but if the temps are acceptable with it off I doubt there's much difference between 18/24hrs just whatever suits you.

 

[RockStonedJesus]

I'd have no concerns about those rooting...assuming the environment is near enough and suitable lighting, they're barely two weeks and its winter?

You might see a kinda rough warty like texture that's the callous forming out which it puts roots.

Give them peace to root, everytime you open the tent/prop the environment changes in there remember a stable environment is a benefit.

To re veg I use 24hrs light for the stable environment but if the temps are acceptable with it off I doubt there's much difference between 18/24hrs just whatever suits you.

Thanks heaps for your response Star Dog!

It's actually Summer here, buuuuut, I do have the room setup with a air conditioner set to 24 degrees C (75.2F).

I also have the Turbo Kloner pump set to 1 minute on, 15 minutes off. What do you think about this?

I'll leave the clones and won't touch them, at all. However, should I continue to add a low-dose of Calcium Hypochlorite (Bleach), every few days?

But for sure, I'll just leave them. I've only really been checking them every two days, though I know I should just set and forget.

Water temps sit around 23-24c, same temperature as the AC unit keeping the room cool.

We've been getting some hot days around here, 35c+, so I've had to keep this AC unit on to keep the room cool.

 

[Star Dog]

It's actually Summer here, buuuuut, I do have the room setup with a air conditioner set to 24 degrees C (75.2F).

I also have the Turbo Kloner pump set to 1 minute on, 15 minutes off. What do you think about this?

Ah ok bud, so it's not cold I kinda thought that might the problem.

Tbf everything looks close enough that they should root for you?

1 min on 15 off I'm not certain about but I think it'd be ok I've rooted clones in a jug of water without any agitation and I've used a recirculating pump just to move the water and that worked similar to 2x 12" air stones and 4x outlet pump 2 per stone.

Your water temperature is it little warm not for clones but for encouraging nasties as mentioned earlier a bit bleach, peroxide etc keeps it sterile.

By chance?
Are you seeing any clear jelly or mucous like stuff on the stems?

 

[RockStonedJesus]

Ah ok bud, so it's not cold I kinda thought that might the problem.

Tbf everything looks close enough that they should root for you?

1 min on 15 off I'm not certain about but I think it'd be ok I've rooted clones in a jug of water without any agitation and I've used a recirculating pump just to move the water and that worked similar to 2x 12" air stones and 4x outlet pump 2 per stone.

Your water temperature is it little warm not for clones but for encouraging nasties as mentioned earlier a bit bleach, peroxide etc keeps it sterile.

By chance?
Are you seeing any clear jelly or mucous like stuff on the stems?

No jelly/slime, I've been trying my best to keep it relatively sterile.

I did notice when I sprayed Calcium Hypochlorite in the Kloner tank, it fizzed up white, so indicates some kind of organic matter.
Though for the most part, it has been kept quite sterile, no slimey looking junk on the stems... Hopefully it stays that way.

 

[GenericEnigma]

Currently I've got the Turbo Kloner set to 2 minutes on, 15 minutes off.

If someone has further advice as to the ideal times to keep the pump running, please let me know.

I run my pump nonstop. Don't know if your stems will dry in there, but you don't want that. A couple stems in your pics look like the bottom cm is withered/shrunk.

 

[Drop That Sound]

1 ON 4 OFF is pretty much the most universally known pump timing cycle that should work good with all the low pressure EZ aerocloners. Good air/water ratio for the cuttings, and also helps cut down on temps. If its still a problem with warming up (even with 15m off), you should just switch over to using a few air stones to mist the roots with DWC bubbles instead. Pull the current pump and mister manifold out, and only use that during the winter instead. Bonus: You can hook an intake tube to the air pump, and position the end of it near the AC units coil to pull in colder air throughout the day and act like a chiller for the water, as well as quieting down the pump a few dBs.

Lots of chloramines in the tap water is a good thing for hydro cloning IMO. Have you looked at your municipal water reports to find out whats up? If so, all you should have to do is change out the tap water in the res every few days, and that's it. Wait for roots. No need for adding more oxidizers or sanitizing chemicals, just keep doing partial changouts. Oh, and yeah like it was said ^, make sure you sanitize your cutting tools every time. Better yet, torch a blade with flame till its red hot (then cool it down), so you know its been completely sterilized every time you take a cut.

I would re soak the whole turbo clone system with a strong bleach solution instead of peroxide just to be safe. That includes the foam collars. Trap them under the solution in a basket to soak awhile, and also use a small paint brush with bristles to deep clean inside the small gaps in the foam. You never know if the original owner had a bad case of whatever, even if it looked clean.

 

[Soil Growth]

Excess Nitrogen can delay flowering.

Too little phosphorus can leave your cuttings without the Energy to grow roots. I've seen a science guy (who sells nutrients) recommend a dose of flowering feed a week before taking clones.

In my experience, low phosphorus shows up as purple stems that get darker (almost black), woodier and thinner over time. Brow, crispy leaves. And yellow, shitty stunted growth at the tops.

If your clones, or the plant you cut them from is/are having problems like that it could be a phosphorus issue.

 

[ScroteCombover]

Drop some in peat pellets in a humidity dome just in case. I got like 1/50 to root in my diy cloner, said f it, switched to peat pellets in domes and rate jumped back up above 80%. But I think the main reason for the improvement was bc I changed everything else environmentally. I now have a dedicated clone tent w heat mat, and low light, and keep everything at 100%rh til roots form. When I see roots sticking out of plugs, I transplant into 1gals. If I don't see roots, I leave them alone til day 17, just to avoid disturbing them or pissing myself off unnecessarily. I still don't know why aero wasn't working for me, but I no longer care.

 

[BongerChonger]

You've put the cuttings in upside down! Look closely.

And, I wouldn't approach it like a hardwood cutting, you're doing soft tip cuttings, so leave some leaf/leaves on, keep the tips on.

I may be the only one here, but my cuttings usually start looking like crap right before they get roots, don't give up on them.
Can take a few weeks.

 

[OneHitDone]

No jelly/slime, I've been trying my best to keep it relatively sterile.

I did notice when I sprayed Calcium Hypochlorite in the Kloner tank, it fizzed up white, so indicates some kind of organic matter.
Though for the most part, it has been kept quite sterile, no slimey looking junk on the stems... Hopefully it stays that way.

Couple of pointers from experience in my garden -
This is assuming you haven't soaked the cuts in water overnight to keep them plump.
For tray with plug - stick cuts as you described - place closed dome on tray for 3 days. After Day 3 start removing dome for 10 minutes or so and each day start progressively opening vents on dome. Observe cuts - if the show water stress close the vents as needed

Turbo Kloner - I like to put straight tap water in the cloner for the first 3 or so days. I also like to lightly dip them in Clonex etc gel. Let them sit in the cloner for 15 minutes or so with gel on them before starting the pump.
I run my pump 24/7 with the cloner sitting on the concrete floor. Probably could run constant for first 3 days or so to make sure they don't wilt and then switch to a 2 on 15 off etc.
After day 2 I like to replace the water with a dilute nutrient solution. 1.0ec works well and seems to help prevent the yellowing issues.
A lot of folks run bleach, hypochlorous etc. but I haven't been seeing a need for it lately as long as the water is kept fresh