Dutchmasters Reverse,a study of hermie's.

panhead

Well-Known Member
hey panhead, question for ya...I know that water is effective at sterilising male pollen, did you spray your heries when they had male flowers or before? if while, than why the hell wouldnt it sterilise the pollen?
Dig this,i was waiting a while before i posted this new info but since you asked here goes.

We've covered this earlier in the test but for those late in the thread here's a quick run down on the viability of pollen in a reverse/penetrator treated hermie.

The hermies i had were loaded with pollen sacks,when i say loaded i cant over state the number of sacks that formed,i sprayed those plants on the 1st day of budding as well as day 10 of budding,not one leaf was missed,i drenched the plants & even lifted the leaves & drenched the under sides of every leaf,after they started dropping pollen sacks all over i segregated them in another room before any pollen was released,then it hit me to see if the pollen in ther sacks remained viable,i then put a few true females in the room with them,the females were heavily pollinated.

Ok now for the new info.

I posted that i killed off the plants that were hermie as well as the pollinated females,this wasnt entirely the case,i did get rid of them but i did not kill them,i have a 49 year old brother in law who's a pizza delievery boy & allways mooching weed from my wife,he allways wants to grow as well,he knew i was gonna chop the plants so he asked if he could have them,i explained that any bud would be ultra seedy & not yeild very much,he said 3 joints were better than nothing, we both laughed & i agreed to let him have them after calling him a bum.

Even though he's a dick i figured i'd try & help decrease the seeds so he'd get more smoke so i drenched both the pollinated females & the hermies,4 plants total,i used a little over half a quart of full strength mixture,i sent him home with 2 pollinated females & the 2 hermies along with a 400 watt hps i had laying around & a few other goodies like a timer & some nutes.

A few days later he calls me & asks what i think is a stupid question,he wants to know if he can take a pair of tweezers & pluck seeds off before they are engulfed within new bud growth,ive never plucked seeds off a plant while it was alive so i decide maybe his question isnt that stupid,i figure i'd take 2 more females in heavy bud with me & drop them off to see if the pollen was still viable after 2 treatments before the pollen sacks dispersed any pollen & once after they were releasing pollen heavily,

I get there & put the plants in his lil room,now were sitting there like silly idiots plucking seeds with tweezers,they popped out easy as hell with zero damage to the bud, i was suprised as hell at how easy an immature seed comes right out.

A few days later he called me up crying about the new females i brought him starting to develop seeds,that strain is allways full of massive amounts of swollen calyx's durring heavy bud so i think he's confusing swollen calyx's with seed development & go over to take a look,sure enough the 2 new females were developing seeds on every last bud,before those last 2 plants finish they will be seeded very heavily.

So ive figured out that no matter how many times you spray the plants or when you spray them the pollen contained within an intact pollen sack that has not ruptured & released its pollen content leaves that pollen in a viable state,pollen potency is not effected or diminished in any way.

The only thing i can see the reverse being effective for at this point is to knock down pollen that has been released allready,pretty shitty considering a very light mixture of dish soap & water sprayed will do the exact same thing & dont cost $50.

On a non reverse/penetrator note the seed plucking turned out to be a kick ass idea he had,where we plucked the seeds new bud growth has taken place,the buds look a little goofy from the amount of seeds we plucked but i can see where they are filling back in,this may end up being usefull if somebody has some seeds in their buds & dont want the seeds to effect resale value.

Ive still got 1 full jug of reverse & less than 1/4 jug of penetrator that i can use on any late blooming hermies,or try on another seed grow,other than the unexplained female to male ratio i had when starting from seed im calling bullshit on reverse/penetrator working to control/kill hermies under the conditions i tested the products under,as well as using the products as a pollen knock down to treat unruptured pollen sacks & kill the pollen before its released.
 

FLoJo

Well-Known Member
so would you say that it still did increase the number of females from seed other than the ones that hermd early on you and the females that you whored out to them hehe
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
so would you say that it still did increase the number of females from seed other than the ones that hermd early on you and the females that you whored out to them hehe
Hmmmm,hmmmmm,hmmmm,im left here wondering what the hell happened,after seeing how very poorly the reverse products worked for their intended and advertised use my mind tells me that the products didnt do anything at all except cost me cash,im thinking snake oil,but..................

The highest female to male ratio ive ever had was in the high 90% range,ive never experienced an absolute 100% female ratio from standard beans,even with my own beans ive never had that high a female ratio,there was one plant that was culled for slow growth that never showed sex though,with that said im claiming 100% female ratio.

After some instruction from other growers on this site who are more skilled than i am I bred those beans my ownself from healthy females & a healthy male i put outdoors & collected all its pollen,then carefully pollinated select buds for seeding,who knows maybe somehow ive bred them to be feminised,ive retraced all my steps in breeding the beans & can find no reason they'd be feminised :confused:

I dont know what the hell happened but the reverse had to have forced sex or had a deciding factor on what sex the plants would end up,the numbers are just way too large to be blown off as luck or a fluke,im confused as to how or why but somehow the dutchmasters had to have effected the ratio.
 

bgmike8

Well-Known Member
panhead>>> im sorry, i reread this thread but i wasnt sure; did you spray the plant according to directions during the beginning of flowering?
 

smokeybandit22

Well-Known Member
I can answer that-you MUST do it prior to entering flowering. a week into flowering may be too late, read through my tests in this thread. also yes according to instructions-again read my tests- I sprayed with diluted concentration and made this much much worse. spray em about 3-7 days prior to flower and than again if you want 10 days later, although I did not need to-the first was enough. the directions are confusing, but it should be something like 1 part penetrator to 3 or 4 parts reverse. it is here in this thread somewhere.
 

BigBudBalls

Well-Known Member
More for a comical irony aspect. But if a week before flowering, they can't call it 'reverse' since you may not know its a hermie (I guess, thats the marketing trick)

(Only playing devil's advocate)

I can answer that-you MUST do it prior to entering flowering. a week into flowering may be too late, read through my tests in this thread. also yes according to instructions-again read my tests- I sprayed with diluted concentration and made this much much worse. spray em about 3-7 days prior to flower and than again if you want 10 days later, although I did not need to-the first was enough. the directions are confusing, but it should be something like 1 part penetrator to 3 or 4 parts reverse. it is here in this thread somewhere.
 

smokeybandit22

Well-Known Member
More for a comical irony aspect. But if a week before flowering, they can't call it 'reverse' since you may not know its a hermie (I guess, thats the marketing trick)

(Only playing devil's advocate)
good point. in fact it is Anti Reverse-cause one you got em, if u spray em, the male sacs will overpopulate the earth. they should call it-Stop 'Em. or Femi Spray.
 

DaveTheNewbie

Well-Known Member
having read "stuff" recently, mostly regarding la-femme and how to get the most females from your seeds, i have formed an idea.
some people are of the opinion that plants decide thier sex in weeks 3 and 4 of veg. given that preflowers will show around week 8 or so, sex is determined BEFORE flowering. I mean if you can get male or female preflowers in veg then you know that plant has made up its mind which its gonna be.

sooo, i would suggest a trial where you apply the reverse once or twice only in weeks 3 and 4 of veg, and then never again.
i feel that you did in fact get an amazing amount of females, but somewhere along the line you got an amazing amount of hermies.

i am going to try a combo of seed soak and la femme on my next run (only 9 seeds - im small time)

just my 2 cents
 

eza82

Well-Known Member
Dutch Master Reverse, Reverses by using phospholipids to help with the rapid uptake of phosphorus you can knockdown male flowers in certain dioecious plants quickly & effectively
came from : http://www.cultivatingeden.net/dutchadd.htm

This is the first time Ive read this about dutch master reverse...... Phos intresting. Has anybody just used a high phos NPK mix to effectivly get same results? Or has Phos EVER been associated or played part in the DNA of MJ plants as far as your aware??
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Dutch Master Reverse, Reverses by using phospholipids to help with the rapid uptake of phosphorus you can knockdown male flowers in certain dioecious plants quickly & effectively
came from : http://www.cultivatingeden.net/dutchadd.htm

This is the first time Ive read this about dutch master reverse...... Phos intresting. Has anybody just used a high phos NPK mix to effectivly get same results? Or has Phos EVER been associated or played part in the DNA of MJ plants as far as your aware??
You mean the first time you heard about this besides when I posted about this over a month ago on New Years Eve day? :bigjoint: https://www.rollitup.org/1845698-post55.html
 

smokeybandit22

Well-Known Member
Hey Pan, I am chopping the test subjects as we speak and have something interim interesting to report... the full bore hermie whose Reverse effects well had no effects, that clone that was sprayed properly-cutting her up I now notice full open male flowers with the bananas and all-only a couple on each nug-but the interesting thing is...no pollen. serioulsy. when you rub a male flower in your fingers you get the pollen like powder. here, none. not a seed to boot that backs this up. odd. Im am gonna keep checking as I go.
 

panhead

Well-Known Member
Dont ya love harvest time,its like xmas for stoners,i started chopping last week,ive only got a few plants left then they are all down.

I found quite a few empty yellow hermie pollen sacks in mine as well,i also have started seeing seeds in a few buds,nothing real terrible but seeds none the less.

Let us know if you find any seeds,so far ive just started smoking some of the buds as they come out of the dryers & only very randonly am i finding seeds,even then they are not in evry bud.
 

eza82

Well-Known Member
You mean the first time you heard about this besides when I posted about this over a month ago on New Years Eve day? :bigjoint: https://www.rollitup.org/1845698-post55.html
Sorry MINDPHUK I was not on thread a month ago............I didnt read your post and every post following, other wise I would have quoted.....sorry if you took offense..... have a toke.....

I think that PHOS could be a turn key for female DNA..... and after alot of research also ethylene......

Intrested to see some conclusions............:bigjoint:
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Sorry MINDPHUK I was not on thread a month ago............I didnt read your post and every post following, other wise I would have quoted.....sorry if you took offense..... have a toke.....

I think that PHOS could be a turn key for female DNA..... and after alot of research also ethylene......

Intrested to see some conclusions............:bigjoint:
You know I was just bustin' your balls don't you? That's why I put the smoking smiley at the end of my comment.

Seriously, that's why I linked to the thread to just let you know it was mentioned, but I really didn't get an answer from Pan, so I'm actually glad you brought it up again.

I will go have that bongsmilie now. Have a great day! :peace:
 

eza82

Well-Known Member
You know I was just bustin' your balls don't you? That's why I put the smoking smiley at the end of my comment.

Seriously, that's why I linked to the thread to just let you know it was mentioned, but I really didn't get an answer from Pan, so I'm actually glad you brought it up again.

I will go have that bongsmilie now. Have a great day! :peace:
Thanx champ..... I dont like steping where its not wanted..........

Have you guys thought about the turn keys for female hormone production? (ie: timing or what age dose development start, what are the contributing atmospheric conditions, environmental (which is mentioned all the time as STRESS), through to the BALANCE of the 5 different basic hormones within the developing female MJ plant, etc, etc, etc

- I thought in the persuit of turning all things female... this would be a consideration. "apparently Dutch master Reverse has" with the development of this product....... but seems like bad results ?????
 

bgmike8

Well-Known Member
hello. i am going to try this reverse on 30 plants i got from various bag seed. the only thing is, the fucking bottle of reverse doesnt have any goddamn directions.

hey panhead>>> i am using sm90 as the penetrator. what ratio did you use to get 100% females?

the plants are in my grow journal on my signature
 

Smo KING

Well-Known Member
wow great thread i just purchased some everse and penetrator yesterday as i had a hermie the other day I have since killed it ..I sprayed yesterday and will do again in 9 days I will post my results
 

smokeybandit22

Well-Known Member
the shit works, but you have to administer it propely, meaning right before flowering and 10 days or so into it. becareful with the penetrator the mix is like 10 of reverse to 1 of penetrator.
spraying in the middle of flowering actually makes it much worse.
sprayed propely, you may still find some ocassional male flowers when harvesting/trimming but you will find they are not viable, have very little pollen and what pollen is there is not viable. I found some male balls in a fully propely sprayed plant at harvest but not a single seed.

best for preventative maint with a known strain. caution when using after hermie already popped
 
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