Religion, or lack of, open discussion/FRIENDLY debate.

[CaptnJack]

well stoney, in the areas i misunderstood what you were sayin, i apologise, how ever for you to say that there was no jesus, is still just as illogical, because so far, everything that science supports can fall into the same thing, the skulls as i have posted on above, how can they say they were our ancestors, what evidence do they truly have? i mean do they have a frozen body of a cromagnum? how do they know it was a species of monkey that just died off? seeing as how there has been thousands of species that have died off, but what makes them homo? what evidence? if they had a preserved body, i'd retract my statement, but they dont as far as i know, theory of evolution is just that a theory, the question of the existence of jesus, if we talking logical, as a man named jesus, His Jewish opponents had the most to gain by denying Jesus’ existence. But the evidence points in the opposite direction. Several Jewish writings also tell of His flesh-and-blood existence. Both Gemaras of the Jewish Talmud refer to Jesus. Although these consist of only a few brief, bitter passages intended to discount Jesus’ deity, these very early Jewish writings don’t begin to hint that he was not a historical person,

And as for flavius, Flavius Josephus was a noted Jewish historian who began writing under Roman authority in a.d. 67. Josephus, who was born just a few years after Jesus died, would have been keenly aware of Jesus’ reputation among both Romans and Jews. In his famous Antiquities of the Jews (a.d. 93), Josephus wrote of Jesus as a real person. “At that time lived Jesus, a holy man, if man he may be called, for he performed wonderful works, and taught men, and joyfully received the truth. And he was followed by many Jews and many Greeks. He was the Messiah.”6 Although there is dispute about some of the wording in the account, especially the reference to Jesus being the Messiah (scholars are skeptical, thinking that Christians inserted this phrase), certainly Josephus confirmed his existence. The insertion of him being the MESSIAH is the tamperment which you're talking of, not the message. If you want historical proof watch the videos i've posted especially the first and the other parts to it.

 

[CaptnJack]

And the shroud was radiocarbon dated to the 14th century, incidentally.

wrong, actually they were dated to the 14th century in 1988 with carbon 14 tests and recently voided with the los alamos tests done in 08 with micro-chemical and other analytical tests dating it back around the 1st century....incidentally.


oh and also, historically, romans used a.d. and b.c. which are both in reference to christ (anno domini, before christ), imagine that, using a reference to something/someone made up later on....

 

[CaptnJack]

also noting this exceprt "If we rely only on peer-reviewed science journals we know this: The Shroud of Turin is at LEAST 1300 years old. The images are a darkening of an otherwise clear starch and polysaccharide coating thinner than most bacteria. The Shroud of Turin is not medieval."
- http://www.factsplusfacts.com/

Images of coins, minted by Pontius Pilate for use by the Jewish population in Palestine (1st century), have been tentatively identified over both eyes of the man whose image is seen on the Shroud.

" A Second Face image has been discovered on the reverse side of the cloth. The image is in registry with the facial image on the front of the cloth. The image is superficial meaning nothing soaked through to form the image. This discovery supports a hypothesis that the images were produced by bodily amine vapor/saccharides reaction. The second face picture makes faked images implausible."
- http://www.factsplusfacts.com/

also go to that link and read everything in the center in the thin red lined box.

 

[CrackerJax]

I find it curious that a Christian nation like the US doesn't allow "heresay" evidence in the court room.

 

[Stoney McFried]

I'm responding to all of your posts in this one paragraph.I'm sorry, but if you look at most of your sources, they are ALL in some way affiliated with the church, either through funding, or personal belief, etc.If you are citing the discovery channel's documentary on the shroud as evidence, you should know none of those people were actual scientists.One is a preacher.Many things were left out.http://archaeoporn.wordpress.com/2008/03/22/discovery-channel-teaching-the-debate/ Of course the church has a LOT of money.Of course they're going to make sure there are findings in their favor.But if you really dig, you will find the real evidence of fakery.But you will believe what you want to believe.And so will I.So....I'm done with this discussion.I've proved my point, and I've done it in several threads,over and over again.To sum it all up...I even made a sig about it.

well stoney, in the areas i misunderstood what you were sayin, i apologise, how ever for you to say that there was no jesus, is still just as illogical, because so far, everything that science supports can fall into the same thing, the skulls as i have posted on above, how can they say they were our ancestors, what evidence do they truly have? i mean do they have a frozen body of a cromagnum? how do they know it was a species of monkey that just died off? seeing as how there has been thousands of species that have died off, but what makes them homo? what evidence? if they had a preserved body, i'd retract my statement, but they dont as far as i know, theory of evolution is just that a theory, the question of the existence of jesus, if we talking logical, as a man named jesus, His Jewish opponents had the most to gain by denying Jesus’ existence. But the evidence points in the opposite direction. Several Jewish writings also tell of His flesh-and-blood existence. Both Gemaras of the Jewish Talmud refer to Jesus. Although these consist of only a few brief, bitter passages intended to discount Jesus’ deity, these very early Jewish writings don’t begin to hint that he was not a historical person,

And as for flavius, Flavius Josephus was a noted Jewish historian who began writing under Roman authority in a.d. 67. Josephus, who was born just a few years after Jesus died, would have been keenly aware of Jesus’ reputation among both Romans and Jews. In his famous Antiquities of the Jews (a.d. 93), Josephus wrote of Jesus as a real person. “At that time lived Jesus, a holy man, if man he may be called, for he performed wonderful works, and taught men, and joyfully received the truth. And he was followed by many Jews and many Greeks. He was the Messiah.”6 Although there is dispute about some of the wording in the account, especially the reference to Jesus being the Messiah (scholars are skeptical, thinking that Christians inserted this phrase), certainly Josephus confirmed his existence. The insertion of him being the MESSIAH is the tamperment which you're talking of, not the message. If you want historical proof watch the videos i've posted especially the first and the other parts to it.

wrong, actually they were dated to the 14th century in 1988 with carbon 14 tests and recently voided with the los alamos tests done in 08 with micro-chemical and other analytical tests dating it back around the 1st century....incidentally.


oh and also, historically, romans used a.d. and b.c. which are both in reference to christ (anno domini, before christ), imagine that, using a reference to something/someone made up later on....

also noting this exceprt "If we rely only on peer-reviewed science journals we know this: The Shroud of Turin is at LEAST 1300 years old. The images are a darkening of an otherwise clear starch and polysaccharide coating thinner than most bacteria. The Shroud of Turin is not medieval."
- http://www.factsplusfacts.com/

Images of coins, minted by Pontius Pilate for use by the Jewish population in Palestine (1st century), have been tentatively identified over both eyes of the man whose image is seen on the Shroud.

" A Second Face image has been discovered on the reverse side of the cloth. The image is in registry with the facial image on the front of the cloth. The image is superficial meaning nothing soaked through to form the image. This discovery supports a hypothesis that the images were produced by bodily amine vapor/saccharides reaction. The second face picture makes faked images implausible."
- http://www.factsplusfacts.com/

also go to that link and read everything in the center in the thin red lined box.

No they didn't.They were on a completely different calender.

oh and also, historically, romans used a.d. and b.c. which are both in reference to christ (anno domini, before christ), imagine that, using a reference to something/someone made up later on....

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

remember stoney, he is on a plane a few notches above us....why he said he read the whole entire bible and even the koran! now there's a man with intelligence...why the good capn is a prophet too, he is certain that HE and only HE alone has done such an amazing feat....I am truly stupified!!!

 

[Stoney McFried]

Like I said,I'm done.Most of my arguments have been misread.I never mentioned flavius, I mentioned the testimonium falvium,for example.I know what I believe, and I don't know why I continue to debate in these threads,lol.Have fun, all.

remember stoney, he is on a plane a few notches above us....why he said he read the whole entire bible and even the koran! now there's a man with intelligence...why the good capn is a prophet too, he is certain that HE and only HE alone has done such an amazing feat....I am truly stupified!!!

 

[PadawanBater]

Captn, show me some proof the shroud is from the 1st century.

 

[CrackerJax]

No matter the date (I & the science world don't believe it to be 1st century) as no other scientists either), it doesn't prove a single thing. Could be anybody.

 

[Brazko]

I've been doing some extensive REsearch with some friends and we happened to stumble across one of the excluded books of the OT Bible......It was originally the story of Cane / Able / the illigetiment Son and How they were tempted by Satan...It's been re written several times by the Catholic Church, and passed off as a fairy tale, to get the young'uns while they were still ripe for the pickins...So I know it's kinda hard to believe in talking animals and all, but you gotta think outside the box.... behold one on the Missing books from the Old Testament


3 lil pigs, I couldn't believe it at first but imo, its the TRUTH

 

[CaptnJack]

remember stoney, he is on a plane a few notches above us....why he said he read the whole entire bible and even the koran! now there's a man with intelligence...why the good capn is a prophet too, he is certain that HE and only HE alone has done such an amazing feat....I am truly stupified!!!

wow greenhorn, maybe you're post would be insulting if it made sense, seeing as how i never said i read the bible and koran, someone else did, and i brought their statement into question. it'd be great if ppl actually read.

and stoney whether you're done with this thread or not isn't my concern nor care, cuz the fact remains that you are wrong about "all" of my sources, raymond rogers a LEADING scientist skeptic (during his first examination of the cloth) who passed in 05 is one of the original 24 man team in 78, and before he died HIS documentary aired on the discovery channel. so you show me how he was swayed by the church, and along with him where other scientists in the documentary without bias the LEADING scientist/skeptic, after examining the fibres taken from an earlier investigation in 1978, Ray was shocked to find cotton present too.

He said: 'The cotton fibres were fairly heavily coated with dye, suggesting they were changed to match the linen during a repair. 'I concluded that area of the shroud was manipulated by someone with great skill. 'Sue and Joe were right. The worst possible sample for carbon dating was taken.
'It consisted of different materials than were used in the shroud itself, so the age we produced was inaccurate.'

so you can say you've proven your point to me and everyone here, but if you read and try to verify your sources as factual, like the tacitus subject, which has never been concluded his writings were tampered with, just suspected and never confirmed. yet you speak as if its concrete evidence, so if thats how you define being right then sure whatever is in your head.

one of the videos WERE church related, but it still had information that can be verified from secular non church sources.

i've given science secular sources as well as third party, so im not trying to say he is the son of god at this point nor for awhile now, just the fact there is evidence that points to there bein a good chance of a historical jesus.

you will lean towards the atheist community and most sources that discredit there ever being a historic jesus are atheist researchers, and scientists, and relying on that is just as wrong as relying on the church for ones entire argument which i've been more or less accused of, (but show me how all of my sources are reliant on the church, much less most of my sources.) really show me how you concluded that.

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

my post should make sense to you.... use your intellegence and figure it out

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

this is fun your like a little chihuahua! lots of bark!! no bite I'm liking this

 

[CaptnJack]

as you see here im not the one who said i read the bible AND koran

And yes, I've read the Bible and I like to believe that I understood the majority. I'm not a Christian but I'm open-minded enough to checkout something which has so many others convinced. I've also read the Koran for the same reasons.

.

and if it was my baiting comment you're refering to, i dont have to know the koran to bait ppl into telling the truth, a liar can be off set and made uncomfortable easily, so if we all are going to continue to post things illogically then i'll stop being serious and literal and be more like stoney, post all my sources that are still in researching, or undecided and speak it as truth and absolute and make blind accusations like has happened to me on here.

personally, I don't care for baitng nor do I care when I am trying to be baited against.....thats borderline trolling in my book....have a good day capn.

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

ohhhh....I was wrong.... so I admit it...now what? want a cookie? still doesn't change anything....nice try bro....come harder next time G'day capn haha

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

If being smart means being like you.....I pass, I rather just stay stupid LOL

 

[CaptnJack]

this is fun your like a little chihuahua! lots of bark!! no bite I'm liking this

if you wanna take it to that maturity level ill let you sit and play by yourself down there.

 

[Dr. Greenhorn]

* uhhh* nah, thats allright, I'm done anyway......unsubscribed.... see ya around capn, have a nice day LOL


this is a lame thread anyway......stop trying to keep it alive..... this is just shit that is in other threads and just reworded, thats, all

thats real ingenuity right there buddy

 

[CaptnJack]

didnt feel like sifting other threads, rather start a new one, and you must be a big man, i mean no one was talkin to/about you, what got you to the point of randomly talkin shit idk, sounds pretty stupid to me.

unsubscribe, i really dont care, i dont strive on attention, i started this thread to have good conversation, and it was civil for quite sometime, very civil in fact for a debate. but i can trace it back to a particular poster in which it became more and more hostile, so im not to blame here, i admit, when pushed i get worked up, but if civil im as chill as can be.

 

[CrackerJax]

I've been doing some extensive REsearch with some friends and we happened to stumble across one of the excluded books of the OT Bible......It was originally the story of Cane / Able / the illigetiment Son and How they were tempted by Satan...It's been re written several times by the Catholic Church, and passed off as a fairy tale, to get the young'uns while they were still ripe for the pickins...So I know it's kinda hard to believe in talking animals and all, but you gotta think outside the box.... behold one on the Missing books from the Old Testament


3 lil pigs, I couldn't believe it at first but imo, its the TRUTH

I dunno...Old testament? Doesn't sound KOSHER to me.