Female Pistols on Male Plant = ?

spiked1

Well-Known Member
During one of my experiments I used La Femme female hormones (NAA) on a batch of 10 plants to see if it would produce all females.
This wasn't a success, I got 5x females and 5x males.
Anyway I decided to keep 1 male for breeding and have just noticed it has pistols growing mixed in with the male balls.
I wouldn't call it a hermie as it's predominately a male, and the female hormones have caused the pistols to grow, but what will happen if I

1: If I use the pollen on a female, is it likely to produse normal seeds or what can I expect?

2: If I let it pollenate itself what is likely to happen?
 

SpruceZeus

Well-Known Member
Interesting, a male plant forced hermie.
Assuming that this wasn't in fact a genetic hermie but a forced hermie, then the pollen should be unaffected and assuming it polinates a standard female should produce regular seeds. Nothing too exciting.
However, If you let this plant polinate itself. It should (i think) produce Masculinized (all male) seeds. Which, while not practical for everybody, could be of some use to the breeding types.

I'd be interested to hear some follow up on this if you end up doing anything with it.

Peace
 

spiked1

Well-Known Member
Interesting, a male plant forced hermie.
Assuming that this wasn't in fact a genetic hermie but a forced hermie, then the pollen should be unaffected and assuming it polinates a standard female should produce regular seeds. Nothing too exciting.
However, If you let this plant polinate itself. It should (i think) produce Masculinized (all male) seeds. Which, while not practical for everybody, could be of some use to the breeding types.

I'd be interested to hear some follow up on this if you end up doing anything with it.

Peace
That's exactly what I thought might happen the more I think about it,
But the male has X and Y so it could be possible to produce XX and XY seeds if it self polinates,
where a female gone hermie shoud only have XX.
I'm going to grow it out just out of curiousity.
 

SpruceZeus

Well-Known Member
stranger things have happened in nature I guess.
I never cease to be amazed at the wacky things marijuana will do.
Its also staggering how far the science of cultivation has come in the short time it has been popular (in the west, indoors)
 

bigjesse1922

Well-Known Member
I never cease to be amazed at the wacky things marijuana will do.
Its also staggering how far the science of cultivation has come in the short time it has been popular (in the west, indoors)
If you two create some sort of genetically mutated pot plant that comes and smokes my ass....I am gonna be hella pissed....:mrgreen:
 

born2killspam

Well-Known Member
Actually there is no way to know what the plant will do under normal circumstances because it hasn't been stress tested for its tendency to produce intersex flowers without hormone application.. It may not even be primarily male at all.. It is beyond rare for a observably male plant to express female after the very early stages of life.. Its believed that certain positive environmental conditions very early promote more female expression, and negative environment later will tend to promote hermies as we know them..
Wikipedia cannabis entry has quite a bit worth reading..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis
Mechanisms of sex determination

Cannabis has been described as having one of the most complicated mechanisms of sex determination among the dioecious plants.[60] Many models have been proposed to explain sex determination in Cannabis.

Based on studies of sex reversal in hemp, it was first reported by K. Hirata in 1924 that an XY sex-determination system is present.[58] At the time, the XY system was the only known system of sex determination. The X:A system was first described in Drosophila spp in 1925.[61] Soon thereafter, Schaffner disputed Hirata's interpretation,[62] and published results from his own studies of sex reversal in hemp, concluding that an X:A system was in use and that furthermore sex was strongly influenced by environmental conditions.[59]

Since then, many different types of sex determination systems have been discovered, particularly in plants.[53] Dioecy is relatively uncommon in the plant kingdom, and a very low percentage of dioecious plant species have been determined to use the XY system. In most cases where the XY system is found it is believed to have evolved recently and independently.[63]

Since the 1920s, a number of sex determination models have been proposed for Cannabis. Ainsworth describes sex determination in the genus as using "an X/autosome dosage type".[53]

Dense raceme of carpellate flowers typical of drug-type varieties of Cannabis

The question of whether heteromorphic sex chromosomes are indeed present is most conveniently answered if such chromosomes were clearly visible in a karyotype. Cannabis was one of the first plant species to be karyotyped; however, this was in a period when karyotype preparation was primitive by modern standards (see History of Cytogenetics). Heteromorphic sex chromosomes were reported to occur in staminate individuals of dioecious "Kentucky" hemp, but were not found in pistillate individuals of the same variety. Dioecious "Kentucky" hemp was assumed to use an XY mechanism. Heterosomes were not observed in analyzed individuals of monoecious "Kentucky" hemp, nor in an unidentified German cultivar. These varieties were assumed to have sex chromosome composition XX.[64] According to other researchers, no modern karyotype of Cannabis had been published as of 1996.[65] Proponents of the XY system state that Y chromosome is slightly larger than the X, but difficult to differentiate cytologically.[66]

More recently, Sakamoto and various co-authors[67][68] have used RAPD to isolate several genetic marker sequences that they name Male-Associated DNA in Cannabis (MADC), and which they interpret as indirect evidence of a male chromosome. Several other research groups have reported identification of male-associated markers using RAPD and AFLP.[17][41][69] Ainsworth commented on these findings, stating,

It is not surprising that male-associated markers are relatively abundant. In dioecious plants where sex chromosomes have not been identified, markers for maleness indicate either the presence of sex chromosomes which have not been distinguished by cytological methods or that the marker is tightly linked to a gene involved in sex determination.[53]

Environmental sex determination is known to occur in a variety of species.[70] Many researchers have suggested that sex in Cannabis is determined or strongly influenced by environmental factors.[59] Ainsworth reviews that treatment with auxin and ethylene have feminizing effects, and that treatment with cytokinins and gibberellins have masculinizing effects.[53] It has been reported that sex can be reversed in Cannabis using chemical treatment.[71] A PCR-based method for the detection of female-associated DNA polymorphisms by genotyping has been developed.
 

robert 14617

Well-Known Member
What is an hermaphrodite?


An hermaphrodite, or hermie, is a plant of one sex that develops the sexual organs of the other sex. Most commonly, a flowering female plant will develop staminate flowers, though the reverse is also true. Primarily male hermaphrodites are not as well recognized only because few growers let their males reach a point of flowering where the pistillate would be expressed.



funny its been here in the grow FAQ the hole time:hump:
 

born2killspam

Well-Known Member
Yea, but that isn't a very concise definition at all.. Typically in botany a hermaphrodite produces flowers that possess both sex organs, not separate flowers of each.. What we observe is actually a monoecious plant.. Not that it matters, its a destroyer of nugs whatever you label it..
 

robert 14617

Well-Known Member
Primarily male hermaphrodites are not as well recognized only because few growers let their males reach a point of flowering where the pistillate would be expressed.



really i think it says it all read the first post
 

DownOnWax

Well-Known Member
I am really curious about this myself.

I have a male that I saved to polinate my upcoming females but then the other day it started sprouting tons of pistils.
Now, I am not even sure if I want to polinate anything with it.

Is it a hermie with more male charecteristics?

If I do polinate a seperate plant will it produce hermie seeds? Or will it go back to being 50% male or female?
I am not even considering saving the seeds that get self- polinated.
 

born2killspam

Well-Known Member
Primarily male hermaphrodites are not as well recognized only because few growers let their males reach a point of flowering where the pistillate would be expressed.



really i think it says it all read the first post
Thing is the same trend is observed in many species where males are often allowed to grow to maturity.. Looking at monoeiecy as a survival mechanism, it takes alot more effort to produce female flowers, so there is a much better chance that a plant can produce mature pollen than mature seeds to pass on its genetics..
 

reeferMaster

Well-Known Member
it is just a male hermie. this most likly happens when you prune off all the male branches. my male was doing the same thing its coverd in balls but it also developed flower sites on the tops and then went back to pure male. according to my friends uncle you could put the male on an iv and pump it full of high phosphorus nutrient water cut all the pods off and it will grow female. ive never seen this done.but who knows?
 

born2killspam

Well-Known Member
i would cut all sacs an give it more of that female formula you gave it
That would be a waste at this stage.. NAA stimulates ethylene production, which stimulates female expression in early growth stages.. After that, excess ethylene won't promote femaleness, but depleting it can induce male flowers, and its a big part of the ripening process..
 

Drio

Well-Known Member
It is interesting to see if the plant is capable of reproducing with her own set of DNA >.<
 

born2killspam

Well-Known Member
whatever you could still grow a descent sized plant and then make butter out of it if you keep all the sacs off.
I thought the purpose of these forums was to teach ppl how to raise the bar, not promote growing like a retarded hick who puts all growers down wind of him at risk..
 

reeferMaster

Well-Known Member
well it dont hurt to experiment, i kept one male in door and polinated 2 plants and then killed the male. i think the problem is stupid people shouldet grow marijuana or better off starting with clones . one question here can a hermie female polinate the rest of your crop? or does it just get seeded bud?
 

spiked1

Well-Known Member
well it dont hurt to experiment, i kept one male in door and polinated 2 plants and then killed the male. i think the problem is stupid people shouldet grow marijuana or better off starting with clones . one question here can a hermie female polinate the rest of your crop? or does it just get seeded bud?
A hermie female will pollinate everything in range of the pollen.

That "stupid people shouldet grow marijuana" comment would be wide open to debate, seeing as the majority of people here that have grown a plant think everyone else is stupid, you only have to look at all the arguments and hate threads over trivial things to see that.:peace:
 
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