kilowatt hps junkies

[8deez8]

First I must say that as much as I love what the internet has done for growing, it is quite tedious to rummage through these sites for useful information.

Sure there are GroFaq's, but they always leave something out and it denegrates the advantages of the instant information cesspool that is the internet.

So in bitching about the more vacuous and frivilous opinions with which everyone clogs the forums, I've made you read some clogging of my own, and you'll have to wait just a little longer to....

Down to the point... I would just like to offer this nugget of information as I see it overlooked by the most advanced growers and I've yet to see anyone put it forth.

HPS are more efficient in lumen output than other HIDS, most of you I'm sure know that.

But as for the different wattages, and I'm sure these bulbs vary,

THE 600 WATT Bulb Lumen/watt ARE LEAPS AND BOUNDS (actually about 20%) more efficient than 400 watters AND EVEN about 15% more efficient than the 1000 watters, (which may explain the high bulb cost of the 600's)...?

I can't believe I haven't heard more on this esp when reading commercial grows that use big juice, not to mention with the 600 watters you can have more evenly dispersed light.

C'mon get it together guyyyssssssssssss

 

[SpruceZeus]

Thats a heck of a first post.
First off, welcome to riu.
Secondly, you're gonna have to read alot of crap, thats the way it is, but its better this way. Rather than reading a concise guide that answers all your questions you will have to read a dozen different answers to the same question, and decide for yourself what the answer is.... blah blah blah, anyhow...
While on paper 600 watt lamps may have a higher lumens to watts ratio, many experienced growers find that the good ole 1k is more effective in that it is more intense per lamp. Of course with every lamp you add comes another ballast, reflector, possibly cooltube, fan and set of cord being run around the growroom.
Its all about what works for you, they wouldn't make a selection of bulbs if one was better than all the others in every situation.

 

[Greenisgold]

Where the hell have you been as this has been common knowledge for years now. Nice first post!

 

[8deez8]

I have not seen this posted anywhere and I've read more than a few posts, however,

I will never read them all,
however,

what is indicative to me that this is overlooked knowledge is the fact that I find very few 600watters, and juice-strapped commercial guys talking about there 1000watters on here and adding up total wattage at the end...

I'm just saying, 600w over 1000w PROS AND CONS, (additions welcome)

Pros-
1. more even light distribution/canopy (because there are more fixtures)

2. (A) 15% (20% for 400w) more efficient use of biggest user of power in grow ops.

(this alone should be enough to encourage people to swap. You can convert this to g/watt, percent thc, or whatever other useless irrelevant figure you want, bottom line 15% more light equals (+-15%?) extra weight for the same power)

(B) Less heat, (as proofed by the first law of thermodynamics [more lumen per watt = less energy available for waste heat])

Cons-
more ballasts/bulbs/wires.



15% more light, (+-15% less heat) in your flowering chamber for the same juice.

600W REVOLUTION?

 

[spiked1]

It has been discussed from time to time here, but It's been a while.

 

[mindphuk]

I have not seen this posted anywhere and I've read more than a few posts, however,

I will never read them all,
however,

what is indicative to me that this is overlooked knowledge is the fact that I find very few 600watters, and juice-strapped commercial guys talking about there 1000watters on here and adding up total wattage at the end...

I'm just saying, 600w over 1000w PROS AND CONS, (additions welcome)

Pros-
1. more even light distribution/canopy (because there are more fixtures)

2. (A) 15% (20% for 400w) more efficient use of biggest user of power in grow ops.

(this alone should be enough to encourage people to swap. You can convert this to g/watt, percent thc, or whatever other useless irrelevant figure you want, bottom line 15% more light equals (+-15%?) extra weight for the same power)

(B) Less heat, (as proofed by the first law of thermodynamics [more lumen per watt = less energy available for waste heat])

Cons-
more ballasts/bulbs/wires.



15% more light, (+-15% less heat) in your flowering chamber for the same juice.

600W REVOLUTION?

There is another con you failed to mention. Although you are correct that the 600w run cooler so you can bring them closer to the canopy, if you are growing larger plants, the buds on the lower nodes won't get as much light from a 600w as a 1000w. Penetration of the canopy on plants above say about 30" in height starts to become an issue. So if you think about it for commercial growers, that 15% savings in energy may in fact produce 15% fewer buds, or low quality popcorn buds. For SOG, SCROG or any grow where plants are kept to a reasonable height, the 600w is definitely the way to go.

 

[IslandGreenGuy]

At 1 ft. approx. 1000 watt light is 100% as effective as it's gonna be. At 2 Ft. it's only 25% as effective as it was at 1 foot.
The 600 watter is only effectice 100% at 7.325 inches. You cant get it that close without risking burning the plants, thus making it much less effective then the 1000 watter.
Just a little tidbit for you.

 

[mindphuk]

At 1 ft. approx. 1000 watt light is 100% as effective as it's gonna be. At 2 Ft. it's only 25% as effective as it was at 1 foot.
The 600 watter is only effectice 100% at 7.325 inches. You cant get it that close without risking burning the plants, thus making it much less effective then the 1000 watter.
Just a little tidbit for you.

I'm sorry, you are not making sense. How can a lamp be 100% at any distance except 0"? Lumens =/= Lux.
Figure a minimum safe distance from the canopy for each light and you will see why the 600w is more efficient.

Take a look at this chart

Can you see the foot-candles produced by the 600w bulb at a safe 8" is 65,000 and the 1000w bulb produces 64,000 fc at 10", the minimum safe recommended distance (although most keep 1000s at least 12" dropping the foot-candles to 44,000 at the canopy level)

 

[IslandGreenGuy]

Without having to post giant diagram of the Light efficientcy triangle. I will explain in Retard what I said Before...

At 12 inches from the light a 1000 bulb cannot be any more efficient. If it was closer it could burn the plant. I don't give a fuck about Foot candles because only people who Google shit to try to be smart talk about them... I didn't say it wouldn't be brighter closer to the bulb. I doesn't matter what you try to argue anyway. Everyone knows that 1000w is better then 600w, No matter what.

Oh ya, by the way, your Chart is Wrong about several Key facts. Different 1000w bulbs exist. There are to many to name. Some have less Lumens some more. Your Chart is just an example of one type (which they didn't even name). There is no way for you to prove that it's even Right. Maybe the creator of it sells 600Watt lights... But I bet everyone in here can prove that a 1000watts makes more bud then 600, every single time.

I have both 600 and 1000 watt lights.
But thanks sound smart

 

[mindphuk]

Without having to post giant diagram of the Light efficientcy triangle. I will explain in Retard what I said Before...

At 12 inches from the light a 1000 bulb cannot be any more efficient. If it was closer it could burn the plant. I don't give a fuck about Foot candles because only people who Google shit to try to be smart talk about them... I didn't say it wouldn't be brighter closer to the bulb. I doesn't matter what you try to argue anyway. Everyone knows that 1000w is better then 600w, No matter what.

Oh ya, by the way, your Chart is Wrong about several Key facts. Different 1000w bulbs exist. There are to many to name. Some have less Lumens some more. Your Chart is just an example of one type (which they didn't even name). There is no way for you to prove that it's even Right. Maybe the creator of it sells 600Watt lights... But I bet everyone in here can prove that a 1000watts makes more bud then 600, every single time.

I have both 600 and 1000 watt lights.
But thanks sound smart

It's not my chart, as you can see it's by CaliGrower and in the lighting thread that you should read because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I understand what you are trying to say but using incorrect terminology and explanations is going to confuse people. I'm not just correcting you for your own sake but so you don't confuse the OP and other lighting newbies. You are confusing efficiency with output/area. Efficiency can be used in multiple ways including how efficient the lamp converts electricity to light energy as well as the way you are trying to describe where reflectors and other factors begin to play a larger role.

That chart is not wrong, but you are correct, it is only for that one theoretical 1000w lamp. However, it's all a mathematical formula and can be done for any lamp and you will find that the 600w is more efficient in lumen/watt. Also, the fact that it can be closer to the canopy than a 1000w, those extra few inches makes a big difference because of the distance squared rule.

If you think this is all internet learning and doubt my credentials, I suggest you go back and search for some of my other posts. Some of my first posts here on RIU were lighting related because of my background.
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html

edit: I'm having a hard time finding a lamp with more than 140,000 lumens. Can you provide a link?

 

[IslandGreenGuy]

It's not my chart, as you can see it's by CaliGrower and in the lighting thread that you should read because you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. I understand what you are trying to say but using incorrect terminology and explanations is going to confuse people. I'm not just correcting you for your own sake but so you don't confuse the OP and other lighting newbies. You are confusing efficiency with output/area. Efficiency can be used in multiple ways including how efficient the lamp converts electricity to light energy as well as the way you are trying to describe where reflectors and other factors begin to play a larger role.

That chart is not wrong, but you are correct, it is only for that one theoretical 1000w lamp. However, it's all a mathematical formula and can be done for any lamp and you will find that the 600w is more efficient in lumen/watt. Also, the fact that it can be closer to the canopy than a 1000w, those extra few inches makes a big difference because of the distance squared rule.

If you think this is all internet learning and doubt my credentials, I suggest you go back and search for some of my other posts. Some of my first posts here on RIU were lighting related because of my background.
https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html

edit: I'm having a hard time finding a lamp with more than 140,000 lumens. Can you provide a link?

First of all here is your link, one of many I must add.


http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=7062A

What I am saying is that you can grow bigger plants under a 1000w bulb then you can with a 600w bulb, regardless of any lumens/watt efficientcy chart.

I wasn't confusing anything. Whats it matter anyway. I have cooltubes anyway.

 

[mindphuk]

First of all here is your link, one of many I must add.


http://www.progressive-growth.com/proddetail.php?prod=7062A

What I am saying is that you can grow bigger plants under a 1000w bulb then you can with a 600w bulb, regardless of any lumens/watt efficientcy chart.

I wasn't confusing anything. Whats it matter anyway. I have cooltubes anyway.

Right, and I already said if you are growing bigger plants where you need to penetrate the canopy deeper, a 1000w is going to get you more, but if you are running a SOG or SCROG, supercropping, LST, etc. the 600w will do about as well. All I am saying that if you are going to use a 1000w, make sure you use it in the right circumstance. That extra bud weight comes at a cost of higher electricity costs and since the 1000w is less efficient than 600w lamps, thats more cost/weight and if you are a commercial grower, it's less net profit (unless they are stealing electricity which we all know will generally get you caught). If you're not commercial, you still pay more per ounce but with the advantage of getting more ounces at harvest.

I am merely taking issue with your attitude that 1000w lamp is "better than 600w, no matter what"

 

[toofast4u]

you guys have good points but i would like to ad something i run 3 1000 watt hps because i have them but i would love to try 600 s just because you can spread them out more 5 lamps instead of 3 would cover more square ft effectivily for sure if you have the room so either way it all depends on what you are doing and how like everything on this site so why dont you guys get it over with and just kiss and make up