obama's job plan..to cost 250K per job

[bigjesse1922]

To the Libbies thinking that Obama's make-work programs are good ideas, please explain why there were more unemployed at the start of FDR's third term in office than there were at the start of his first term. Thanks ...

Vi

Oh my oh my. Well let's see, the unemployment "rate" has and always will be an estimate. It is systematically flawed and IS NOT the only measure of our economy. The fact that capital started to flow again was a FAR greater matter of importance. Why was the economic boom of the 50's and the microwave/t.v. era such a success if FDR's policies didn't work?

 

[ViRedd]

Oh my oh my. Well let's see, the unemployment "rate" has and always will be an estimate. It is systematically flawed and IS NOT the only measure of our economy. The fact that capital started to flow again was a FAR greater matter of importance. Why was the economic boom of the 50's and the microwave/t.v. era such a success if FDR's policies didn't work?

Make-work programs don't work because capital is taken OUT of the private sector and placed into the hands of government. Take a dollar out of private industry and place it into the hands of a government bureaucrat and you not only do not have a wash, you lose because the bureaucrat takes a government brokerage fee to boot.

Unemployment numbers track the numbers of people who were once working and who are not working now. FDR's make-work programs did nothing to improve the unemployment rate over his three terms in office. In fact ... FACT ... the unemployment rate increased. Do the research.

WWII put people to work making things that were almost instantly destroyed, like bombs, rockets, ammunition, planes, ships, etc. It, in essence, created a demand for products used in WWII and had the factories humming and the vast majority of Americans working for the war effort.

It was WWII that began the economic recovery, not make-work programs. That recovery extended through the 1950s.

I lived it, did you?

Vi

 

[bigjesse1922]

Make-work programs don't work because capital is taken OUT of the private sector and placed into the hands of government. Take a dollar out of private industry and place it into the hands of a government bureaucrat and you not only do not have a wash, you lose because the bureaucrat takes a government brokerage fee to boot.

Unemployment numbers track the numbers of people who were once working and who are not working now. FDR's make-work programs did nothing to improve the unemployment rate over his three terms in office. In fact ... FACT ... the unemployment rate increased. Do the research.

WWII put people to work making things that were almost instantly destroyed, like bombs, rockets, ammunition, planes, ships, etc. It, in essence, created a demand for products used in WWII and had the factories humming and the vast majority of Americans working for the war effort.

It was WWII that began the economic recovery, not make-work programs. That recovery extended through the 1950s.

I lived it, did you?

Vi

I do not think that the so called "make work" programs are the best approach myself. My point originally was to highlight that something big must be done and simply handing out lump sums of money was not a feasible solution. Read the context of the post.

I agree with you that WWII was the biggest factor in getting the US out of the Great Depression. It's a fact.

But what now? Are you advocating for a WWIII as economic stimulus!? I was trying to clairify the gravity of the situtation with historical context, not to promote a return to pre WWII fiscal thinking.

Your right, to work programs won't fix our economy. So what? My point was that at least taxpayers get a tangible return on their money, as OPPOSED to bailing out the financial sector for their greed and incompetence.

Sure, we can't put blind faith in the almighty government to manage our money. But we can't trust the private sector either! Talk about dollars disappearing! I would rather someone took a portion of my money to put someone to work as opposed to them taking it and sticking it in their already hefty wallet! We need new thinking and a return to government by the people and FOR the people, NOT JUST THE WEALTHY PEOPLE AS IT HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!

You Repubs had the past 8 years to test your mettle, and you failed on every front!! Don't confuse my opinions as advocating anything until you read the context of the post!

 

[medicineman]

Make-work programs don't work because capital is taken OUT of the private sector and placed into the hands of government. Take a dollar out of private industry and place it into the hands of a government bureaucrat and you not only do not have a wash, you lose because the bureaucrat takes a government brokerage fee to boot.

Unemployment numbers track the numbers of people who were once working and who are not working now. FDR's make-work programs did nothing to improve the unemployment rate over his three terms in office. In fact ... FACT ... the unemployment rate increased. Do the research.

WWII put people to work making things that were almost instantly destroyed, like bombs, rockets, ammunition, planes, ships, etc. It, in essence, created a demand for products used in WWII and had the factories humming and the vast majority of Americans working for the war effort.

It was WWII that began the economic recovery, not make-work programs. That recovery extended through the 1950s.

I lived it, did you?

Vi

What do you call taking money from government and subsidizing Private industry and financial corps?
Unemployment figures are skewed because as soon as people run out of unemployment benefits, they are dropped from the list whether they found a job or not. There are a few million unemployed not counted.
FDR had a 100 day plan that began to put people back to work and get ahold of a runaway economy. First order of business, legalize Booze. Put hundreds of thousands to work right there.
And as far as living it, what were you, 2 fucking years old, yeah, I'll bet you were really concerned with the economy, what a joke.

 

[ViRedd]

I do not think that the so called "make work" programs are the best approach myself. 1. My point originally was to highlight that something big must be done and simply handing out lump sums of money was not a feasible solution. Read the context of the post.

I agree with you that WWII was the biggest factor in getting the US out of the Great Depression. It's a fact.

2. But what now? Are you advocating for a WWIII as economic stimulus!? I was trying to clairify the gravity of the situtation with historical context, not to promote a return to pre WWII fiscal thinking.

Your right, to work programs won't fix our economy. So what? My point was that at least taxpayers get a tangible return on their money, as OPPOSED to bailing out the financial sector for their greed and incompetence.

Sure, we can't put blind faith in the almighty government to manage our money. But we can't trust the private sector either! Talk about dollars disappearing! I would rather someone took a portion of my money to put someone to work as opposed to them taking it and sticking it in their already hefty wallet! 3. We need new thinking and a return to government by the people and FOR the people, NOT JUST THE WEALTHY PEOPLE AS IT HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!

4. You Repubs had the past 8 years to test your mettle, and you failed on every front!! Don't confuse my opinions as advocating anything until you read the context of the post!

1. I agree that something big needs to be done, but it isn't government that has to do it. The "something big" would be to dramatically cut the size and scope of government. How about for starters, cut the corporate income tax rate to 15%, cut the top personal income tax rate to 10% or go to a FAIR Tax? In addition, eliminate the "Death Tax."

2. No, I'm not suggesting that we start WWIII. I'm suggesting that we reintroduce free market principles into our economy and get government ... and free loading, so called capitalists, out of the way.

3. Are my first two points advocating a government of the people, or not?

4. Why are you assuming that I'm a Republican? Are you making the common mistake that's made in this forum that anyone who speaks out against socialism is a Republican?

Vi

 

[ViRedd]

What do you call taking money from government and subsidizing Private industry and financial corps?
Unemployment figures are skewed because as soon as people run out of unemployment benefits, they are dropped from the list whether they found a job or not. There are a few million unemployed not counted.
FDR had a 100 day plan that began to put people back to work and get ahold of a runaway economy. First order of business, legalize Booze. Put hundreds of thousands to work right there.
And as far as living it, what were you, 2 fucking years old, yeah, I'll bet you were really concerned with the economy, what a joke.

Your ignorance and stupidity is the result of your lack of reading comprehension.

Vi

 

[bigjesse1922]

1. I agree that something big needs to be done, but it isn't government that has to do it. The "something big" would be to dramatically cut the size and scope of government. How about for starters, cut the corporate income tax rate to 15%, cut the top personal income tax rate to 10% or go to a FAIR Tax? In addition, eliminate the "Death Tax."

2. No, I'm not suggesting that we start WWIII. I'm suggesting that we reintroduce free market principles into our economy and get government ... and free loading, so called capitalists, out of the way.

3. Are my first two points advocating a government of the people, or not?

4. Why are you assuming that I'm a Republican? Are you making the common mistake that's made in this forum that anyone who speaks out against socialism is a Republican?

Vi

lol oh i see. We need to trust corporations with our economy? Lower taxes is the answer? You may not be a repub but you sound like mcbush to me!

letting corporate america keep more money accomplishes what? corporate america is concerned about their bottom line, NOT the american worker. it is nothing but SHEER GREED that pushes companies to export jobs to developing nations. they can and always have made plenty of money right here in the US! but now they want more! the same people who want to screw you outta your pension plan and make multi-billion dollar profits annually, at the expense of the american middle class, that is the problem!

people like you think, let the rich get richer and it will trickle down. doesnt work! they will use their increased profits to outsource more jobs and set up more oversees companies so they can reduce their overhead and make buckoo bucks! Corporate greed and corruption are you blame!

You ask me if i lived through the depression era...obviously not. you claim to have yourslef. why then dont you notice the difference in how corporations regard their workers, their communities? people like rockefeller and carnegie got really really rich...and guess what, they used their fortunes to reinvest in the community. they knew they were the product of a system that had to be protected! while i wont defend all of their business practices, they loved this nation and wanted to see it stronger! get it? lower taxes all you want, see where the jobs go.

 

[purplekitty7772008]

The voice of reason, amen. BTW, I'm pretty sure if the prick ever got you down, he'd stomp your eyeballs out, no conscience.

lol. lets hope not
hehe

 

[ANC]

stop calling it a war in iraq... its an illegal invasion, period.

 

[LightFusion]

yeap. the war pisses me off. if we would have spent 1% of the money we spent on the war into devolping an alternate energy car we wouldn't need oil today...,. (for our cars)

 

[bigjesse1922]

stop calling it a war in iraq... its an illegal invasion, period.

I agree completely. Your correct, I should be more accurate with my vocabulary.

yeap. the war pisses me off. if we would have spent 1% of the money we spent on the war into devolping an alternate energy car we wouldn't need oil today...,. (for our cars)

Agreed. But we don't do what's right because our politicans are bottle-fed by corporate America. That's who really controls this country, big business!

 

[chuckbane]

yeap. the war pisses me off. if we would have spent 1% of the money we spent on the war into devolping an alternate energy car we wouldn't need oil today...,. (for our cars)

Impressive, I like to see people still know this kind of shit.
It really pisses you off, and thats why we need to be informed.
What has been going on in the middle east for the past *seems like forever* needs to come to an end so both countries can move on to more important things. For instance, alternative, renew-able and clean fuel source. Or something closer to it damnit!!
Maybe we could take some money and create some jobs too, we need some fucking jobs here!

Let me ask one thing.

Where is the bail-out for the common man? Where is the bail-out for all the wounded?

Fuck any person who condones this atrocity, and sadly enough, there are many of you.

and love for the rest of ya!

p.s. i would give you some rep but I cant figure out how to do it on this new design. Just when I was figuring out the other one they went and dang changed it on me.

 

[Parker]

I agree with you that WWII was the biggest factor in getting the US out of the Great Depression. It's a fact.

But what now? Are you advocating for a WWIII as economic stimulus!? I was trying to clairify the gravity of the situtation with historical context, not to promote a return to pre WWII fiscal thinking.

LMAO how in the world did you get ViRedd was advocating WW3 from his post?
I guess my pot is a ton weaker than yours.

 

[max420thc]

I think sometime people forget that one day they will die. Everyone dies sooner or later. And when you do, it's not how fat your bank account is, that matters. its not how big of a house you have. Its not the shoes you wear.
It's the smiles you put on others faces. The people you helped have a better life. The amount of love you have and have given.

But hey, keep toiling. Keep wasting your life to slave to money and material items. Fine by me, but dont be a fucking arrogant prick about it.

so..its a waste of time and life to work?LOL,,typical..you guys got that one wrong..its a waste of my time to work my ass off..then give it to uncle sugar to give to you..because you dont want to waste your time working..you would rather me work and pay for everything..sounds like a good plan...the only problem is...i dont pay any tax;s..not anymore..now who you going to soak for your living and your economy..as you should know..but i doubt if you are smart enough to understand you are about to be in the mist of a DEPRESSION....from hell...caused by...your why work attitude when someone else will pay my way...well..not as many of us will have to worry about work and jobs soon.as most of you losers will be unemployed..and as for me..ill just keep shorting the market..and making my investments and reading my finnancials and stock reports and keep getting RICHER..while you fools loose your homes.your jobs..your savings..many divorces caused by the finnancial stress of it all..many of you will loose your retirements..matter of fact most people will loose their retirements and medical bennies...i am without a doubt highly enjoying this economy and i really love listening to you peasants whine and cry...how someone owes you...one day you will wake up and relieze NO ONE OWE'S YOU SHIT..NOT ONLY THAT..UNLESS YOU GO AND GET IT YOURSELFS..YOUR NOT GOING TO HAVE IT...i bet your momma never told you the story of the grass hopper and the ant when you were growing up hu?BURN BABY BURN!!!!THE ROOF THE ROOF THE ROOF IS ON FIREEEEEE WE DONT GIVE A FUCK LET THE MOTHER FUCKER BURN....BURN MOTHER FUCKER BURNNNNN.......LOL...ITS NOT MY ROOF ON FIRE..ITS THE USSA's roof....LOL

 

[bigjesse1922]

so..its a waste of time and life to work?LOL,,typical..you guys got that one wrong..its a waste of my time to work my ass off..then give it to uncle sugar to give to you..because you dont want to waste your time working..you would rather me work and pay for everything..sounds like a good plan...the only problem is...i dont pay any tax;s..not anymore..now who you going to soak for your living and your economy..as you should know..but i doubt if you are smart enough to understand you are about to be in the mist of a DEPRESSION....from hell...caused by...your why work attitude when someone else will pay my way...well..not as many of us will have to worry about work and jobs soon.as most of you losers will be unemployed..and as for me..ill just keep shorting the market..and making my investments and reading my finnancials and stock reports and keep getting RICHER..while you fools loose your homes.your jobs..your savings..many divorces caused by the finnancial stress of it all..many of you will loose your retirements..matter of fact most people will loose their retirements and medical bennies...i am without a doubt highly enjoying this economy and i really love listening to you peasants whine and cry...how someone owes you...one day you will wake up and relieze NO ONE OWE'S YOU SHIT..NOT ONLY THAT..UNLESS YOU GO AND GET IT YOURSELFS..YOUR NOT GOING TO HAVE IT...i bet your momma never told you the story of the grass hopper and the ant when you were growing up hu?BURN BABY BURN!!!!THE ROOF THE ROOF THE ROOF IS ON FIREEEEEE WE DONT GIVE A FUCK LET THE MOTHER FUCKER BURN....BURN MOTHER FUCKER BURNNNNN.......LOL...ITS NOT MY ROOF ON FIRE..ITS THE USSA's roof....LOL

Seems how you don't even understand the difference between LOSE and LOOSE, I feel you are no longer mentally sufficient for me to debate with. Your 180 iq is bullshit, you have the writing skills of a 6th grader!

 

[Anotheroldephart]

There are some serious flaws in the argument you presented above. I don't quite see how having the US govern itself in a manner that takes into consideration it's role as part of a global community is a problem. In fact, the absence of this consideration, especially over the past 8 years, has been a tremendous problem. And no I don't want a socialist country but way to go trying to use a failed republican arguement to discredit anyone outside your party. What I want is a responsible, intelligent, ARTICULATE preisdent who can formulate cohesive and well thought plans of action while simultaneously serving as a public figure for our nation that does not make us the laughing stock of the world. What's ironic is the OBAMA IS MORE OF A PRESIDENT PRIOR TO HIS INAUGURATION THAN BUSH HAS EVER BEEN. And for the 47% who voted to continue the failed policies of the past 8 years, go back to your real America, you can keep it while the rest of us enjoy a progressive and positive future. Go read about the CCC and you'll see why Obama is on the money with his plan to build out our infrastructure and create jobs, of course you sound like the type of republican who will be incapable of admitting Obama is right about anything.

Ok, I see no where that you state the "flaws" Second you may want the likes of Iran, Russia, Somalia Argentina with their marvelous records on civil rights, human rights, and law enforcement to have a say in how I live my life, but I and everyone I know doesn't. By the way, have you seen in the news where Chavez wants to be
El Presidente for life? Another of Obamas heros. You may desire being told what you can and can not do to do, how to do it, and when to do it,What you can and cannot say, but no one I know does. It wasn't GW that got this country into the mess it's in now.. People got themselves in MOSt of the crap their in now. How much credit do most..not all..people carry? How many people own what they have? Damn few in reality.Who put guns to their collective heads ans said "buy all these things or you and your family is dead? No one zip, that's who. If you'd actually read my previous posts you'd see I am in favor of a similar program. However you knee jerk reacted when I had the audacity to disagree with you. You, and the rest of the "there there little girls and boys" we know how better to run your lives than you do..We're from the gov't and we're here to help. Yes Obama is articulate, so was Adolph, Marx.. If you can't dazzle'em with your brilliance..baffle'em with your bullshit.
Explain what Is so "new" with Obama? He's ressurected many Clnton cronies for his cabinet..Is that "new" Is rewriting dictionary definitions new. "what's the definition of is" of Clinton fame. Obama has rewritten the definition of "contact" When asked about his contact with Blago, he stated that he had not had ANY.. Surprise..surprise , surprise.. Behold.. a picture of the 2 of them shaking hands and talking.. Now, I don't know what dictionary at least the 2 of you use, but in mine that constitutes CONTACT.
By the way, what ever happened to personal responsibility? What ever happened to taking care of ones own self> Where is it written that the gov't is responsible for our well being? I've read the Con, and no where does it state the the gov't is reponsible for our happiness or well being. It does however state, that we have the right to the "pursuit of happiness"
I've noticed that with you and your ilk that when anyone has the nerve to disagree with you you holler, and pound the table(figuratively) Lenin, Stalin,and Kruschev were famous for that.
explain to me WHY we should be governed by international opinion? The way we conduct ourselves in dealing outside our borders we should listen to other opinions but within our own borders Hell no. You seem to have forgotten the Revolution and the why of it. Then we were governed by outside opinion and gee, wasn't that great!! Take some time to really read history, ours, and that of those whose opinions you want to have an impact on the way we live. Oh yeah..in some of those countries whose opinions you and your so highly regard, what we have here, RUI, and what we do<enjoy the kine<is a crime punishable by,in some of those countries, by DEATH!! one last item, in the UK did you know that any form of self defense id illegal? If you got mugged and thumped the mugger you'd be going to jail as well..Truly enlightened huh?

I'd MUCH rather have Liberty than security.

 

[Anotheroldephart]

Impressive, I like to see people still know this kind of shit.
It really pisses you off, and thats why we need to be informed.
What has been going on in the middle east for the past *seems like forever* needs to come to an end so both countries can move on to more important things. For instance, alternative, renew-able and clean fuel source. Or something closer to it damnit!!
Maybe we could take some money and create some jobs too, we need some fucking jobs here!

Let me ask one thing.

Where is the bail-out for the common man? Where is the bail-out for all the wounded?

Fuck any person who condones this atrocity, and sadly enough, there are many of you.

and love for the rest of ya!

p.s. i would give you some rep but I cant figure out how to do it on this new design. Just when I was figuring out the other one they went and dang changed it on me.

Amen to some of that.
Would it surprise any one to know that, in part, the UAW is responsible for the lack in some areas? Check out the differences between the way autos are built in Detroit and Tenn. In D 1200 man hours to build a car. Tenn 600 MH. Contractually the big 3 must build a certain number of cars..not sell..build.. As to what type of autos built..if fewer behemoth SUV's were being sold then they wouldn't be being built. If fewer congress critters and senators wern't in the insrance companies pockets we'd have more green vehicles. There are marvelous green vehicle out there. In Italy I think, therte's a compressed air car that gets 200 miles per fill. In some EU countries those fancy adult gocart style vehicles are legal. In some locales here golf carts are legal..al on roads with speed limits of 40mph or less.
As for Iraq..their gov't still wants us there for the time beIng.
The real bummer is that a lot of what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan if Clinton hadn't stopped the sanctioning of Bin Laden when there was the opportunity.

 

[bigjesse1922]

Amen to some of that.
Would it surprise any one to know that, in part, the UAW is responsible for the lack in some areas? Check out the differences between the way autos are built in Detroit and Tenn. In D 1200 man hours to build a car. Tenn 600 MH. Contractually the big 3 must build a certain number of cars..not sell..build.. As to what type of autos built..if fewer behemoth SUV's were being sold then they wouldn't be being built. If fewer congress critters and senators wern't in the insrance companies pockets we'd have more green vehicles. There are marvelous green vehicle out there. In Italy I think, therte's a compressed air car that gets 200 miles per fill. In some EU countries those fancy adult gocart style vehicles are legal. In some locales here golf carts are legal..al on roads with speed limits of 40mph or less.
As for Iraq..their gov't still wants us there for the time beIng.
The real bummer is that a lot of what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan if Clinton hadn't stopped the sanctioning of Bin Laden when there was the opportunity.

The real bummer is that the US doesn't get it! We have been mucking around in an attempt to dominate the Middle East for economic and political reasons, mostly related to OIL, since 1 9 1 7!!!

How can there be peace in this world when one nation feels it has the right to decide, for other people of other faiths and beliefs, how they should live their lives, and who should rule their own country.

This invasion of Iraq is just another notch on the belt of the US that is quite long indeed in the last 108 years or so, of overthrowing the leaders of other countries because we have "national security" concerns. National security is the new buzzword for "my corporate masters want to make money here, so, yeah fuck it." People hate us because we think we are better, more valueable people and don't mind letting everyone else know it! Do the research if you think I am wrong. Saddam, Bin-Laden and the Taliban in the late-70's/early-80's, Noriega, etc., etc!! The facts are undeniable! We would describe these actions as hostile and not in accordance with a country that desired peace!! Look how the US reacted when Russia moved into Georgia and South Ossetia. I am not condoning this action, however it illustrates how we believe there are two sets of rules, which will only allow the further pervasion of arrogance into American culture, culminating in our eventual, inevitable demise as a major world power!

We have to wake up and restore America before its too late.

 

[Anotheroldephart]

The real bummer is that the US doesn't get it! We have been mucking around in an attempt to dominate the Middle East for economic and political reasons, mostly related to OIL, since 1 9 1 7!!!

How can there be peace in this world when one nation feels it has the right to decide, for other people of other faiths and beliefs, how they should live their lives, and who should rule their own country.

This invasion of Iraq is just another notch on the belt of the US that is quite long indeed in the last 108 years or so, of overthrowing the leaders of other countries because we have "national security" concerns. National security is the new buzzword for "my corporate masters want to make money here, so, yeah fuck it." People hate us because we think we are better, more valueable people and don't mind letting everyone else know it! Do the research if you think I am wrong. Saddam, Bin-Laden and the Taliban in the late-70's/early-80's, Noriega, etc., etc!! The facts are undeniable! We would describe these actions as hostile and not in accordance with a country that desired peace!! Look how the US reacted when Russia moved into Georgia and South Ossetia. I am not condoning this action, however it illustrates how we believe there are two sets of rules, which will only allow the further pervasion of arrogance into American culture, culminating in our eventual, inevitable demise as a major world power!

We have to wake up and restore America before its too late.

So, we're wrong for ,in some cases assisting those that want the CHOICE keep, or attain it. But Russia, in Georgia, the Taliban , in Afghanistan. Hamas in Israel, or anybody else who is attempting, by Force to dictate to thers how they live are right? Huh? So True dictatorships doing that in the case of their"national Security are justified?
The true problom imo is that far too many people can't see beyond the light cast by their camp fire.

 

[medicineman]

Dear sweet Mr. Max:

I'd really like you to point out how it will cost 250K per job. Another thing, why is someone with a 180 IQ hanging out with a bunch of stoners? Shouldnt you be inventing anti-gravity or something useful instead of hanging out here and calling us retards.