Shoot for MAX-yeild OR Fast-turnover/perpetual??? Please advise.

[TheBotOnist]

I know this may sound like a dumb question but I really need some good advice. The situation is kind of complicated and I can be long winded so please bear wit me...

My main question is really what would ya'll do with what I got if your ultimate goal is to always have qaulity smoke without having to deal with the 'market'. Between me and my wife, we smoke a lot. Almost 2 ozs a month but the local is poor qaulity and expensive.

Due to this I recently spent what is a lot of $ to me (over 1/2 a grnd) to get a nice operation set up. My train of thought is "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he is set for life." Rather than buying a bunch of poor smoke I want to grow good smoke, but I NEED to smoke, so I want to make sure I can get the most weed for my money.

Heres what I am working with.

Room Deminsions: 44" wide, 66" long, and 8 feet tall.

Light System: 400w MH/HPS convsion w/ 250CFM in-lne fan for cooling and air exchange. With 4 sided reflector

I plan on trying my first attempt at DWC so I have the folloing iteams for that:

10 5" net pots.
dual output air pump w/ extra stones and tubing/fittings.
TDS/PPM meter w/ calibration soulution
PH meter w/ calibration soulution
Hydroton 10L bag
1" Rockwool cubes
Advance Nutriants 3-part mix Plus BigBud powdr.
Extra money for a rubbermade resivoir.

So... What size tank should I buy? How many plants should I put per tank.

Would it be best to grow a couple really big plants or a should I try to grow many small plants or take clones (never tried) and go SOG? What would give me more yield.

Was it worth shelling out the extra $ for the MH conversion or would just a 400w HPS beenthe right choice.

Is DWC as easy and fast as everyone makes it seem?

Anyone wanna take a stab at it?

Thanks in advance.

 

[TheBotOnist]

Maybe the question is to broad. I just re-read it sober and it seems rather ambigous.

Please feel free to pick through it and just bounce ideas off me. I need some input because I am ready to start setting up but I need a direction. My huge order from HTG didn't come with directons for the grow room lol

Sog, Scrog, Two trees??? what do you all think?
How many plants can I fit under that light and harvest if I sog/scrog? Shooting for a 3'x3.5' flowering area for max lumens psf.

 

[ZenOne]

Well Lets see some pictures of the equipment your going to be using,
And Do you have seeds? If so what strain?
and your going to be doing bubbleponics im assuming?
Just give me a lil more info and ill try to help to the best of my ablility and mabe more people will join in!
Keeep Smokin...

 

[BloodShot420]

yo man... so let me get this straight...

aiming at 2oz per month for the both of you...

using a 3.5' x 5.5' space... or 19.25 sq ft.

if you can get the DWC to work out for you - you will be able to blow this closet up (with good weed)... DWC in my opinion, is the fastest system i've ever grown with - but it also has some downsides... plants react very quickly to any problems, the same way the react quickly to ideal conditions... if anything happens, and they dont get water for a day, or the air pumps die for a day... they have a high chance of dying within 24hrs... nutrient temperature is also critical (which was my problem).

how many plants? doesnt really matter - how many lights? thats the question.

my garden is about 15 sq ft... and i use 2000watts of HPS - overkill? maybe.

for a beginner grower, i would expect to get about 1/2 gram per watt of HID you have in your closet. (400w = 200g in approx 3 months)

but you also want to make sure you have enough light... if you were to grow in the whole 19sq ft, you would only be putting 21w/sq ft on the ground with a 400w... usually you want at least 50w/sq ft - but you can go up to 100w/sq ft... (mine is a little over 100 and they thrive)

the more lights you add, the more heat builds up in the room, so ventilation becomes a problem... once you get it vented to stay cool you should be able to start working on your yield... add co2, figure out how to maximize your space, practice some advanced techniques to get more bud...

i think you will find that your yield will be directly related to the wattage of HPS you have... if you want 2 oz a month, you will need 6-8 oz harvests... which will require about 1200 watts... i'd look for two 600w systems if you can afford it... that will actually set you up... if you only had 1 400w, you will probably find yourself buying more street herb while you are between harvests - then your wife will bitch at you for spending most your money on the grow stuff, and the rest on herb... thats what mine would do

 

[Syriuslydelyrius]

Was it worth shelling out the extra $ for the MH conversion or would just a 400w HPS beenthe right choice.

Thanks in advance.

If you have just 1 chamber set up and set that 1 chamber to veg with the MH conversion and the HPS for flowering then shell out the extra for the MH onversion.

If your goal is to grow "Head Stash" you should be thinking 2 chambers. I have heard it a ton "i want max yeld here is my set up" Then they go on to describe 1 chamber. Then the next thing they explain is how much they smoke in a month then of course the question is "will this set up give me that yeld" If we are talking 1 chamber and you veg for 2 months then flower for 8 to 10 for a grand total of 4.5 months (yeah could be a bit less depending on plant strain and grow conditions) Lets call it 4 months just to make the math simple your 1 chamber must now yeld 8+ ounces. Is this possible? Yes, however your now waiting that 4 months between crops.

2 chambers is the way to go, Spend the majority of the budget on the flowering chamber making sure that it has the best lights, ventilation, neuts and etc. The veg chamber doesnt have to anything expensive or extravigent. Some cheap CFL's will be efficient for veg. This Veg chamber will be where you keep your mother plant(s) and produce clones.

If you were to split that space of yours into 2 chambers 1 on top of the other with the top being for flowering. 44in = 3.6 feet 66in= 5.5 feet. You have 8 foot split that in half (or make the flowering chamber 4.5 feet tall and veg 3.5 feet) so 3.6 feet X 5.5 feet X 4.5 feet flowering chamber is 86.625 sq ft which is 8 m2. Most seed banks will give you an average yeld amount for SOG in grams per m2 this will help you estimate how much yeld from your space and when you do this math and your strain is 350 to 450g per m2 use the lower number and round off and estimate low so when your yeld out does what you expected you are pleasantly suprized.

Two 2 chambers will allow you to do a "rotation" where you could then have a new harvest every few weeks because the plants in the flowering chamber are all at a differant stage of the flowering cycle. Even if you were to make a full batch of clones and load the flowering chamber full of plants that are the same age to then harvest all at once your still ahead of the game compared to having just 1 chamber because you are cloning and vegitating the new crop during the same time the current one is being flowered. Even if your lumens per foot in the veg chamber suck those plants still have 7 to 11 weeks of "bonus" grow time before being moved over to the chamber with the good light. 8 to 10 cheap 125w incadescent equilvant bulbs that are actally 26w or so are sufficient (and even less lighting would work), add in 1 or 2 of the 125w actual wattage CFL's and the veg lighting is more than addiquate.

Keep reading the forums, and think and plan everything out. Plan the work. Work the plan, its as simple as that.

Goodluck and may all your crops be sticky!

 

[TheBotOnist]

Thanks for oll the bloodshot! That helps alot.

I can't add more light yet but I have seen pretty good yeild on RUI with 400MH/HPS. Do you really hink a littl <24 oz a year is impossible to reach with out geting drastically more light, vent, CO2??

I have high hopes for my DWC. I have done tons of reading and I think I can make it happen. Thanks agian.

 

[TheBotOnist]

If you have just 1 chamber set up and set that 1 chamber to veg with the MH conversion and the HPS for flowering then shell out the extra for the MH onversion.

If your goal is to grow "Head Stash" you should be thinking 2 chambers. I have heard it a ton "i want max yeld here is my set up" Then they go on to describe 1 chamber. Then the next thing they explain is how much they smoke in a month then of course the question is "will this set up give me that yeld" If we are talking 1 chamber and you veg for 2 months then flower for 8 to 10 for a grand total of 4.5 months (yeah could be a bit less depending on plant strain and grow conditions) Lets call it 4 months just to make the math simple your 1 chamber must now yeld 8+ ounces. Is this possible? Yes, however your now waiting that 4 months between crops.

2 chambers is the way to go, Spend the majority of the budget on the flowering chamber making sure that it has the best lights, ventilation, neuts and etc. The veg chamber doesnt have to anything expensive or extravigent. Some cheap CFL's will be efficient for veg. This Veg chamber will be where you keep your mother plant(s) and produce clones.

If you were to split that space of yours into 2 chambers 1 on top of the other with the top being for flowering. 44in = 3.6 feet 66in= 5.5 feet. You have 8 foot split that in half (or make the flowering chamber 4.5 feet tall and veg 3.5 feet) so 3.6 feet X 5.5 feet X 4.5 feet flowering chamber is 86.625 sq ft which is 8 m2. Most seed banks will give you an average yeld amount for SOG in grams per m2 this will help you estimate how much yeld from your space and when you do this math and your strain is 350 to 450g per m2 use the lower number and round off and estimate low so when your yeld out does what you expected you are pleasantly suprized.

Two 2 chambers will allow you to do a "rotation" where you could then have a new harvest every few weeks because the plants in the flowering chamber are all at a differant stage of the flowering cycle. Even if you were to make a full batch of clones and load the flowering chamber full of plants that are the same age to then harvest all at once your still ahead of the game compared to having just 1 chamber because you are cloning and vegitating the new crop during the same time the current one is being flowered. Even if your lumens per foot in the veg chamber suck those plants still have 7 to 11 weeks of "bonus" grow time before being moved over to the chamber with the good light. 8 to 10 cheap 125w incadescent equilvant bulbs that are actally 26w or so are sufficient (and even less lighting would work), add in 1 or 2 of the 125w actual wattage CFL's and the veg lighting is more than addiquate.

Keep reading the forums, and think and plan everything out. Plan the work. Work the plan, its as simple as that.

Goodluck and may all your crops be sticky!

I understand the benifits of a veg room and a flower room.The trouble is that my MH/HP conversion is just one system that you can change the bulb in and out of. I d plan on making a mother chamber with my CFL IF I can successfuly clone. I would love a whole nother room but I am out of money and Have to use what I got.

Strains include 2 Afgan Kush from WoS, 2 Blue Cheese from BigBudda, 2 Strawberry cough from Dutch Passion all from pick and mix via attidude. Along with the freebies for spending $.

Thanks to all of you.

 

[Syriuslydelyrius]

I understand the benifits of a veg room and a flower room.The trouble is that my MH/HP conversion is just one system that you can change the bulb in and out of. I d plan on making a mother chamber with my CFL IF I can successfuly clone. I would love a whole nother room but I am out of money and Have to use what I got.

Strains include 2 Afgan Kush from WoS, 2 Blue Cheese from BigBudda, 2 Strawberry cough from Dutch Passion all from pick and mix via attidude. Along with the freebies for spending $.

Thanks to all of you.

Yes you got to go with what you got and you currently dont have anymore money to spend on it. Totally understand. Your currently useing the MH and have the timers set for veg. You will be veging for what 2 months or so. Then you switch to flowering and will be waiting another 2 weeks or so before you know what sex they are. Giving you over 2 months to aquire a 2nd timer, $50 to $100 worth of CFL's and other misc stuff. Take the best female of each strain and toss them in the veg chamber back on 18/6 light.

 

[TeaTreeOil]

Clones are easy with root stimulant.

 

[TheBotOnist]

Yes you got to go with what you got and you currently dont have anymore money to spend on it. Totally understand. Your currently useing the MH and have the timers set for veg. You will be veging for what 2 months or so. Then you switch to flowering and will be waiting another 2 weeks or so before you know what sex they are. Giving you over 2 months to aquire a 2nd timer, $50 to $100 worth of CFL's and other misc stuff. Take the best female of each strain and toss them in the veg chamber back on 18/6 light.

I don't have it set up yet man. It is all still layin on the floor from when I opened the box/checked the ligh and fan and shit.

I have thought and this is what I plan to do. I have 25 foot panda polly(black and white 6mil) and I will rig up a mother room within the closent. I will light it with the CFL I already have(see my SIG grow).

Start 2 seeds in rockwool. Veg and top/fim under MH untill I can get a nice tray of clones. I will root the clones in the mother room under CFL. Then, When they root I will put the mammas inthe mother room and the clones under MH for a quick(2week) veg. Then switch to HPS 12/12. I will use two identical rubbermade contaners for the mother and flowering room so I can just change the lids. Clones start in rockwool in a tray w/ dome.

When I can try for more clones from the mothers I will not veg under MH. They will go directly under the HPS 12/12 that the fisrt batch will be under. I figure if I stagger t right I can have constant weed with modest sized harvests.I figure I would only have to spend a little more on rubbermade and another air pump and stones. What do you think. Any tips, advise?

 

[Syriuslydelyrius]

If you got a switchable mh/hps fixture and arnt useing the MH at all then its a waste. I once had a 600w hps for flowering and I veg'ed, cloned and mothered plants under 6 flourescent 40w t12 bulbs. Now days we have T5 and CFL's that put alot more lumens per watt than the flourescents of the old days making it all that better. I have never tried putting fresh cuttings as clones in the bloom room.

Extra cost wise the 2 system way of doing it is exactly that 2 systems. So sad to say but the better way of thinking of it is double the cost. Yes you can save alot of money on that 2nd system by useing flourescents instead of MH but everything else your pretty much going to need 2 of including 2 differant sets of neuts for veg/flower.

Having a budget sorta sucks don't it? Welcome to my world! haha, Well the hard part is over when your able to pluck that 1st harvest.

Goodluck and may all your buds be sticky!

 

[Syriuslydelyrius]

I just read this again and wanted to add something about you planning on rooting clones in the bloom room. The clones root best with alot of humidy and your flowering buds wont like that wet air very well at all. If you were to have an enclousure that you can keep the cuttings warm and humid and place this in the bloom room I suppose it could work however there is another option. This would be to regenerate your plants. With just 1 room veg with a 18/6 or higher light cycle then switch to 12/12 and bloom as normal. Then harvest while leaving enough buds and vegitation on them so they will survive. Place the light cycle back to 18/6 and the plant will sprout all kinds of new growth in 2 to 3 weeks. Now I still need to point out that on occasion a plant wont regenerate and a room for just the mothers is still superior however my success at regenerating has been 90% or better. Ok so have harvested then forced them back into veg and 2 weeks have passed. You can harvest any remaining bud that hasnt grown new vegitation and you should have plenty of new veg to take clutting from. You can take a few cuttings from each and clone them or you could pretty much completly "kill" that 1 plant by splitting it up into a ton of clones yeah "kill" isnt the best term to use. Personally how I would handle it would be to just take enough clippings off each to fill the room again and those "regenerated" plants that I took my clippings from would be kept alive and veging with the cuttings and let them all veg for another 3 to 4 weeks before they went back to the flowering light cycle. I have also done things like covering the regenerated plants with brown paper bags that i painted black to give them a 12 hour light cycle while in a room with clones or seedlings that are under 18 hours of light. That was sorta a pain in the ass and the reward was that those plants matured a bit faster than the clones. I doubt though that bagging and un bagging them every day for 2 weeks was honestly worth the effort.

Regening will cost you time and smaller inital harvest, however dont let that scare you because you will getting the majority of the harvest and keeping those plants alive and back to growing new vegitation. The stem and roots are what takes the most time and energy to develop and the regenerated plants already have nice roots and thick stems so they are ahead of the game and will veg like mad before the clones are ready to go. You will be then looking at them out doing the clones and again wish you had a seperate flowering room.

Hopefully I have atleast given you enough info to decide what to do. ROFL..